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#101 Anghell

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 10:23 PM

I'd think the 4pieces due to iLvl unless you can get the 258set.

My paladin uses 2pieces in 2's and full PVP in 3's.

He's going to use 4once he gets relentless.
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#102 Candypants

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 10:47 PM

Still looking for input on 2x T9.5 (helm/legs) vs 4 piece Relentless.

5% HotR damage and lots of block

OR

more str, more crit, more resil, -1 sec judgements.

-----

I currently use very little block, and decent crit (~35%). However, I've seen people with some block gear consistently getting shield of the righteousness hits that are higher then glyphed avanger's shield hits.

For me avenger shield usually seems like both opener and finisher, and is my hardest hitting ability in my current gear. SotR seems to hit for about the same as HotR with no block gear.



I would say using some block value parts is worth it. Don't over do it. 100 block value gives 117 damage = 20 dps (plus crit rating factor). However there is a soft cap and a hard cap. Going over the soft cap (2.4k) is not worth it. I would aim for the the soft cap at 2.4k if i were a protadin. I've done some tests on my brothers prot pala (access to a lot of pve prot gear) and the burst and dps goes up a lot if you have a few pieces of pve. For example if you go from 1.4k to 2.4k you add about 1.2k damage = 200 dps. With 2.4k BV you will do about 3.4k damage on a hit. Note that you get 30% extra block value from talents and that you can get a meta gem that gives 5% extra block

Let´s take a look what you give up. If you take 2 set bonus from 245 item lvl pve you lose 160 crit rating about 3.5% crit and 17 str and some 70 stamina. You gain about 600 (30 more with meta gem) block value and 53 hit. Im asuming resi and the defensive stats are just as good (in fact defensive stats is better against melees but worse against casters, however you get the nice cheat death bonus from talent, which is GOOD). 600 BV is 702 more damage on shield. 702 damage is about 120 dps (multiplied by crit!). Is 3.5% crit and around 25 str better than 53 hit and 120 dps? I dont think so. 120 dps is probably a 5% increase in overall damage. And if you have access to heroic gear then its even better :). Even the 232 item level set is worth it.

As for the set bonus. Judgement bonus is 10-15% more damage on judgements however this also reduces the number of globals and increases mana cost while not adding any burst. The hammer is doing a much higher portion of your damage than your judgements. Probably at least 3 times more which makes the prot set bonus superior.

Conclusion: more burst and much more damage. Also a LOT more survivability against melees along with the ardent defender proc. There is no reason to not take block value gear over ret gear unless you have reached the soft cap for block value. Ok there is one reason i admit. You lose a lot of crit. It can get dangerously low if you get crazy about block but if you are above 30% you should not hesitate to get the prot gear instead. The loss to stamina is insignificant because you can now make use of ardent defender proc. I would say aim for 25% crit and its fine.

The fact that people do well even without block value just shows how redicilous overpowered prot dps is :).

And next set will be super good. 20% more damage on hammer is SO MUCH WORTH IT! <3

EDIT FIXED SOME MATH
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#103 Nitestrike

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 11:46 PM

Thanks for the explanation.

Strength also adds 1/2 block value or something like that per point? (I've been 80 for about 6 weeks and less then half of that was as prot, so don't really know all the class mechanics)

Seems i'll be going with:
- 2/5 Relentless (Shoulders/Chest)
- 2/5 lvl245 Prot (Helm/Pants)
- PvE gloves or Relentless gloves (Depending on +hit)
- All Str PvP offset

So basically left with finding pieces for Neck, Back, and Ring if anybody has ideas for those slots. I don't have a guild that raids, so I need mostly PuG'able stuff.
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#104 Sym

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 03:48 AM

with that gear setup, you're going to just need to wear the attack power pvp stuff.

if you use pve stuff in your neck/back/ring slots, you're going to be at like 400 resilience. you might do well against melee, but you'll get absolutely wrecked by casters. since wizard cleave and pmr are pretty much the bane of this comp, you're not going to be doing yourself any justice.

$0.02
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#105 Nitestrike

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 04:07 AM

with that gear setup, you're going to just need to wear the attack power pvp stuff.

if you use pve stuff in your neck/back/ring slots, you're going to be at like 400 resilience. you might do well against melee, but you'll get absolutely wrecked by casters. since wizard cleave and pmr are pretty much the bane of this comp, you're not going to be doing yourself any justice.

$0.02


I'm stuck with PvP weapon and PvP shield also, so have some extra resilience there. Probably won't be getting a PvE shield anytime soon when PuG'ing raids as ret >_<

Also isn't Titanium Plating best for shield enchant?

Also I find wizard cleave pretty difficult, though PMR doesn't seem too bad. I've beaten a couple of the highest rating PMR on our BG already. Seems probably 50/50 at worse.

Another question, what % of damage is usually from reckoning? My druid seems to like CC'ing at times, so tree aura isn't always on. Is it worth dropping imp devo aura to get reckoning? I never used devo aura, so bonus armor seems useless.
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#106 Sym

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 06:31 AM

I'm stuck with PvP weapon and PvP shield also, so have some extra resilience there. Probably won't be getting a PvE shield anytime soon when PuG'ing raids as ret >_<

Also isn't Titanium Plating best for shield enchant?

Also I find wizard cleave pretty difficult, though PMR doesn't seem too bad. I've beaten a couple of the highest rating PMR on our BG already. Seems probably 50/50 at worse.

Another question, what % of damage is usually from reckoning? My druid seems to like CC'ing at times, so tree aura isn't always on. Is it worth dropping imp devo aura to get reckoning? I never used devo aura, so bonus armor seems useless.


if you can get the prot pieces, you should be able to get a pve shield. any of them will do. the ilevel 232 one with a str gem is just as good as forlorn barrier, minus a few stamina.

i use 18 stamina because i tank with the same shield, and the pvp survivability is pretty nice too. shield enchant is probably one of those personal preference things, i've seen some prot/rets running with the defense enchant too.

i originally picked up reckoning because it seemed like a fun talent, but i'm starting to think maybe i should drop it. i'm not sure exactly how much it does, but when it does proc it is a decent amount of damage (also, i think the procs stack up SoV so when you have reckoning up you can have full stacks on the target in 3 seconds). i'll get a mod running and see how much it's actually doing for me.

there really aren't many prot/rets out there that are really successful, so a lot of what you're reading is theorycrafting, and just because a highly rated prot/ret says it should be one way doesn't mean that's the only way. there's a lot of wiggle room and room for experimentation, so if you're still questioning or have a theory, go and try it and tell the world what you discovered. i know that when i started, i was pretty much just throwing talent points in talents that sounded good, putting in glyphs that i thought would be good and wearing my ret set with a 1h, and this is sort of how it ended up, but that's not the only way it has to be.
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#107 Ayvix

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 06:45 AM

PvE Helm, Neck, Back, Gloves, Trinkets, Shield, one Ring

575 Resilience, 4900 unbuffed AP
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#108 Sym

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 07:01 AM

PvE Helm, Neck, Back, Gloves, Trinkets, Shield, one Ring

575 Resilience, 4900 unbuffed AP


for me, pretty much this barring a few changes (this is my realistically obtained set, all ilevel 245)

the executioner's vice (neck)
might of the nerub (cloak)
forlorn barrier (shield)
gauntlets of mounting anger (gloves) [you can also use the tier set, but the heroic 10 man ones are better]
bloodshed band (ring)
ring of the violent temperment (ring)
-maybe- death's choice (trinket)

if i get all this, socketed only for set bonuses that give str or crit (and without using any stam colored gems) i'd be at 5k unbuffed AP, 36.5% crit, hit capped, 30.5k unbuffed hp, and 571 resil. [this is without death's choice, because i'll probably never get that]

this season is probably going to be over too early for me to see all of this, and i'm pretty content with my gear right now (although questioning gemming choices recently), so i'll just wait and see how it pans out.
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