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#41 Veet

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 01:55 AM

Prots still go oom, even with divine plea up 100% time I tried it on the ptr. THE UNLIMITED MANA IS A LIE!


You must have played it wrong. I only went oom when I was an idiot and forgot to keep plea up.
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#42 Idgit

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 02:09 AM

Because so many people played enhance shamans before beastcleave won mlg.


Win mlg with a prot paladin and I'll be sold too.
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#43

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 02:35 AM

a lot of comps aren't as effective in s5 gear
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#44 Ayvix

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 07:24 AM

two piece T9 legs and helm


yeah so righteous veng. can crit and for the haste/expertise right
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#45 Lanthanum

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:18 AM

yeah so righteous veng. can crit and for the haste/expertise right


Are you retarded? The PROT set pieces.
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#46 Nitestrike

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:46 AM

Replaced my DK with my alt paladin on my 3s team less then a month after hitting 80. Games are so much easier, even with far worse gear. Not to mention I played as prot for less then a week, so some abilities aren't binded in the best spots.

The feel of prot feels very similar to a 3.1 frost DK stuck in frost presence in terms of burst and swapping capability. However, you do get a lot of extra utility.
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#47 Felic

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:26 AM

A Comparison of Ret vs. Prot/Ret based on rated 2v2 on the PTR.

I used full Relentless gear on Ret with a few offpieces for hit. For Prot/Ret I used 2 piece tier 9 (legs and helm) both have very high Shield Block Value, the rest of the gear was mostly Relentless, and Strength offpieces in all slots. The stats were very close, both have similar AP and SP, Prot has more Stam, 2600 Shield Block Value, as well as defense and some avoidance stats. Ret had slightly more crit.


When you compared the two specs they basically play the same with very similar abilities. I'll compare the abilities:

Shield of Righteousness (SR) vs. Crusader Strike (CS) - Both short cooldown single target damage, CS has a lower cooldown but SR does way more damage and does holy damage.

Hammer of Righteousness (HR) vs. Divine Storm (DS) - Both AOE damage, DS has a much longer cooldown and does less damage because HR is all holy damage.

Prot Judgments vs. Ret Judgments - Rets have an edge on damage and cooldown. Rets also have higher white hits and seal procs.

Avenger's Shield (AS) vs. AoW Exorcism - 30 second cooldown, instant, ranged attack that silences and snares or a 15 second cooldown, instant, ranged attack. AS hits way harder.

There are subtle differences between the two playstyles, Ret has Divine Purpose, Art of War, and is able to throw out more heals. Prot has more survivability, more offensive utility, and arguably more damage.

When you look at the big picture, the three big drawbacks to Ret are lack of snare, lack of interrupt, and lack of healing debuff. Prot makes up for two of these with just 1 ability. Prot damage is also entirely Holy, which completely negates armor and BoPs.

Possible bias and confounding factors. The PTR is extremely laggy, there were times when I could not hit targets that were right in front of me due to lag. This biases Prot because of the snare and lower CD stuns which allowed for more damage time on targets.

Conclusion / TLDR: Prot/Ret and Ret have similar playstyles, with Prot possessing more survivability, more offensive utility and more damage.


Ret has alot more crit on judgements, wings ignoring armor, crit on hammer of wrath, vengeance, breaks stun, repentance. Crit = Burst. So isnt THAT bad.
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:o i didnt c wat u did thar, could you explain for us dumb ppl?


#48 Whillwinz

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 03:40 PM

Prot paladin isn't anywhere close to being a tank like prot warrior is. For all practical purposes prot paladin has the same survivability as ret paladin, just in different ways. It's basically instant heal+stun removal vs 10% less damage taken. OMG 10% LESS DAMAGE TAKEN IS LIKE TOTAL TANK MODE GUYS. OH AND I FIGHT AGAINST MELEE ON THE PTR THAT ATTACK FROM THE FRONT.

Damage-wise, you do less judgement dmg, WAY less crit on everything, you are NOT going to crit jack shit against max resil'd players. THAT is the main difference between prot warrior and prot paladin, at least prot warriors can crit those shield slams fairly often due to talents.

So yes, against morons on the PTR prot paladin shines, grats.
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#49 Omicamacho

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 04:29 PM

Prot is better then ret in almost every way, get over it. Ret has its edges over prot(Freedom out of stun mainly) And thats about it. If geared correctly. prot will do FAR more damage, gives u much more offensive utility. and far more survivality through many talents. Its not just 10 dmg reduction.

Please know what your talking about before you attempt to comment on it.
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2750 S6 #2 Ret:paladin::deathknight::druid:In the world Rampage US

Shadowpriets are like ret pallies with cast bars


#50 Oliria

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 04:31 PM

I don't think a whole lot of people in this thread has actually played or played with a prot paladin. It's not like they're greatly overpowered, but compared to ret their survivability is insane. Their damage output is almost the same as ret, and they have better cc in silence and stun!

I've even been told by some idiot (Achuu) that I shouldn't post if I don't play a prot paladin, we'll I for one actually play together with a prot paladin, who played ret with me all of S6. The difference in survivability is huge, the damage is about the same.¨

There a very few teams with prot paladins, they're good. We are doing good aswell, despite the fact our paladin has never played prot, and doesn't do PvE (PvP ret gear is fine). I won't say they're better than ret paladins, depends on the team. I feel that war/protdps/druid is better for us than war/ret/druid was. We had so many troubles with wizardcleaves/rmps/Rls. With protdps we stand a chance against these setups.
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#51 Ayvix

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 05:33 PM

OMG 10% LESS DAMAGE TAKEN IS LIKE TOTAL TANK MODE GUYS.


3% from Glyph of Divine Plea
6% from Righteous Fury
3% for everyone on my team from Blessing of Sanctuary
3% from Shield of the Templar

6% spell damage from Guarded by the Light

Ardent Defender, Holy Shield, Divine Guardian
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#52 Sym

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 05:36 PM

I don't think a whole lot of people in this thread has actually played or played with a prot paladin. It's not like they're greatly overpowered, but compared to ret their survivability is insane. Their damage output is almost the same as ret, and they have better cc in silence and stun!

I've even been told by some idiot (Achuu) that I shouldn't post if I don't play a prot paladin, we'll I for one actually play together with a prot paladin, who played ret with me all of S6. The difference in survivability is huge, the damage is about the same.¨

There a very few teams with prot paladins, they're good. We are doing good aswell, despite the fact our paladin has never played prot, and doesn't do PvE (PvP ret gear is fine). I won't say they're better than ret paladins, depends on the team. I feel that war/protdps/druid is better for us than war/ret/druid was. We had so many troubles with wizardcleaves/rmps/Rls. With protdps we stand a chance against these setups.


the survivability isn't insane but it's certainly better than ret. killing a good prot paladin is akin to killing a good DK: sure, you can do it, but why would you do that when he's the hardest person to kill on the team? when i specced from ret to prot, i became the last person targeted from the first.

i don't think prot has better damage, although its damage is certainly high. ret has better sustained damage, and decent burst, but that doesn't matter in WoTLK. health bars are more like light switches rather than a match of tug of war now, so the most important thing is burst. combined with prots respectable sustained damage, it's pretty potent.
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#53 Ayvix

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 05:47 PM

killing a good prot paladin is akin to killing a good DK: sure, you can do it, but why would you do that when he's the hardest person to kill on the team?


While I agree that I'm definitely the least common target, I disagree about your DK analogy.

DK's are squishy
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#54 Bio

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 06:02 PM

I appreciate the sarcasm, you apparently stopped reading the thread and ignored my posts afterward.

There aren't many Prot paladins because it is still on the verge of becoming FOTM, not to mention it does require a few PVE pieces to be really good. Simply put, the masses don't know about it yet.



I never claimed it shouldn't be viable in arena, I'm pointing out that it does a better job at doing what Ret is intended to do.

As for only 1 survivability talent, you are flat out wrong.

Here is a list of talents that increase survivability:

Divine Guardian - Extra Sacred shield absorption
Toughness - 10% extra armor
Improved Devotion Aura - Armor and increased healing
Blessing of Sanctuary - 3% damage reduction
Sacred Duty - 8% extra stamina
Ardent Defender - Damage reduction and a cheat death
Holy Shield - Blocking
Combat Expertise - 6% extra stamina
Guarded by the Light - 6% spell damage reduction
Shield of the Templar - 3% damage reduction


I would really like to thank you for your in depth posts, I really appreciate it and their is not enough of it anymore on AJ.
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Priest Retired from lawlcraft.

#55 Idgit

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 07:59 PM

3% from Glyph of Divine Plea
6% from Righteous Fury
3% for everyone on my team from Blessing of Sanctuary(While they lose benefits provided by other Blessings)
3% from Shield of the Templar

6% spell damage from Guarded by the Light<-4% hit from Divine Favor

Ardent Defender, Holy Shield, Divine Guardian


Stop listing things that aren't prot exclusive.


Prot is better then ret in almost every way, get over it. Ret has its edges over prot(Freedom out of stun mainly) And thats about it. If geared correctly. prot will do FAR more damage, gives u much more offensive utility. and far more survivality through many talents. Its not just 10 dmg reduction.


http://www.wowarmory...543&b=Bloodlust
http://www.wowarmory...571&b=Bloodlust

That's the first win and first loss I clicked on your armory. Your damage doesn't look very OP compared to everyone else. Esp. you consider that you're the only DPS without an MS effect.

Please know what your talking about before you attempt to comment on it.


Let me just reiterate that I think prot is a great spec. I just don't think it trumps ret by as much as people are making it out to be and I am trying to prove that it isn't some amazing dps/tank overpowered killing machine.
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#56 Idgit

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:12 PM

I've even been told by some idiot (Achuu)


I'm not going to touch this one. A glance at your profile says it all.
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#57 Nitestrike

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:05 PM

the survivability isn't insane but it's certainly better than ret. killing a good prot paladin is akin to killing a good DK: sure, you can do it, but why would you do that when he's the hardest person to kill on the team? when i specced from ret to prot, i became the last person targeted from the first.


DK is a top priority target in msot teams actually. Back in S5 we were fairly durable, but these days DKs get trained quite a bit.

Aside from that, after swapping from my full furious S6 BIS +relent offset DK to a newly leveled prot-DPS paladin, we did as well on my first day playing it in 3s instead of my DK.

I havn't tried ret much, since I'd get trained and killed every game with my gear. However I can say that prot burst output is pretty ridiculous, even though I only have like 3.5k AP in the 2300s bracket.

Crit rate isn't bad either, though even with no crits an opening 2 sec is still like 9-10k damage from just avengers shield + rockets/death. A crit is pretty much insta gib assuming the warrior is at the target.

The other funny thing is I can blow wings right when entering combat, knowing i'm still the worse target for them. Rets get trained pretty hard for using wings out the gate >_<
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#58 Oliria

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 11:20 PM

I'm not going to touch this one. A glance at your profile says it all.


I play with a protret so I comment on this post. If you think you're somehow more entitled to comment than me, please tell me!

For all I can see you're just an idiot telling me to stop posting about my own setup.
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#59 Ayvix

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 06:26 AM

Stop listing things that aren't prot exclusive.


Yeah, lots of Ret Pallies run Glyph of Divine Plea
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#60 Idgit

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 06:48 AM

They'd be pretty dumb if they did.
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