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Strategies
Unholy Death Knight/Resto Shaman
Author
  | Ricé Mal'Ganis US-Stormstrike |
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General Information
Updated: 6/12/09: 3.1 update.
Welcome to Rice's guide to 2v2 Unholy Death Knight/Resto Shaman. I will be exploring the different strategies and techniques used by this composition to succeed in the arena ladder from the Shaman's point of view. All of the content in this guide is completely original, that is, we did not copy anybody else's tricks (on purpose, anyway).
So you're probably wondering why you should play this comp if you're a Shaman or DK, or wondering why you should fear this comp if you're not one of those two classes. Well, like every comp in 2v2, it definitely has its strengths and weaknesses.
Before we get into game play details, we'll need to take a look at what kind of spec and gear you need to have.
NOTE: This guide assumes you have *some* arena experience. If you are just starting out, this may be slightly advanced for you, but feel free to ask questions about anything you don't understand.
Welcome to Rice's guide to 2v2 Unholy Death Knight/Resto Shaman. I will be exploring the different strategies and techniques used by this composition to succeed in the arena ladder from the Shaman's point of view. All of the content in this guide is completely original, that is, we did not copy anybody else's tricks (on purpose, anyway).
So you're probably wondering why you should play this comp if you're a Shaman or DK, or wondering why you should fear this comp if you're not one of those two classes. Well, like every comp in 2v2, it definitely has its strengths and weaknesses.
Before we get into game play details, we'll need to take a look at what kind of spec and gear you need to have.
NOTE: This guide assumes you have *some* arena experience. If you are just starting out, this may be slightly advanced for you, but feel free to ask questions about anything you don't understand.
Builds
Shaman
With 3.1 upon us, nothing has really changed as far as specs go.
Personally, I feel that the 8/x/x spec is not worth it. You basically spend 8 talent points for 6% more hp. Those 8 talent points can be better spent on other things.
I am a fan of the 0/18/53 spec. Really, any variation of the standard 0/1x/5y spec will work, as long as you have the basic required talents. There is some leeway in different variants of the PvP resto spec, but the differences are so minute (except toughness) that it really doesn't matter too much.
The main variant is toughness, but ever since its conception back in Burning Crusade, I just don't think it's worth a 5 point investment for what it brings. The biggest thing that it helps with is reducing chains of ice's initial slow to 70%. Other than that, warriors and rogues will still have very little trouble staying on you. The 10% stamina helps if you're undergeared but is otherwise too inefficient of an investment.
My Spec: http://www.wowdb.com/talent.aspx?id=7#f27e5fef20ef2ebe3cebfe3be3fe6:
Personally, I feel that the 8/x/x spec is not worth it. You basically spend 8 talent points for 6% more hp. Those 8 talent points can be better spent on other things.
I am a fan of the 0/18/53 spec. Really, any variation of the standard 0/1x/5y spec will work, as long as you have the basic required talents. There is some leeway in different variants of the PvP resto spec, but the differences are so minute (except toughness) that it really doesn't matter too much.
The main variant is toughness, but ever since its conception back in Burning Crusade, I just don't think it's worth a 5 point investment for what it brings. The biggest thing that it helps with is reducing chains of ice's initial slow to 70%. Other than that, warriors and rogues will still have very little trouble staying on you. The 10% stamina helps if you're undergeared but is otherwise too inefficient of an investment.
My Spec: http://www.wowdb.com/talent.aspx?id=7#f27e5fef20ef2ebe3cebfe3be3fe6:
Gear
Shaman
Crit or mp5?
Because your partner is a DK, you will have many, many opportunities to drink due to chains of ice. This means that you should go for the crit gear ("of dominance"). I have not regretted going crit from the start. With that being said, crit will also obviously boost your healing throughput as well as proc ancestral healing more often. If you're worried about ancestral awakening making you sit up from heal-drinking, don't. It only happens if you crit heal yourself right before sitting down. It will not make you stand if you crit heal your partner. With that being said, always go into arena with a LOT of water in your bags (60-100 minimum)
There have been hints that mp5 gear may receive a buff in an upcoming patch, so investing in a few mp5 pieces may not be a bad idea. However, I will still be sporting mostly crit, unless the buff is very good. This comp mainly relies on high burst to kill an opponent, not outlasting (some comps require outlasting though). You want to spend as little time healing as possible and instead use that time assisting your partner or dropping totems. The only way to do that is to get a lot of crit heals so you spend more globals doing other things.
What about hit?
Before you start stacking too much crit, you need to make sure you have at LEAST 4% spell hit (105 rating for non-draenei, ~79 rating for draenei). This allows you to hit the soft PvP cap, which means under most circumstances, none of your offensive abilities will miss. This is very vital for several reasons. First of all, since Shamans have Hex, it is imperative that this ability does not miss because of its 45 second cooldown (war stomp is also affected if you're a tauren like me!). I remember one specific game where we lost because both my hex and my war stomp missed the same rogue, and I have learned my lesson since. Second of all, you do not want to miss your damage spells when you burst an opponent down for a kill attempt! Assisted burst from the shaman is very critical, and is one of the strong points of this composition.
You may have noticed from my armory that I have opted for 6% spell hit. I have an extra 2% spell hit to negate night elf, tauren, and blood elf racials. It's a good investment if you really hate seeing "miss" on hexes and shocks. I absolutely refuse to play with less than 6% hit. Note, however, that -hit% talents cannot be negated by stacking more hit. 6% is the absolute max you should use.
So what do you wear?
I plan to wear 4 piece mail (crit) set gear and 1 piece ringmail (mp5) set gear. I wear both pvp rings, the spell hit pvp necklace and cloak, and every other piece has crit. I gem mostly for resilience and spell power, but I make sure to make up the hit deficit from gear with hit gems. However, gemming for stamina is always a good idea if your health is not up to par.
Enchants
As for enchants, I opted for the spell power/resilience head and shoulder from Wintergrasp. All other enchants are fairly standard spell power enchants and all of the enchants will of course vary depending on your professions.
The best in slot for weapon is obviously Val'Anyr. Second best would be Constellus or Furious Mageblade or Salvation (Aesuga and Guiding Star are OK too). For shields, you want to either use Wisdom's Hold, PvP shield, or maybe Ice Layered Barrier (Voice of Reason is good too). The PvP totem is also a must.
There are a lot of options as to what trinket combinations you can use. Most people will probably opt for a combination of Medallion of the Horde/Alliance with a Battlemaster's trinket or a PvE trinket. I use Living Ice Crystals from Malygos 25 and probably will continue to use it until Icecrown. Other great PvE trinkets include Pandora's Plea, Soul of the Dead, Sif's Rememberance, and Scale of Fates to name a few. In general, anything with mana return, spell power, and/or intellect will make for a good PvP trinket.
You can always opt for a Platinum Disk / Titan-Forged Rune combination if you don't have enough honor or don't raid. If you are very low on resilience you can go Platinum Disk/Medallion.
Resilience... how much is enough?
In the old versions of my guide, I said that you only needed 800+ to be successful. Not anymore. Unlike other healers, shamans need to stack as much resilience and stamina as humanly possible. There is very little room for using PvE gear outside of weapon/shield/trinket. I would say you now need at least 1000+ resilience to be a formidable healer, but I honestly feel that not even getting resilience capped (1200+) would make a difference in some situations. In particular, melee classes with lvl 239 weapons will destroy you if you are not geared to the teeth.
Glyphs
There is no more debating on what the best PvP healing glyphs are. Lesser Healing Wave, Earth Shield, and Stoneclaw Totem are the only ones you should ever consider. None of the other glyphs are even close.
Keep in mind this is not recommended only for Shaman/DK, I recommend these for ALL Shamans in ALL brackets of arena.
You need to have a focus frame with a focus cast bar. This is for the opposing healer or mage/warlock. Any standard unit frame mod should have this; I personally use x-perl, but other mods like pitbull or AG unit frames work fine too. Make the focus cast bar gigantic.
You need to have a spell alerter mod. The best one I've found is Kollektiv's spellalerter mod (fitting name). The only downside is that you have to add a lot of definitions to its list because it's missing some critical spells, namely things like divine shield and other miscellaneous cooldowns. I think I've at least doubled the original definition list in size - I put just about everything in there.
You need to have a mod that shows totems and their timers, as well as a mod that shows your shield charges. My personal favorite is totemtimers. It'll show the totems' durations, when totems pulse, and shield charges all at the same time. It will also alert you when totems and shields are destroyed or faded.
You need to have an announcer for grounding totem and shocks. This is to help relay the information with your teammates so you can better coordinate your abilities. Shaman friend is a good candidate.
You need to have either gladius or proximo to keep tabs on the other team's health, mana, and cooldowns.
Other helpful addons that I use include Cooldown Timers 3, Afflicted 3, and SCT.
Battlecruiser operational!
So you're ready to queue up for some arena now. What can you expect to meet, and how can you deal with the different challenges that come to pass? I will now explore the actual gameplay mechanics against the popular setups in 2v2.
Here is some insight from my partner's perspective:
As always, I'll take requests on comps not covered, provided that I have enough experience against them (do not ask for something weird like hunter/enh shaman).
Because your partner is a DK, you will have many, many opportunities to drink due to chains of ice. This means that you should go for the crit gear ("of dominance"). I have not regretted going crit from the start. With that being said, crit will also obviously boost your healing throughput as well as proc ancestral healing more often. If you're worried about ancestral awakening making you sit up from heal-drinking, don't. It only happens if you crit heal yourself right before sitting down. It will not make you stand if you crit heal your partner. With that being said, always go into arena with a LOT of water in your bags (60-100 minimum)
There have been hints that mp5 gear may receive a buff in an upcoming patch, so investing in a few mp5 pieces may not be a bad idea. However, I will still be sporting mostly crit, unless the buff is very good. This comp mainly relies on high burst to kill an opponent, not outlasting (some comps require outlasting though). You want to spend as little time healing as possible and instead use that time assisting your partner or dropping totems. The only way to do that is to get a lot of crit heals so you spend more globals doing other things.
What about hit?
Before you start stacking too much crit, you need to make sure you have at LEAST 4% spell hit (105 rating for non-draenei, ~79 rating for draenei). This allows you to hit the soft PvP cap, which means under most circumstances, none of your offensive abilities will miss. This is very vital for several reasons. First of all, since Shamans have Hex, it is imperative that this ability does not miss because of its 45 second cooldown (war stomp is also affected if you're a tauren like me!). I remember one specific game where we lost because both my hex and my war stomp missed the same rogue, and I have learned my lesson since. Second of all, you do not want to miss your damage spells when you burst an opponent down for a kill attempt! Assisted burst from the shaman is very critical, and is one of the strong points of this composition.
You may have noticed from my armory that I have opted for 6% spell hit. I have an extra 2% spell hit to negate night elf, tauren, and blood elf racials. It's a good investment if you really hate seeing "miss" on hexes and shocks. I absolutely refuse to play with less than 6% hit. Note, however, that -hit% talents cannot be negated by stacking more hit. 6% is the absolute max you should use.
So what do you wear?
I plan to wear 4 piece mail (crit) set gear and 1 piece ringmail (mp5) set gear. I wear both pvp rings, the spell hit pvp necklace and cloak, and every other piece has crit. I gem mostly for resilience and spell power, but I make sure to make up the hit deficit from gear with hit gems. However, gemming for stamina is always a good idea if your health is not up to par.
Enchants
As for enchants, I opted for the spell power/resilience head and shoulder from Wintergrasp. All other enchants are fairly standard spell power enchants and all of the enchants will of course vary depending on your professions.
The best in slot for weapon is obviously Val'Anyr. Second best would be Constellus or Furious Mageblade or Salvation (Aesuga and Guiding Star are OK too). For shields, you want to either use Wisdom's Hold, PvP shield, or maybe Ice Layered Barrier (Voice of Reason is good too). The PvP totem is also a must.
There are a lot of options as to what trinket combinations you can use. Most people will probably opt for a combination of Medallion of the Horde/Alliance with a Battlemaster's trinket or a PvE trinket. I use Living Ice Crystals from Malygos 25 and probably will continue to use it until Icecrown. Other great PvE trinkets include Pandora's Plea, Soul of the Dead, Sif's Rememberance, and Scale of Fates to name a few. In general, anything with mana return, spell power, and/or intellect will make for a good PvP trinket.
You can always opt for a Platinum Disk / Titan-Forged Rune combination if you don't have enough honor or don't raid. If you are very low on resilience you can go Platinum Disk/Medallion.
Resilience... how much is enough?
In the old versions of my guide, I said that you only needed 800+ to be successful. Not anymore. Unlike other healers, shamans need to stack as much resilience and stamina as humanly possible. There is very little room for using PvE gear outside of weapon/shield/trinket. I would say you now need at least 1000+ resilience to be a formidable healer, but I honestly feel that not even getting resilience capped (1200+) would make a difference in some situations. In particular, melee classes with lvl 239 weapons will destroy you if you are not geared to the teeth.
Glyphs
There is no more debating on what the best PvP healing glyphs are. Lesser Healing Wave, Earth Shield, and Stoneclaw Totem are the only ones you should ever consider. None of the other glyphs are even close.
Addons
Keep in mind this is not recommended only for Shaman/DK, I recommend these for ALL Shamans in ALL brackets of arena.
You need to have a focus frame with a focus cast bar. This is for the opposing healer or mage/warlock. Any standard unit frame mod should have this; I personally use x-perl, but other mods like pitbull or AG unit frames work fine too. Make the focus cast bar gigantic.
You need to have a spell alerter mod. The best one I've found is Kollektiv's spellalerter mod (fitting name). The only downside is that you have to add a lot of definitions to its list because it's missing some critical spells, namely things like divine shield and other miscellaneous cooldowns. I think I've at least doubled the original definition list in size - I put just about everything in there.
You need to have a mod that shows totems and their timers, as well as a mod that shows your shield charges. My personal favorite is totemtimers. It'll show the totems' durations, when totems pulse, and shield charges all at the same time. It will also alert you when totems and shields are destroyed or faded.
You need to have an announcer for grounding totem and shocks. This is to help relay the information with your teammates so you can better coordinate your abilities. Shaman friend is a good candidate.
You need to have either gladius or proximo to keep tabs on the other team's health, mana, and cooldowns.
Other helpful addons that I use include Cooldown Timers 3, Afflicted 3, and SCT.
Battlecruiser operational!
So you're ready to queue up for some arena now. What can you expect to meet, and how can you deal with the different challenges that come to pass? I will now explore the actual gameplay mechanics against the popular setups in 2v2.
Here is some insight from my partner's perspective:
DK Perspective:
| Basically as the DK in this setup you have three rules to live by: 1.) Protect your healer 2.) PRESSURE 3.) Capitalize off mistakes with a strangulate kill The first rule is simple. DG just as your healer goes around a corner to give him LOS. Spam chains on people going for him. Keep BB up even you even suspect the dps wants to go for him. Pulling melee (NOT FERALS) to the lower level in Sewers is another way to do this. Second rule is very vague, but since each comp is different, pressure means different things. For us, it usually means just raw damage output. Force the healer to heal, not go offensive. You should have all dots up on both targets at all times. Drag dps towards their healer if they're out of range (just don't range/los your healer!). The more damage you deal, the more they have to heal. The more they have to heal, the less other stuff they can do. The less other stuff they can do, the more freedom your healer has to drink/do what he needs to do to help you win. Against some comps, instead of peeling, insane pressure on the healer to force the dps to resort to peeling rather than dps can be an effective strategy. Use AMS offensively, not defensively. You see a feral pop into caster to cast? Use it. He's just wasted 3-4 seconds and let your Shaman top off while accomplishing nothing on you. He's now 3 seconds behind you. It's the little things like this that can make or break games. Finding different ways to do this against different comps is what wins games. Pressure leads opposing teams to make mistakes, which leads to rule number 3. Capitalize on mistakes. There are so many games that we shouldn't win that we do. One of the best things to do is pressure a team hard with diseases ticking. The SECOND you see the healer dip below 60% or so, gargoyle and make a quick switch to him, mind freezing the current heal and call it out on vent. Follow it with a pet stun about 2.5 seconds in. Then Strangulate. Your Shaman should have lusted on his way over, and throw a burst spell. Pop Empower Rune Weapon and just lay into the healer, using DG if they get out of range. Most times, a healer will either be forced to blow every cooldown and barely live, or they get so surprised they simply die. There are other ways to capitalize on mistakes. If a rogue follows your Shaman behind a pillar, pet stun him and wreck him while he's out of LOS of his healer. You'd be surprised how many players even up to the top 10 teams will fall for this occasionally. You really can't PLAN on teams making mistakes, but don't be afraid to make them pay when you see something. Be vocal and call it out. |
Matchups
Comments: | |
|---|---|
 Neera | Feb 10, 2009 - 12:30 PM (HideShow) |
| cool :) | |
 Carlor | Feb 10, 2009 - 2:37 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey guys I'm not an avid arena player, I believe you should only arena with someone you can clearly communicate with and are basically tight friends. I have a Resto Shammy pal that did 2s with me, We were put up against some other Healer / DPS combos and had such a great time smashing them, but then we got some double dps that no matter how hard I tried to keep them off him with his low resilience, he would get destroyed and he became discouraged. After reading this extremely well laid out strategy I have new hope for it and am going to propose working as much with him as possible to get him motivated to run it again. I like how from the shaman's standpoint your so optimistic about being confident in a DK sustaining himself and managing to keep you clear enough to even sit and drink. Maybe there are some things I need to polish on to defend my healer better but as long as a competent team can say its possible I can work on my game to make it happen. The ONLY thing I didn't understand was in the DKs perspective he said "Keep BB up even you even suspect the dps wants to go for him. Pulling melee (NOT FERALS) to the lower level in Sewers is another way to do this." there were a couple things I did not understand about this statement, namely what he means by BB. I'm basically a pretty avid full time DK tank, so I'm pretty familiar with the class, more so than most I would say, but the only thing I can think that BB would mean is Blood boil, and whatever it does why he suggests against using the strategy against ferals. Just a couple things I wanted a little more elaboration on, other than that I love the confidence you guys have in the comp, I don't like dps comps, it feels like they lack so much excitement that you find when you have some epic healer battles | |
 Gengar | Feb 10, 2009 - 2:56 PM (HideShow) |
| Rice is hot | |
 Kugel | Feb 10, 2009 - 4:11 PM (HideShow) |
| Interesting. I just transfered off your BG a few days ago, I ran Mage / DK to 2100+. But I started Resto Shaman/DK a few days ago, haven't had too much play time yet, but we're 1930 atm. Not too bad imo, but this guide is convienent. I suggest to help make your guide more helpful, you add in some info on DKS, like your partners spec, and why he has certain gear/talents, espically if its for your comp specifically. Not that I need to read it, but I do think it would make it a better guide. I know its a Shaman PoV, but a little more on the DK, can help the Shamans reading this. Thanks for a great guide, and gratz on Shaman/DK rating you have. Stormstrike is actually decent imo. Takecare man. | |
 Safeword | Feb 10, 2009 - 4:52 PM (HideShow) |
| A very nice guide. Thxverymuch. | |
 Eurin | Feb 10, 2009 - 5:17 PM (HideShow) |
| Hai ricey, i personally favor the mana tide over the crit but eh, what doo yoou do against pally/hunt, sham/hunt? and there is a very small difference in resil from 800-1000. or at least from what ive noticed...hmm and goddamn you for having that trinket. | |
| Ricé | Feb 11, 2009 - 2:40 AM (HideShow) |
| I will be updating sometime this weekend hopefully. Probably will add warrior/healer and hunter/healer strategies, although I'm afraid that I don't have as much to say since we have a lot of trouble against them and generally consider them counter-comps. Thanks for all the support so far. PS: Carlor, he is talking about the glyph of blood boil, which slows the enemy by 50% so it's a good kiting tool. | |
| Ricé | Feb 11, 2009 - 8:16 PM (HideShow) |
| Not much to write on double rogue... Basically just lust and spamheal yourself while avoiding kicks as much as possible. No special tricks are really needed. | |
  Xonk | Feb 11, 2009 - 10:11 PM (HideShow) |
| Rice is a beast | |
 Shizlawlz | Feb 12, 2009 - 1:10 AM (HideShow) |
| Lawl, thanks for all teh info rice! It's really needed within us fellow shamans. Even if we are two different factions. :D | |
 Chilled | Feb 12, 2009 - 9:28 AM (HideShow) |
| @carlor i think the reason the guide mentions not to grip ferals is because dk's don't have much to stop them besides a ghoul stun. ferals can shift out of slows, so if you death grip him to the sewers the feral will just run away back into the fight faster than you, and you pretty much screw yourself over! @rice as my shaman partner and i have gotten higher in ratings, i (dk) am starting to get focused more and more. i am currently running with a lot of pve gear and about 350 resil. how much resil do you think is optimal with a shaman healer? also, can you give your opinion on warrior/holy pally and feral/rogue? these are two of the tougher encounters we've had | |
| Shizlawlz | Feb 12, 2009 - 12:21 PM (HideShow) |
| It all depends on your spec imo. If you're getting focused, spec like Trium and use MoB as your trump card to get your healer out of combat to drink. Even if you are getting focused between MoB and rune taps / AMS, you shouldnt die with your healer drinking constantly. | |
| Ricé | Feb 12, 2009 - 5:13 PM (HideShow) |
| Chilled: My partner wears somewhere around 550 I think, perhaps higher. You will need more resilience because you want the other team to attack you, not your partner. I'm not sure how high he is aiming for, but what he has right now is quite adequate. I'll be adding warrior/healer the next update, as well as non-mage rogue double DPS, most likely. Sadly though, don't expect too much to be added because I don't really have much to say since they destroy us quite easily. | |
 Maraiko | Feb 12, 2009 - 6:32 PM (HideShow) |
| Just a question, why do you rather get 5 points in Tidal mastery instead of thundering strikes? Tidal mastery won't give you bonus to lava burst + flame shock. And if get only 3 points in tidal mastery you can still get the points in deep resto. | |
| Ricé | Feb 13, 2009 - 4:09 AM (HideShow) |
| Probably because I'm bad and totally didn't notice it. Thanks, I'll be changing my spec :P | |
| Daliuxas | Feb 13, 2009 - 12:23 PM (HideShow) |
| Ok first of all , finally rShaman PoV guide with a good comp.Second if I am not raiding (can not) and I can't do arenas at the moment because of my gear , can my FoK (trinket) still be useful?I kind of found situations when I get my behind saved because of that buff appearing once in a while.And third , you mentioned AGAIN a raid shield Voice of Reason or Deadly Gladiator's barrier which are both strict to me.Can Protective Barricade of Light still be good enough to stay alive in the arenas?And finnaly , I can't get Living Ice Crystals , which gives you also 43 mp5.This means if I keep my whole gear for crit (except 2/5 ringmail for more ressi) will I feel the difference without that mp5 regen?Is it enough to have 140 mana regen(unbuffed).Thanks for the answers =] | |
| Pomppupallo | Feb 13, 2009 - 3:22 PM (HideShow) |
| I am playing this same comp at around 2.2k~ rating and we have a LOT of trouble against paladin warlock teams. do you have any ideas to share what would be best way to beat them. | |
| Dihybrid | Feb 13, 2009 - 4:01 PM (HideShow) |
| Sit on the warlock, save Garg/Empower Rune Wep for when the paladin no longer has bubble/trinket. Take these away from the paladin by hex, then hex -> silence for the bubble. Keep spreading diseases and if u get the pet low, switch and try to nuke it though this doesn't work often. Mainly just go for the lock u can outlast them. If the shaman gets feared pop CD's at smart time. Other things: Sacrifice pet for hp, don't bother healing it all that much either. The pally shouldn't be able to drink that much but if he does attempt to drink either start nuking the warlock or send the pet/ DnD / shock him. It will be a long game, most likely going to be rough if the other team is really good but it can be done. | |
 Bââl | Feb 13, 2009 - 6:34 PM (HideShow) |
| What`s your tactic against Druid / WL ? pls give me a tipp :) | |
 Shampoo | Feb 13, 2009 - 7:42 PM (HideShow) |
| Requesting strategy for Mage/Priest and SurvHunter/Hpally please >.< | |
| AHungryBear | Feb 14, 2009 - 3:08 AM (HideShow) |
| Hey I'm a shaman running really low resil (around 400) and my trying to get gear I'm wondering whether I should drop points places to pick up toughness to avoid dying. | |
| Celtur | Feb 14, 2009 - 8:38 AM (HideShow) |
| Anyone could check out my spec and give their oppinion? Ive never seen anyone carry my spec ever.. Tho it got me to 2.2k very easy.. going for 2.5k next week | |
| Pomppupallo | Feb 14, 2009 - 4:08 PM (HideShow) |
| Against Druid/WL just zerg druid. It's easy fight for us atleast :p | |
| Venida | Feb 14, 2009 - 9:33 PM (HideShow) |
| There is one thing in your spec that can be improved... a little :) Move 2 points from Tidal Mastery to Thundering Strikes. (Trades 2% Healing / Lightning Crit for 2% healing / shock / lightning and melee crit). Great guide btw :D | |
 ßien | Feb 15, 2009 - 5:26 AM (HideShow) |
| How do you beat Surv hunter / Resto druid? | |
| Ventura | Feb 15, 2009 - 6:00 PM (HideShow) |
| There are three different versions of resists.(sind 3.0) 1)miss Your miss chance is 4%, you can counter this with +hit, since there are 3 races that have nature resist, you should aim for 6% hit. 2)Resist There are two different versions of "resist". stacking spell resistens increases your chance to resist. (mage armor, frost aura, totems etc.) Stacking spell penetration counters this. 3) resist no.2 This is the resist, that is provided by dispel resist talents. You cant lower the chance. Hit reduces the chance to "miss" Spell penetration reduces the chance your spells get resisted because of specific Resistance (fire,frost,shadow,nature,arcane resistance) There is nothing you can do about dispel resistance. I might be wrong, but i dont think so :> | |
| Ricé | Feb 16, 2009 - 4:47 AM (HideShow) |
| Hungrybear, no, toughness is pretty garbage and a lot of damage is now magic, so you just need to grind more honor. Venida, I already changed my spec to that and will update it next time. Ventura, I think you may be right now that the spell resist system got moved to hit. I'll be changing that the next time I update. Thanks. And to everyone who is requesting strategies: I'll be updating strats for warrior/healer and hunter/healer next time. I'll probably save warlock for later since I definitely do not have a lot of experience playing against them in 2's for obvious reasons. Thanks for all the replies and all the people that came to talk to me on my server, it really means a lot to me. | |
| Iownall | Feb 16, 2009 - 5:39 PM (HideShow) |
| Rice, would you say your a more offensive or defensive player. Sometimes i'm torn between letting my dk pwn face on his own and just tossing hex and some interrupts trying to be mana efficient; vs flameshock, lavaburst, spam purge... mana drops much faster this way. (Don't always get the outcome you wan't & now your at 30% mana and your dk is 60% health.)I understand this is a very situational question, but would you say as a sham we should always think to be offensive or defensive? | |
| Ricé | Feb 16, 2009 - 11:44 PM (HideShow) |
| Most of the time I'm a pretty defensive player. I only go offensive when my DK is ready for a kill attempt. This varies a lot depending on the comp you're facing. On easier comps you should go a bit more offensively, and on tougher comps you want to play a bit more defensively. | |
| Daliuxas | Feb 17, 2009 - 3:01 PM (HideShow) |
| Celtur | Feb 17, 2009 - 3:45 PM (HideShow) |
| What would u say the best combo of DK/pally and DK/shaman is? My own oppinion is Shaman/dk due to hex and interrupts.. tho u dont have the freedom... | |
| Pomppupallo | Feb 17, 2009 - 5:03 PM (HideShow) |
| Could someone tell me what to do against paladin warrior team. We were at 2299 rating with my DK and then lost 2 times in a row to them. It just feels so impossible. We really have NO chance against them... | |
| Ricé | Feb 19, 2009 - 5:26 PM (HideShow) |
| Celtur: DK/pally is far, far superior to DK/shaman. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. A holy paladin covers every single weakness that a DK has, whereas a shaman doesn't. The synergy between the two is astonishing. The popularity of the combo is a pretty good indication :) Pomp: A well played paladin/warrior team is very, very difficult. I think our record against them is 1-6 or something like that. The one game where we won was due to them being really really bad. I water shield tanked the fury warrior =( | |
| Nystrom | Feb 19, 2009 - 11:34 PM (HideShow) |
| what about warrior team, im just interested how u handling them ;) | |
| Daliuxas | Feb 20, 2009 - 2:23 AM (HideShow) |
| How the hell am I supposed to beat Warior / Rogue team?They fucking burst me down in like two seconds.Does keeping Stoneclaw totem will help me get rouge outta stealth?If no ES tanking will help? THanks for answers... | |
 Nesso | Feb 20, 2009 - 7:15 AM (HideShow) |
| Druid / WL pwn our ass too, im haveing a really hard to killing Druids any advise? im DK ofc. :) | |
| Dihybrid | Feb 20, 2009 - 9:31 AM (HideShow) |
| "Against Druid/WL just zerg druid. It's easy fight for us atleast :p" as Pomp said. Really druids are very squishy, try and pet stun, silence combo have shaman help dps and purge hots, we play really offensive vs this team however the amount of dmg that warlocks can do now is rediculous so watch out for them try and los/runetap/pet sac when you get low and if they are killing your shaman use anti magic shell etc on cyclones | |
| Nesso | Feb 20, 2009 - 10:58 AM (HideShow) |
| Maybe i should have mentioned that i'm Blood spec. :) Our raiting got totally busted by the above team the then Warrior/pala or druid. (not that it was any good to begin with) Ricé please force your teammate to make DK guide. :) Great guide btw. | |
| Dihybrid | Feb 20, 2009 - 7:28 PM (HideShow) |
| I'm not blood but I've played blood so here is my theory: When going on for a burst get all hots off with purge have diseases up and ready, pop pet @ 130 RP chain wait for pet's chain then death grip if he gets away. Mainly just rely on the delay of the pet and use the shamans burst as well as that pro silence. If your tauren deathgrip - > warstomp -> silence is amazing | |
  Buttascotch | Feb 21, 2009 - 1:27 AM (HideShow) |
| ret pally/ DK please :( | |
| Ricé | Feb 21, 2009 - 4:25 AM (HideShow) |
| There's not much to say bout double dps as a shaman. The only thing you're *allowed* to do because of your class is to bloodlust and spamheal yourself until either you or one of the opponent dies. There's no special trick to surviving, I'm afraid. Start with the proper totems and just hope for the best. Although it does help if you can split the two DPS apart. | |
| Rapzer | Feb 21, 2009 - 11:32 PM (HideShow) |
| What glyphs are u currently using ?.. (DK) I have tryed to find it on Armory.. But apparently u cant see glyphs.. Thank you | |
| Ricé | Feb 22, 2009 - 6:06 PM (HideShow) |
| Rapzer: I believe trium's using blood boil, ghoul, and I think... scourge strike? Pretty certain on first two. | |
 Mahtavajonas | Feb 22, 2009 - 7:46 PM (HideShow) |
| Blood boil, ghoul and Icy Touch. Those are what i'm using as 0/21/50... SS ain't that bad either imo. It's really up to you, which you prefer the most | |
| Kran | Feb 22, 2009 - 10:03 PM (HideShow) |
| How do you deal with boomkins, I lost a match in 2v2 cause a boomkin crited me for 13k and my grounding totem was on cd. it's the only time i vs boomkin and a DK combo and i don't wan't to run into a loss like that again. It could have been pure luck but he did some insane burst. | |
| Hornbreakerz | Feb 23, 2009 - 2:56 AM (HideShow) |
| What do you do against affi lock and a healing ret pala? Me and my partner faced a team like this yesterday, and the fight lasted about 25 minutes, being our longest game. After attempting numerous strategies, we tried getting the warlock to about 60-70%, and then cc'ing or interrupt/silence the paladin and nuke down the warlock (with BL). After failing 2 times with BL, we got him down the 3rd time without BL, hexing him having no trinket or bubble. It seems like the paladin has some very good mana regen from the replenishment, but is it worth spamming purge on him? We also tried just bursting down one of em, without CC. But when we went for the paladin, the warlock would just fear me and my partner, and have his pet destroy my totem... And if we went for the warlock, then paladin was just free to heal. | |
| Ricé | Feb 23, 2009 - 4:48 AM (HideShow) |
| Kran: Either you are in blues or he is in pve gear. In that case, lust and just 2-3 shot the moonkin. Horn: Lock teams will be very difficult. Combine that with the 34 ret holy pallies and you got yourself a handful. There is no easy way to go about this. Your best bet is to put lots of pressure on the paladin while avoiding fears to the best of your ability. You have to make him burn his mana before you get overwhelmed by dots. Play the tremor game as best as you can. Thankfully we haven't faced any pally/warlocks. Honestly though, I would consider them a counter-comp and just queue-dodge. | |
| Tekina | Feb 23, 2009 - 2:59 PM (HideShow) |
| could you tell me... how can svhunter+holypal beat your comp? its annoying... we cant get DK down when we chain our CCs on the shaman. thanks a lot :) | |
| Dihybrid | Feb 23, 2009 - 11:40 PM (HideShow) |
| @Tek, We are unstoppable sorry. Lol. Second off just take a look at your strat and decide whats wrong with it yourself. | |
| Lunchboxx | Feb 24, 2009 - 7:08 AM (HideShow) |
| dude this spec rox i did make some adjustments like take out healing grace gave me 3 extra points but other then that big improvement against rouges and other classes i had problems on. | |
| Mcpie | Feb 25, 2009 - 7:43 AM (HideShow) |
| Hey Rice. Any chance for a link to your UI and what addon's you use other than the ones listed? Cheers. | |
| Cii | Feb 26, 2009 - 7:41 AM (HideShow) |
| nice work dude! | |
| Mahtavajonas | Feb 26, 2009 - 11:03 AM (HideShow) |
| Hm... i'd like to know what are you guys doing if there's a feral druid and a paladin and feral druid is focusing me (DK). Can't really kill either of them, and the paladin is getting redicolous amount of mana from replenish (using repentance/holy spec). Any ideas? I usually just stick with the Druid, trying to spread diseases and fast switch to the pala if he's getting low... Playing this setup @ 2300 rating and these are the teams (along with healer + TG warrior) which are the most difficult for us =/ Help meh please ;) | |
| Lydora | Feb 26, 2009 - 11:54 PM (HideShow) |
| Was playing a friend of mine's shammy this evening, tried a bit of this setup. The only problem we had was against retholylolmana pala/ surv hunter, we had 0 strats figured out as it was the first time either of us played the setup. If we try and get offensive on the pala, the hunter just lays into my dk big time, even with me eating 0 cc's (save a short wyvern sting, totem down) and pressuring the hunter really didn't feel too easy, though admittedly it was 4 am and i wasn't exactly on top of my game ;p So do we need to just sit on the hunter and get some good cc off on the pala? It's difficult for me to get aggressive since they just pressure my dk so hard. The shaman is somewhat undergeared, so mana became the issue, and we lost with the pala on 11k mana kek (and me oom). | |
| Mahtavajonas | Feb 27, 2009 - 12:58 AM (HideShow) |
| Dear Lydora. The paladin against you haves 2 replenishes, one from himself and one from the hunter, so it's kinda hard to make the paladin oom. We usually start with the hunter, spread diseases, wait for pala to come out from hes hideout, and grip him. Max dps to the paladin (for the bubble), save strangulate and ERW after bubble. While pala stays in bubble, dps the hunter and get full health for both... After bubble just make your DK pop all defensive cd's on, and nuke the sh**t out of the pala ;) GL! | |
| Violate | Feb 27, 2009 - 11:30 AM (HideShow) |
| The most hard setup for me as I've discovered as Resto is "Healer + Affiction lock". Still have no idea how to play properly against that setup. | |
| Mahtavajonas | Feb 27, 2009 - 11:45 AM (HideShow) |
| Violate: Lock teams will be very difficult. Combine that with the 34 ret holy pallies and you got yourself a handful. There is no easy way to go about this. Your best bet is to put lots of pressure on the paladin while avoiding fears to the best of your ability. You have to make him burn his mana before you get overwhelmed by dots. Play the tremor game as best as you can. (Quote from Rice's comment) | |
| Ricé | Feb 28, 2009 - 2:08 AM (HideShow) |
| Sorry for the lack of updates, I'll try to get a BIG one in tomorrow since I won't have anything to do :P Mahtava: If they are good, it is a very, very difficult comp to play against. You must sit on the druid until he goes bear, then switch to the paladin. Once he comes back to cat, sit on him again until he goes bear. There's really not much else you can do. He cannot be kited by shaman/dk effectively, so your shaman just has to learn how to tank him (hint: back against a pillar, or spin around while casting). Lydora: Mahtva is fairly on the spot. You have to pressure the paladin HARD, because you will NEVER win the mana war against that team. EVER. Play offensively as best as you can from the start. Use AMS when you're going for a kill to avoid CC's and burst damage. Violate: I think I'll be uploading strats for this one soon, since I've had a bit more exp with them now. However, it does not bode well for this comp since warlocks are very good against this comp. The best you can do is avoid fears and be on top of heals. If you can kill the pet or force a voidwalker summon, you will have a good advantage because you won't have to worry about juking spell locks. However, expect to lose against good ones (grrr nadagast). Again, mahtava is pretty much on the spot. | |
 Meliya | Feb 28, 2009 - 5:26 PM (HideShow) |
| BB means blood boil.. As a deathknight it is a neccessity to have Blood Boil glyph which gives the target you blood boiled a 50 percent reduce speed snare for 5 seconds. It is not magic. So you cant cure it. Very helpful in arena and it is my favorite spell. Just and F.Y.I | |
| Ricé | Feb 28, 2009 - 6:57 PM (HideShow) |
| Sent update to the admin, expect a good chunk of new content. | |
| Fibble | Mar 1, 2009 - 9:13 AM (HideShow) |
| Now, How much crit is "average" for a pvp resto shaman? Or what would you say would be good? I got 22.66% in my current pvp gear. | |
| Kiana | Mar 1, 2009 - 2:26 PM (HideShow) |
| weren't u in blue garter azshara | |
| Ricé | Mar 1, 2009 - 5:11 PM (HideShow) |
| Fibble, I have about 23.22% crit, so you're pretty much fine :) | |
 Tatubolita | Mar 2, 2009 - 10:02 AM (HideShow) |
| Could this comp be viable with a Frost DK instead? | |
| Arnielle | Mar 2, 2009 - 2:23 PM (HideShow) |
| Wery nice guide, i started with Dk yesterday and we hit 1800 quite easy. Our big problem is Mage/rogue and Rogue/priest. My Dk cant keep rogue away from me, and if priest fuck up Tremor while im in kidney.. I usually manage to stay alive, the problem is running oom. I even got the JC trinket and Mana tide. No chance to drink when i cant escape the rogue. Mage/rogue chain cc dk and nuke me quite easy. My Dk is specced without Anti Magic Zone. Any more suggestions? | |
| Mahtavajonas | Mar 2, 2009 - 9:00 PM (HideShow) |
| Arnielle, DK should be able to keep the rogue off you pretty easy, since they have no freedom from a holy paladin. DG while the rogue uses CoS is a nice trick since you can't get a chains of ice while he resists everything. Just make your DK save the stuns for the rogue when you just can't get away, or for kindey shot. About Mage-rogue setup. I totally hope that your DK does have a talent calld "Lichborne", this litlle thing makes your partner immune to sheeps / sap. Make sure your DK goes for the mage, and keep him off you as good as possible (meaning, Coi / Strangulate / DG after blink + stun etc. etc.) Los the mage and you have 1vs1 situation with a rogue (which is also chained by DK hopefully) and you have pretty easy win. This can ofc. be a litlle difficult in arenas with not so many places to go los (Og arena for example). There's lot of good and usefull info in Ricés posts above, just take your time reading them and you find these two teams doable (or even easy). Good luck =) | |
| Ricé | Mar 3, 2009 - 4:18 AM (HideShow) |
| Tatubolita: My DK has never specced frost before, but I don't think it will work because you need gargoyle pressure as well as the permanent ghoul to succeed against most teams. Although I would love to see you try it out and report back to me on how it went just to see another perspective. | |
| Mox | Mar 3, 2009 - 6:35 AM (HideShow) |
| hey can you post a screenshot of your UI too? :) | |
| Hornbreakerz | Mar 3, 2009 - 7:05 AM (HideShow) |
| Me and my partner (currently at 1600-1650) are going to try blood/resto just to see how it's going to work out. Any general tips I could get with the difference? :) | |
| Tatubolita | Mar 3, 2009 - 12:15 PM (HideShow) |
| Rice: I was just thinking about it because I play Frost, and, despite the much more burst damage that Frost can do compared to Unholy, you also have Hungering Cold to either help your healer breathe for a sec or to finish someone off with the help of some other CC like Hex. I play with a holy paladin now but I wanna find a good shaman in the server and try it off. | |
| Kiir | Mar 3, 2009 - 1:14 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey, I seem to be one of the very few DK's playing frost in this setup(20/51/0). Hex+HC has won lot of matches for us and the dps is awesome. Altho i miss garg/pet im in love with this specc. | |
| Ricé | Mar 3, 2009 - 5:54 PM (HideShow) |
| Not a terribly good screenshot but here it is: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/iceshards/jotw.jpg The little bars sticking to the right of the scoreboard is cooldowntimers 3. | |
| Ricé | Mar 3, 2009 - 5:57 PM (HideShow) |
| Horn: Blood really won't work because your disease are just so weak and you won't have dispel resist, and there's no way you can get a kill outside of DRW. Blood requires dispels to work right because it has no ranged damage whatsoever. Tatu: Hungering Cold may be nice, but oftentimes, a chains of ice will just do the trick just fine. You will find that pally/dk is heaps easier than shaman/dk unless the shaman is a much much better player. | |
| Veroq | Mar 3, 2009 - 7:35 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey, I play currently with blood dk, and it's working very fine (2k atm). The only problem we face is dk's survivalibity (f.e. when 2x dps nuke him and cc me = we lost). But DRW works really fine, we manage to kill everyone except paladin (but force him to bubble) on the first try (130rp, hysteria, bl, hex target, etcetc). Anyway, it seems from rankings and Your guide, that on higher ratings blood dk doesn't work. Why is that? Players are unkillable during DRW? Well, blood has weaker diseases, ofcourse, but arenas still mostly depend on burst, aren't they?:( | |
| Potbot | Mar 4, 2009 - 1:51 AM (HideShow) |
| I have not seen anyone mention how to avoid the DK getting kited. With mage teams the DK sits in a frost nova, and there seems to be no way out after Death Grip is on cool down. This is just my dinky DK alt and my friends alt Shaman. But it seems like there are times I get completely kited :X granted i was blood. I guess unholy realy is the best for this huh? | |
| Ricé | Mar 4, 2009 - 1:51 AM (HideShow) |
| The thing with blood is that it's a one-trick pony. Anyone at higher rankings will know to save all their cooldowns to counter DRW. After DRW you basically have nothing for 3 mins while they're free to play super offensively. | |
| Avali | Mar 5, 2009 - 4:42 PM (HideShow) |
| RICE I DONT LIKE YOUR KIND | |
| Ghán | Mar 6, 2009 - 8:16 AM (HideShow) |
| Rice, you cannot purge divine plea since 3.0.9 (i just saw it in one of the tactics, edit it pls!) | |
| Goaan | Mar 6, 2009 - 6:01 PM (HideShow) |
| Dk 'pvp' specc is going to chance alot in 3.1.0, you got a new specc in the eye already? And if you do would you mind posting it here ? Thx alot for this great strategies! Grtz | |
| Deathmunky | Mar 7, 2009 - 6:25 AM (HideShow) |
| Rice.. ur awesome bro. i studied up... and im totally ready. we were doin damn good b4 i knew this crap.. now we will dominate. =D btw... check out this spec.. this is what i use. it gives u xtra bonus healing with the Ele Weps talent in Enh.. also... i get healing way, then i make a macro that uses Natures Swiftness, Tidal Force, and Healing wave by clicking it 3 times... in that order. its basically an instant 14k heal and with the ancestral gurardian, its another 3.66k or so to whoever has the lowest health. its really good. i use it alot. that way... u can either heal urself to full (like a lay on hand with a 2 min CD) or u can let ur DK get vaguely low and then instant heal him to full, using little mana compared to spam lesser healing waves and riptide. Healing way will also make all ur lesser healing waves more effective. it might b worth looking into.. u might like what u see, =D http://www.wowdb.com/talent.aspx?id=7#f25e2fae3f20ef2ecfe2f2e6fe2fe6 | |
| Deathmunky | Mar 7, 2009 - 6:26 AM (HideShow) |
| unfortunately tho... our MMR rating is HORRIBLE. we were 10 and 2 wen i reset the charter and we wer 1495 rating... xD | |
| Gein | Mar 7, 2009 - 5:03 PM (HideShow) |
| There are a LOT of comments to read, maybe I missed it... But do you have a strat for rogue/lock? DK dropped DND on the bridge to discourage a sap rush from rogue, i ran to it and dropped tremor, leaving poison cleanse at the pillar near the top of the ramp, and riptided myself. I got cheapshotted as the lock ran up on us, gripped rogue, immediate deathcoil as the strangulate went off on lock, into a CoS/Sprinted KS> Trinket (15%) Cleanse>NS heal>nightfall proc death I argued my point over and over, ground was eaten by CoA, tremor never a factor. Is there anything we can do? DK rush lock and force the fight on his end of bridge and earlier strang to deny the deathcoil? This leaves me wide open, on our end, for the rogue to control me with the the pets (albeit miniscule) help until lock is able to toss some instants in... | |
| Ricé | Mar 7, 2009 - 5:27 PM (HideShow) |
| Deathmunky your spec is pretty bad, no offense. You can't skip shamanistic focus. Healing way is pretty garbage for pvp as well. Why would you have ancestral fortitude and not imp ws, assuming you're stacking crit gear? 5 in nature's guardian? Just doesn't make sense to me. Gein: Rogue/lock will be hard. The best thing I can think of for you is to have your DK chains of ice spam the warlock and tunnel him while you tank the rogue to the best of your ability out of LOS of the lock. Just hope that your DK can kill the lock before you die or your DK dies from dots. The key to winning against double DPS is to separate them. | |
| Kharg | Mar 9, 2009 - 9:12 AM (HideShow) |
| Nice trolljob Deathmunky. It made me crack a smile :-D Ricé: How often do you use healing wave? Why do you prefer speccing into it instead of getting totemic focus? Does this have to do with the fact that you NEVER have any mana problems, seeing you do not use the water shield glyph nor do you appriciate mp5 gear? | |
| Ricé | Mar 10, 2009 - 3:24 AM (HideShow) |
| Actually I do use water shield glyph now, I forgot to put that in there. Of course I have mana problems sometimes, but in most games it's either over before it's a problem or I can get off good drinks. Crit just has so much better synergy than mp5. As for HW, I sometimes use it to heal-drink and it's also good with bloodlust/tidal waves. The totems that are most frequently used in pvp are not terribly expensive anyway, so I don't see putting in 5 points for totem reduction as very helpful. | |
| Evilac | Mar 10, 2009 - 10:34 PM (HideShow) |
| Quick question regarding Hex. I am hit capped (so it never misses) but quite often I see it RESIST. Is Hex considered a "nature" spell, if so wouldn't it be worth throwing in 1 or 2 +20 Spell Penetration gems to avoid such nonsense ?? | |
| Jigorina | Mar 12, 2009 - 3:19 PM (HideShow) |
| Many classes have some spell resist talents, like paladins have 4% spell resist from the spec that give them HoF to remove stun. | |
| Jigorina | Mar 12, 2009 - 4:49 PM (HideShow) |
| And yes Hex is considered Nature. | |
| Ricé | Mar 12, 2009 - 5:09 PM (HideShow) |
| Evilac: If you see "resist" pop up, it is due to a class ability that grants +resistance to nature, ie, MotW, Mage Armor, etc. If you see "miss" pop up, it is due to you not having sufficient spell hit to counteract a combination of the following: PvP penalty (4%), racials (2%), and/or talents (varies, but usually 4%). So in order to never miss against a blood elf paladin when using nature spells, you would need 10% spell hit to counteract the pvp penalty, racial penalty, and divine purpose. Of course, 10% is hardly reasonable for most people right now. Jigorina: Your first response is half wrong :x It's -4% to spell HIT. | |
| Jigorina | Mar 12, 2009 - 5:28 PM (HideShow) |
| I'd like to ask when I should use Heroism against healer setups. Should I use it when they've used some cds in order to survive and when we have our cds ready? I seem to forget it many times and wouldn't surprise me if we've lost on it. | |
| Mox | Mar 12, 2009 - 10:21 PM (HideShow) |
| we mostly use it with gargoyle ;) | |
| Getrolled | Mar 13, 2009 - 6:58 AM (HideShow) |
| Hey rice! Great guide. It's probably just me being bad, but there are a few teams that we go up against that we just can't beat no matter how hard we try. Rogue/priest: We've tried decimating the rogue, but he just cloaks the first grip/chain and then proceeds to stunlock me, all while the priest is either manaburning and running in to totemstomp/fear. I can barely heal through his cheap shot/kidney and with the added fear (that I can do NOTHING about) I can't survive through it at all. We've tried bursting the priest from the get-go with blowing heroism and purging his shields/mending etc, but this seems to be a very low success rate, since I just get CC'd and the DK can't do shit without purge. Paladin/warrior: I burn through all my mana trying to heal through the warrior (Fury MS really hurts). Even if I can survive, the paladin will be so far ahead of me that it's pointless. I can't even break off for a second to purge, and the DK has trouble peeling him off due to hand of freedom. Like the other team, we try to burst down the healer to try and force a bubble, we've won a few times that way. ANY mage team, specifically mage/rogue: My DK partner can't stand this comp. While we can generally keep the mage at bay for a short while with me purging his shields, he eventually gets a poly out with his mirror images and then I get burst like none other. What the hell are we supposed to do here? I can barely survive as it is with wound poison on me (and I sure as hell don't have the time to cleanse it), and with the mage hitting me it's pretty much pointless. The DK has to use his grip on the mage too, to keep him occupied and to actually be able to hit him. I've got around 900 resilience and we're stuck around 1700, so it's not like gear is the problem. | |
| Codface | Mar 15, 2009 - 2:22 PM (HideShow) |
| Vs rogues as a DK would it not be logical to place your ghoul on aggressive for the start. Usually the Rogues partner will stay back a couple of seconds. Rogue jumps healer. Ghoul jumps rogue and hopefully stuns him ruining his opening burst or at least giving you time to get out of sap/kidney before Shammy in too much danger. | |
| Hornbreakerz | Mar 16, 2009 - 6:26 PM (HideShow) |
| Requesting frostmage/priest (disc/shadow), and enh/holy pala. Between stuns, poly, fear, mana burn, slows etc. We just can't stay alive vs them :s. And the enh would eventually just kill me since we can't kite the enh very well due to freedom, and he can flee when he wants. | |
 Fsdaglhkjxvb | Mar 17, 2009 - 3:57 AM (HideShow) |
| Tell me if you beat hunter/paladin | |
| Emergy | Mar 17, 2009 - 4:19 AM (HideShow) |
| Rice: what addon tells your group what u interupted AND what your grounding totem grounds? also any other addons u recommend for my shammy. Thanks in advance, love the guide bro | |
| Emergy | Mar 17, 2009 - 4:22 AM (HideShow) |
| nvm, scrap what i said i re-read your addons category haha but anything else other than Shaman Friend that you find useful rice? | |
| Ricé | Mar 17, 2009 - 5:11 AM (HideShow) |
| Getrolled: Yes, the first 20-30 seconds are the worst against priest/rogue. The best thing you can do is to suppress as much of their opener as you can. You can do this by pre-hotting with riptide and throwing ES on yourself. If the priest is dispel-happy against you, keep tossing up ES (I assume you have healing grace). The Dk will have to blow a few cooldowns to make the priest heal (target varies depending on the situation, so it's your call) in the early game. It's all about surviving the first few rounds of getting beat on. However, against top-notch players, it's next to impossible :/ Hornbreakerz: Never played against either of those two comps (sounds like random average rated comps tbh), so I can't really comment. DK with messed up name: Only if they're bad or mess up a lot :) Emergy: I wrote down everything that is useful as far as addons go, but one more I can think of is afflicted 2, although that has minimal impact on my gameplay since I'm too busy to look at it besides 1-2 times a game for their cooldown usage. | |
| Inquizitor | Mar 17, 2009 - 7:05 AM (HideShow) |
| me and my shaman partner ( who is still kind of new to the higher end of pvp having never broke 2k before is struggling ) we are getting destoyed by a lot shaman/war teams and pally war teams. we struggle down most teams in a quick fashion causing most games to be worse then when I played a hunter back in s2/s3 as drain comp...lol, what can we do to increase his surviv and increase our overall chances of winning vs harder comps | |
| Reckon | Mar 18, 2009 - 4:53 AM (HideShow) |
| Would LOVE to see a vid from you Ricé. Is that possible in the near future? :D I haven't found any Shammy/Dk on WM and i'd like to see your play style etc :) . | |
| Eurèka | Mar 18, 2009 - 3:02 PM (HideShow) |
| Hello Ricé. I just downloaded your video when you are going with Trium. Loved it, even tho it seemed to me as if Trium did not help you as much as he could. Not sure if thats how shaman/dk works. Im running feral/shaman atm, but I will try dk/shaman soon. I would be much happier if you could make a video with your POV. Do you have any strategies vs mirror? Would love to see more of you in the future Eurèka. | |
| Fsdaglhkjxvb | Mar 18, 2009 - 5:53 PM (HideShow) |
| So basically I flat line forever now because every time is a paladin/hunter or something overpowered >.> | |
| Ricé | Mar 19, 2009 - 3:44 AM (HideShow) |
| Inquizitor: A well-geared fury warrior is tough to tank. You most likely won't be able to peel the warrior very much, if at all, especially if there's a paladin involved. We have a rough time against them too. Best advice I can give you is to just spamheal until a chains of ice isn't broken by something. Also, read warrior/healer section please. You will not likely see a video from me for a while because I play on a very shitty computer. I get 4 fps in 25 man raids, and 20 fps playing 2v2. Add fraps onto that and my computer will explode. Sorry guys. | |
| Mìsery | Mar 19, 2009 - 9:25 PM (HideShow) |
| how does this comp work with all the shadowfrost dks? pally/shadowfrost dk seemed impossible. was spamming grip every CD, and chains of ice but couldnt seem to keep my shaman alive. idk if it's him or me but it was just ridiculous with blood boil glyph and me sitting in full duration chains reapplied | |
| Avante | Mar 20, 2009 - 8:38 AM (HideShow) |
| This comp is hard..... to play against -_- | |
| Weimer | Mar 20, 2009 - 9:49 PM (HideShow) |
| I just posted a Warcraftmovie of me and my friend running this comp around the 2100 bracket on Stormstrike BG. Might help, might not.... http://warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=104863 | |
| Dawnky | Mar 21, 2009 - 10:16 AM (HideShow) |
| dude,seriously, you play horrible just flew over your movie and saw so many mistakes that i'm pretty sure i can not even count them but mentioning probably the biggest 2 of them should help you (and maybe some others) a bit in future first of all, you have absolutely no sense of teamplay, mostly tunnelvisioning one target the whole fight (had to laugh when you ran after the priest at the end for about ~~ 20 seconds instead of just hitting on the druid meanwhile) this guide even mentions this "protect your healer" thing which you completely lack. for example, a half decent DK would have killed your shaman at least 3 times while you where tunneling the pala in the first game (meaning, your enemys were quite bad) second, you know this thing called "Pestilence", right ? never saw you using it, even though it is by far the best ability a DK has to pressure the opposite team (even much better if the opposite team has a pet) given the situation that they stand close enough to each other which absolutely EVERY team does sooner or later. on top of that, BB´ing the other team (especially with the glyph) is.... well,kind of cool, too. well, there are other reasons why you "only" play on 2.1k, but those should be strongest and.... you use SS,which isnt really the way this specc should be played but i´m ok with that. so far, dawnky | |
| Reckon | Mar 22, 2009 - 6:08 AM (HideShow) |
| Sad to hear that Ricé , could anyone give me a link to a Dk/shammy movie but shammy PoV? | |
| Hornbreakerz | Mar 22, 2009 - 4:12 PM (HideShow) |
| Lately I've been finding myself going oom while being in combat most of the time and barely living by playing ultra defensively and casting healing wave whenever I have enough mana for it, against healer/dps teams. Usually I keep in combat due to it being a rogue/warrior bashing on my dk with wounding/ms and/or the other healer following me around, rendering me unable to drink. So I have thought about switching to mp5 gear, when I get to upgrade my belt, bracers and boots from hateful to deadly. Atm, I can upgrade it all, but I'm slow/lazy at farming honor, so it takes some time. I have looked at the different stats I gain when moving from hateful bracers/belt and wg haste boots and they are as following: stam = 27 int = 14 - 214 mana arm = 54 resi = 16 sp + talent = 28 mp5 = 49 crit = - 70 haste= - 36 So I'm going to be losing around 1,5% crit from crit rating. (not looking at the gain from int, which is rather small anyway) Do you think 49 mp5 will make a difference with this compared to the 1,5% crit, when considering what I wrote in the top of my post, and the fact that I'm rarely playing much offensive other than an interupt, stun or hex to the healer and sometimes a lava burst (with flame shock) or frost shock to help finish someone off when the healer is cc'ed or to pressure the other team? | |
| Gyånny | Mar 23, 2009 - 2:09 PM (HideShow) |
| To Rice: I've tryed for long to play as deep frost/blood with my shaman, it worked till 2300 rating, then wasn't possible for us to move from that rating. If you are gonna inspect me you'll see that i'm playing with a pala at a pretty tard rating, i'll back with my shaman tomorrow with the fotm spec 20-51 and see if we can do any good. Here you can find a short movie of mine (as frost): http://postdownload.filefront.com/13401936//799e2299910b1031d2f31443d281bfc7d055753a82196a15b9d231840e717f64316636cdd7cbf92c | |
| Hornbreakerz | Mar 23, 2009 - 5:16 PM (HideShow) |
| Oh no not you... That guy has been spamming some of the other guides with the same kind of comments. | |
| Faillol | Mar 24, 2009 - 1:54 PM (HideShow) |
| I've got a question for you guys ... Should my DK http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kel%27Thuzad&n=Arakus stick with his current gear or should he buy the savage gear aswell? The damage on him is really ridicules sometimes, but I'm a little scared that he will lose to much of his offensive power if he switches to the blue set ... | |
| Exhaulted | Mar 25, 2009 - 9:48 PM (HideShow) |
| wow Stunning,,, that was so sarcastic of you... did you know (you prolly do) that 1v1 Shamans eat you up (if they are as talented as Rice or me) thats due to this wonderful guide... and for you to mock it is just ... bah >.< yo Rice ... about Dk/pally... is goin for the plly from the get go the ideal and do we as shamans have to be aggressive or defensive... enlighten those who are blinded that dk/shaman is OP LuL | |
| Ricé | Mar 26, 2009 - 6:18 AM (HideShow) |
| Stunning is a pretty obvious troll, brought a smile to my face. Bah, so many questions since I last looked at this. Misery: It's more about the paladin than the DK, although shadowfrost is quite the bane of shamans. JotW plays a much bigger role against this comp than shadowfrost. The only way you can win against jotw/shadowfrost is to kill the paladin. Sometimes you just get gibbed against even mediocre teams, it just happens. Weimer: I watched your vid for about 2 mins, gonna have to go with dawnky. You never used blood boil a single time vs. that paladin, you just let him kite you forever. When he jumped off the bridge, you should've swapped to the DK to let your shaman get a break. Hornbreakerz: If you can't drink a lot, then you're doing something wrong. My guess is that your positioning is bad. Mp5 gear is not going to remedy that. If their healer is simply chasing you all game, then you can make them stop by swapping to the healer to make them play more defensively. I have 210 mp5 in combat (80 from gear, 130 from WS), and there are few games where I actually run oom and can't drink. You need the crit for the burst potential as well as better healing. If you need to heal less, you conserve more mana. See? Gyanny: I have no experience playing with frost, and I have very little experience playing against frost, so I can't comment at all. Failol: Tell him to buy hateful from badges, hell, just tell him to run naxx a bunch. There's no excuse in arenaing in blues! Exhaulted: Kill the pet first if you can. Gnaw stun is actually extremely game-breaking against you. You need to swap back and forth between the targets as necessary. This comp can't tunnel vision and win (most of the time!). | |
| Slashcut | Mar 26, 2009 - 5:49 PM (HideShow) |
| Basicly my only question is actually about ur partner and that is how he will be speccing in 3.1 seeing as Shadowfrost got kinda nerfed. Will he be skipping out on the Bone shield glyph or Glyph of the Ghoul to get the Imp plague strike glyph for increased 20% dmg or yust stick with BB, Ghoul, BS glyphs. Would apriciate some serious answers. My thoughts would be to stay as Shadowfrost with slight changes. I would spec around something like this. http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=jZGMxdVZfzGI0boxsqMfohp | |
| Ricé | Mar 28, 2009 - 5:55 AM (HideShow) |
| He doesn't spec shadowfrost. He specs like 10/11/50 atm. I think he said he might go deep frost next patch. Also, I'm not up to date on all the DK changes so you're probably better off PM'ing him instead of putting it on here. This is mainly for comp-related questions or shaman questions :P | |
| Reckon | Mar 28, 2009 - 2:20 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey Ricé, at what spec are you thinking for 3.1? I'll probably try 20-51 as well but still there are soo many options of what to do with those 51 points in resto and do you think Mana tide is worth 4 talent points?It can still be destroyed fairly easy :< .Enlighten me :D | |
| Kaloric | Mar 29, 2009 - 3:06 AM (HideShow) |
| I'm just curious about a few things. I'm (obviously) running this comp and we're doing alright (currently 2040) but can't seem to get much higher, we win a few than loose a few. The issue is with me and this IT spam spec... I just can't seem to push out enough dmg to make it viable to CC someone and burn them.. Basically I'm having issue with enough sustained damage and need help with my burst. If anyone has any guides I can read or videos or anything I would really appreciate it! Kal | |
 Oliolio | Mar 29, 2009 - 5:34 PM (HideShow) |
| What the hell do we do against a Ret paladin / DK? .... theyre fking ridiculous burst | |
| Polkabop | Mar 30, 2009 - 8:59 PM (HideShow) |
| rice doesn't respec for pve. | |
| Gyånny | Mar 31, 2009 - 4:24 AM (HideShow) |
| To Kaloric: i feel like to answer you, how can't you do a good burst dmg using classic 0-21-59 spec? It's just enaugh to think that you will have 2x death runes + 2x frost runes and gargoile in the air. That means 4x IT (if you are lucky 4k dmg x 4 ) + a couple of death coils + Gargoile dmg + 3 seconds pet stun.If your shaman is able to support you, a target can't survive that if that target doesn't get helped. I left my 2400+ rated paladin team to back on my shaman as frost spec <3 Let's see week how far can we push ze rating. | |
| Gyånny | Mar 31, 2009 - 4:26 AM (HideShow) |
| omg i can't edit to correct grammar.. /shamed | |
| Jigorina | Mar 31, 2009 - 11:06 AM (HideShow) |
| Anyone can give me a tip on how to get a hex of... If they're on me there is no chance and when I get the possibility they will be at DK, when they are at DK we won't have them low enough for hex to make any difference. And what bothers me is that the target can still run while hexed. The only good thing that I find for it is to silience a healer for 10 seconds (4-5 second 80% of the times since all healers are paladins with anti curse spec). But I just seem to get pushback 1 sec then silienced and that put me in a dangerous situation since Nature school will be locked. | |
| Broseph | Apr 1, 2009 - 6:22 PM (HideShow) |
| u shamens r dum, u need spec in IMP CHAIN HEAL kepe dk gool alive and u alive and dk alive at same tiem. | |
| Ricé | Apr 3, 2009 - 4:05 AM (HideShow) |
| Jig: Try baiting a 1 sec LHW before going for a hex. Most people (95%+) usually try to interrupt it but fail. Then you get to hex him, provided you don't get ghoul stunned/strangulated/AMS'd. If you do... well... tough luck :) Kaloric: Gonna go with Gyanny. You probably aren't chaining your CC's/silences properly with your partner. Get the timing down better and your opponents should die very fast especially as shadowfrost. Broseph: I'm ashamed to admit I sometimes chain heal in 5's because it's just so much easier :x | |
| Hornbreakerz | Apr 4, 2009 - 2:44 PM (HideShow) |
| Is hast actually any good for a resto sham in this setup? Been looking at some of the new WG items and they provide haste. (also some that provides hit, but maybe you are hit capped) | |
| Ralin | Apr 6, 2009 - 8:24 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey, i'm really glad you put up a guide. I play as DK/Shaman running Shadowfrost instead of the Unholy. Do you feel this makes a difference? Could you see benefits of your DK being unholy instead of the current fotm Shadowfrost? We're doing better than we expected we would since we're alts and my shaman buddy didn't start until late like literally 2-3 weeks ago so for the most part we were running with a S4 geared shaman. So really, anything we get at this point is gravy. What we're having trouble with is getting drinks off, I think. I don't know if this is a product of being undergeared and thus not putting out the proper amount of pressure or what but from reading and watching sham/DK vids, the shaman drinks a hell of a lot and we're lucky to get a drink off at all. Links to armory: DK (me): [url]http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=eredar&n=shayleah[/url] Shaman: [url]http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=eredar&n=exhume[/url] Thanks in advance for any tips you could offer! | |
| Ricé | Apr 7, 2009 - 4:42 AM (HideShow) |
| Ralin: Positioning + chains of ice = drinks. Coordinate grip + chains when you run around the pillar. Obviously, better gear lets you drink longer because you have to heal less. Horn: Crit is better. "Hit capped" doesn't really mean much nowadays, because there are so many talents that make you miss on targets. You need 10% hit to never miss against bloodelf pallies, but only 4% against warlocks, for example. | |
 Advante | Apr 9, 2009 - 8:18 AM (HideShow) |
| SHAMAN POP HEROISM UNHOLY DK MASH ALL BUTTONS ; MATCH OVER | |
| Celestal | Apr 9, 2009 - 1:14 PM (HideShow) |
| Lol who you kidding? DKs dont need a guide -.- | |
| Noxanna | Apr 10, 2009 - 7:39 PM (HideShow) |
| I blame the flu medication, but where is the link to this video of Rice/Trium that people are mentioning? I can't find it here, or by searching Warcraftmovies for their names. (Not sure how to make the funky "i" in Rice.) | |
| Ricé | Apr 11, 2009 - 5:59 AM (HideShow) |
| Rogue with dual weapon chains commenting on arena strategy, nice. Priest with 54% win average at 2k rating commenting on arena strategy, nice. Anyone else want to troll my guide? Noxanna: Search WCM for "aversion." It should also be buried somewhere in the video section on AJ forums. | |
| Dogmanxz | Apr 12, 2009 - 3:34 AM (HideShow) |
| ROFL RICE.. UR GUIDE?! IF UR RUNNING RESTO SHAMAN AND AN UNHOLY DK AND NOT HAVE 2.7K RATING... UR BAD DAMMIT.. FREAKING RETARD... JUST MASH THAT HEROISM BUTTON AND DK JUST BANG HIS UGLY NERD HEAD ONTO HIS DAMN KEYBOARD... SO EZ EVEN A DOUCHE BAG CAN DO IT.... RICE, FACE IT. UR BAD.. WORTHLESS SHAMAN.. JUST GO BACK TO PVE AND HIDE UNDER KT'S ARMPITS DAMMIT | |
| Gunthe | Apr 13, 2009 - 10:41 AM (HideShow) |
| Love the guide man, even as a dk I picked up on what my healer needs to do. So I know what he is doing most of the time and what I can do to react to keep him protected and alive. I joined his team, 1650 when I joined last night, and we have gone through a series of win/lost but mainly lost to: lock/druid this fight was a pain in the ass, took about 25min and the lock came close to death several times but we couldn't get him down. I would reguarly switch from druid to lock and vise versa to keep duel pressure on and to keep blood plague up. I also set my pet on druid to prevent drinking. Anything else I should do? Furywar/resto sham this fight was about 35min and was a beat fest, I would beat on war, and switch to sham when my partner hex was up. If my sham needed mana or was cc'd I would kite the war. I found it hard to keep the shaman from drinking because if my pet beat on him he got water charges. These are the main two combos that wrecked us, a few others but they are just pure counter. Anyhow I know you aren't a DK but if you could ask your partner or even tell me from shaman's pov I'd love it! PS: I will check out that video. | |
| Gunthe | Apr 13, 2009 - 4:48 PM (HideShow) |
| I watched the movie, it helped a little but is there any way you could release the same one with commentary about what is going on/what you are doing and why? I know most information is here, but I think seeing it in action helps a lot of people get a grasp on it. It would help me alot, as well as others for sure. I also saw a lot of DnD's being thrown around, I've never seen that before. Is there a specific purpose behind it. I saw a few reasons in some of them, rogue steath, prevent drinking and everyone bunched in one area. There where other instances where it was used aggressivly, I was wondering if that is a thing to try or if I should stick to burning most runes with BS/BB,IT,PS. It seems to me that popping dnd a lot is a gimping dps by burning them runes. | |
| Totemall | Apr 14, 2009 - 9:48 AM (HideShow) |
| What spec are DKs looking to go to in 3.1 any ideas yet? | |
| Ricé | Apr 14, 2009 - 5:14 PM (HideShow) |
| The video is old and will be largely irrelevant in 3.1 as far as setup goes. I'll see if he's going to make a new video for s6. Btw, DnD used to randomly stun people, but I guess you didn't play DK back then :P We've never won against shaman/warrior. The warrior can sit on either one of us without a problem and just outmana us, or gib me in 3-4 globals after intercept. Lock/druid is going to be a lot tougher because they have SO much cc and they can still get rid of tremor very easily. Your best bet is to kill the pet twice and make sure it doesn't get back up again. It's more important to avoid fears than cyclones. In both cases, if you can't win consistently, that's what queue-dodging is for :) Dogmanxz, you're going to have to try harder. | |
| Miyamoto | Apr 14, 2009 - 5:37 PM (HideShow) |
| With 3.1 hitting I have been interested in dual speccing arena heals. I PvE enhancement and I love this guide for helping me prepare my second spec. The one question I have is what spells do i need to focus on using. Just earth shield, riptide, and lesser healing wave as far as healing? Or do I need to use healing wave often? I plan on doing mostly 2v2 with some 3's here and there. | |
| Gunthe | Apr 14, 2009 - 9:55 PM (HideShow) |
| Thanks for reply Rice, one it makes me feel important, as for totemall, most dk's are looking at every spec atm, deep frost for control, and deep blood and unholy for large burst. Really I think until blizz gets it in gear and and gets the realms up, I've been waiting since 3pm est and it is now 9est(some of us live in the est buds. Anyhow It will be interesting to see how it plays out, personally I think a frost build would complement a shaman well with some magic suvival and hungering cold for a nice CC when needed. Not to mention HB for large burst. | |
| Hornbreakerz | Apr 15, 2009 - 7:41 AM (HideShow) |
| Here is a spec I have put together for 3.1 http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#hZ0grhoVZxcjus0stkbGRt:LjqcVm This is most likely the spec I will run this season, maybe take the points from Ancestral Awakening, and put them into Nature's Guardian since I, personally, don't feel like it gives much. I'd like to try a defensive spec, since we lose most of our games because of me dying from ferals, dk's, rogues or warriors. | |
| Hornbreakerz | Apr 15, 2009 - 7:42 AM (HideShow) |
| Thoughts? :) | |
| Crostorm | Apr 15, 2009 - 9:52 AM (HideShow) |
| what dou you think to specc earths grasp.So your shield of glyph has more hp? or it doesnt stack? | |
| Crostorm | Apr 15, 2009 - 9:54 AM (HideShow) |
| http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#hZMgMhomZxcxu0xsezbIRt So specc would look like this. | |
| Hornbreakerz | Apr 15, 2009 - 11:51 AM (HideShow) |
| The glyph doesn't change the amount of dmg shielded on you. And also I think it would be much better to take some points from Tidal Mastery and put it in Imp. Water Shield. Your mana regen will be fairly bad without it, have tried it myself. :) | |
| Phosphorus | Apr 15, 2009 - 5:32 PM (HideShow) |
| "what dou you think to specc earths grasp.So your shield of glyph has more hp? or it doesnt stack?" if you're talking about stoneclaw totem shield, earth's grasp doesn't effect the ammount of damage it absorbs | |
| Crostorm | Apr 16, 2009 - 10:30 AM (HideShow) |
| yea thx for the tip. then mybe like this http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#hZ0xThomZxceu0hsezbGRt | |
| Ricé | Apr 17, 2009 - 4:07 AM (HideShow) |
| My current pvp spec is largely the same but with mana tide and less points in nature's guardian. I think going crit gear with imp WS and mana tide will be the way to go. Haven't played with the new toughness too much, but with DK peels I'm not sure if it's all that necessary in the first place. It would help the most with chains of ice, and have almost no effect against rogues or warriors. I just don't think it's quite worth it yet. | |
| Risfuro | Apr 20, 2009 - 2:17 PM (HideShow) |
| Rice: You mention that the shaman should be able to drink a lot in this comp, but when i play it it seems my dk always needs help, i top him off and renew ES and riptide before i go ofc, but it seems i sit down and then have to go back. Also my dk claims CoI is "useless" against pally dk and believes he can do nothing to peel them off me, or anything on me for that matter. We only got 2150 in s5 and think we can do better, but is my dk WTF sucking or are his reasons valid. (he was basic unholy/frost) | |
| Stunning | Apr 20, 2009 - 4:37 PM (HideShow) |
| THIS REALLY NEEDED A STRATEGY | |
| Shnazzdk | Apr 21, 2009 - 6:30 PM (HideShow) |
| As of current I run Dk/shaman and i was just messing around trying different specs when I came across something like this http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jZMuxzAbcofuVosZcrMhhdbx0o I find the lack of HB and TS to be mitigated by having impurity 5/5 and the pet in a dps setting. The crit numbers are definately smaller however the sustained dps from the pet and having pet stun and Improved DG make up for the increased peeling power, which is generally needed to keep dps off my shaman etc. It's still very rough as far as the unholy part goes but i just wanted to get across the basic idea of having the Ghoul pet/ and FS and HC. Rime procs for howling blast are nice as the traditional Frost build but i find it pretty unreliable vs high armor targets anyway as you're basically spamming Oblit the majority of the time to get those rime procs. Idunno im open to comments and/or suggestions at this point. Also you could drop a point in frost to pick up UB if you wish. | |
| Jigorina | Apr 24, 2009 - 12:18 PM (HideShow) |
| Can anyone give me advice for rogue/priest? The nuke is insane, the priest can't go oom like before so even if they fail at first nuke now it's really hard. And OG arena is the worst one since there is no possibility to kite the mana burns. But I seem to die before I can even use NS. Got 1032 resi and 20k health. Also how should we play against retri pala or resto druid. DK is unholy if you want to know. The games I win is those where opponents make mistakes, if they don't then we can't win anymore cause I'll go oom and then it's gg. The use of water is insane right now use 10 waters for each 1 the priests or druids uses. | |
| Jigorina | Apr 24, 2009 - 12:23 PM (HideShow) |
| Oh and to add one thing, is there anyone else than me who have eazmode against all mage/rogue teams atm? | |
| Hornbreakerz | Apr 25, 2009 - 11:03 AM (HideShow) |
| How the hell do u beat enh/jotw pala? The paladin outruns my DK, enh just mindlessly killing me never going oom (even purging my water shield), paladin don't go oom and we can't set up a kill because I have to heal all the time with water shield up... it ends with me either dying to wolves or going oom and dying... and every time we get the enh low, BAM holy shock and full hp again... just so frustrating... | |
| Jigorina | Apr 26, 2009 - 1:23 PM (HideShow) |
| Kite the shaman, put slows whatever. Sure he have the totem to remove slows but that's just once each 15 secs. Get your DK to drag the shaman when wolves are out or whenever you need to drink. Don't go for pala go for shaman should be my advice aswell. Then you can peel, pala gets preasured in another way than when he just runs faster than DK and remember to always keep water shield up. If he have to waste global on purging then he can't do damage with it and so on. Notice that's what I should do and have only met enha/priest by now but should be about same tactics with difference that priest can burn but not go oom while pala don't go oom but can't burn. | |
| Reckon | Apr 28, 2009 - 4:43 PM (HideShow) |
| You had time to play some games this season Rice, and are you planning an update any time soon? Looking forward to it as some things have changed. | |
| Darkstrife | Apr 29, 2009 - 11:21 AM (HideShow) |
| Rice, first off...I love the strategy guide. My 2v2 team lives and dies by it. I had a question about the Warrior/Healer Pally combo fight. I read the guide, but wanted some further info. Still not sure how to beat this team. Any other healer and we seem to have a chance, but with this team, my pet is worthless due to the constant fears by the pally. What is your strategy in this one? | |
| Darkstrife | Apr 29, 2009 - 11:22 AM (HideShow) |
| Oh, and my team is DK and Shammy...not this hunter. | |
| Jigorina | Apr 29, 2009 - 11:42 AM (HideShow) |
| Just so that you know the guide for that is from s5 not s6. Warriors are really good atm. Sorry rice for taking your job :P but I'm kinda bored when I can't do arena so I always hang around on forums somewhere. Who dies first you or shaman, as mentioned overall you should try to slow the DK and so on, shaman can always dispell freedom you know. Save Grip for when shaman really needs help. Stoneclaw=Win in many cases aswell so use that on each cooldown or when you expect something big to go up. Don't know really since that team is a real pain only met and won them once and don't want to face them again. But you have to go defensive, but also take risks when you think that you can get pala down. | |
| Darkstrife | Apr 29, 2009 - 12:17 PM (HideShow) |
| Jigorina, usually our goal is to play defensive. I switch between both the pally and warrior attacking to keep up diseases (to keep pally busy), and constantly pull the warrior close to me. Once one of them gets around 60ish%, we do a fake burn. Shammy hexes pally and we both fake an unload, hoping to get the pally to trinket and bubble. After CD for hex is up, we do it again, but this time I strangulate after and pull out gargoyle. That's our goal...but my shammy seems to die before we can get that far. Bad strategy on our part? What do you suggest? | |
| Jigorina | Apr 29, 2009 - 12:48 PM (HideShow) |
| Uhm don't really know, hard to say unless I know how shaman is playing. But tell him to watch out for the extra ms so that they get 75%. That's a kill for warrior. If they get it up too often it's over. Fake cast when you see the icon for overpower (same as Hunger for Blood). And never ever spam heal. That is a really hard setup due to the 75% ms since shaman is overall a class with a lot of casting for healing and no real kite possibility when everyone have got same or better slow. If you get Relentless then I'd say you ES tank for the duration instead of running around. Saves some mana and hopefully your life, and only drag when shaman can run around corner or Warr will reset with a charge or intercept. | |
| Ricé | Apr 30, 2009 - 5:22 AM (HideShow) |
| Oi, still working on getting up there in 2's. We're 2300+ atm (same comp, same spec, same partner :P), looking pretty good so far. I'll try to have an updated version of this guide once we play more games. I think I've gotten the hang of s6 shaman/dk, but there's still a few things that I need to think about before I update. Jigorina, I have absolutely no problem with you responding on my guide since you seem to be quite knowledgeable and I agree with most of your stuff. Makes it easier for me :P Darkstrife: Warrior/paladin is extremely difficult (especially brewkz/tugget). You can kinda-sorta kite a druid/warrior around but with a paladin partner, you really can't expect help from your DK anymore. Your #1 priority is survival. You need to be over 50% hp at all times (both of you). As always, DG when shaman gets low so he can los. You want to land a kill on the paladin. Keeping your ghoul up also extremely crucial, albeit the hardest thing to do against this comp. You want hexes on the warrior to take pressure off so that your team can get topped off, since paladins almost always have the 30% hex reduction talent. In the end though, I consider it probably one of the toughest fights in s6 so far, so don't feel too bad if you lose. | |
| Reckon | Apr 30, 2009 - 8:32 AM (HideShow) |
| Me and my partner finally reached 2k again again..but we played most of our games with him as frost...and i don't know what difference will unholy make now as we haven't played too many games after he respecced but our hardest fights i must say were against priest/rogues :< if i meet that combo in Orgrimmar arena i just feel like crying as there is no way i can avoid mana burns especially when rogue is on me and now that i run OOM 3 times before a priest does it's impossible to win the mana war...looking forward to updates and maby some tips ^^ it's not like it used to be before 3.1 where if you could survive the first 30 seconds you most likely won :< | |
| Risfuro | Apr 30, 2009 - 9:08 PM (HideShow) |
| hey my partner has been out of town since s6 started but we were thinking of running a hungering cold/mastery of ghouls spec, and i'd go into toughness(thinking of also sacrificing some points for mana tide) , anyone play this set up or feedback on how you think it'll do? | |
| Traeumer | May 1, 2009 - 7:55 AM (HideShow) |
| we fight wari/pala same as wari/priest. My DK does good work so Warroir never really gets close to me, fight is like dk on wari, i hex wari dk switches to healer, MS runs off, i heal in 2 casts DK to full DK switches back to Warrior. vs Warroir/priest ist a freewin since priest goes oom very fast that way, vs pala its harder but doable | |
| Jigorina | May 2, 2009 - 5:11 PM (HideShow) |
| For Reckon. Against Priest/Rogue on that arena. Go to the big pillars at sides, on other sides of fire. When the pillars are down make DK be on priest so that he can't mana burn. Without burns and if you're good with drinking this shouldn't be a problem. The mana fight is won by those who play most tactial on that arena, even though priests, hunters and damage casters have a pretty good advantage on it. But I find it way more useful to use the big thick pillars. Risfuro: Can't say anything about DK going with Unholy one myself but for you I think that both Toughness and Mana Tide is something for the individual player. I don't want to play with either one of them since I have to sacrifice a lot of crit, if I can keep my DK topped with 2 heals from 5k then I'm happy and won't take as much mana and therefore won't need Mana Tide. Toughness is up to you if you think you need it or if you will do without it. For Traeumer: Not sure if the DK is doing good work or if pala is doing bad one. A pala can keep away slows from warr 90% of the time. Sure it seems pretty good but explain some more please many of us would like to hear. | |
| Kreuz | May 3, 2009 - 7:28 AM (HideShow) |
| I've also been playing this comp and so far we've gotten to the 1800 range (we both just started arena this season) and as unholy/resto we don't seem to be having much trouble with p/r teams unless it's cause of gear. The teams we mostly have probs with are those with wars, dks, and rogues with a druid, not so much the rogue as the wars and druids. What usualy ends up happening is as the druid is at about 50% mana he'll innervate for almost full mana, and then once he's down to ~40% after that I'll get DG's or charge lcoked by the war, the druid will cyclone me, then run as far as possible and drink without me being able to do anything cause trinks are down. Anyone else have an idea on how to beat a druid within a reasonable amount of time that doesn't require me to go do ulduar and have the stars align perfectly? | |
| Jigorina | May 4, 2009 - 4:52 PM (HideShow) |
| Well only time we kill a druid is when they make big mistakes tbh. Like standing in open with no hots up, then just fast change and hope for crits. And no my DK ain't Ulduar geared. But I find priest/rogue kinda hard, one mistake and it will be over. What I noticed in this season was that you have to play without making a mistake anywhere and use all their mistakes to your advantage or you won't stand a chance against the more popular comps. Rice would love if you can update the guide soon. The setup is nothing like it were before 3.1 anymore. I'm playing at decent rating but your guides have been really helpful. But for everyone out there, I think that this setup is more about outplaying your opponent now, in season 5 you could win by setup but that's not the case anymore and I think it gets a lot more fun that way. | |
| Kreuz | May 4, 2009 - 5:47 PM (HideShow) |
| Yea, this setup is definately harder to play than faceroll season 5 (quit soon because I found it too boring, so the few games don't really count as starting arena imo) and now that we're a little higher we're havin some probs, though it's mostly gear probs on my shammy's part, mostly his wep, shield, and totem. Hopefully once he updates those we won't get facerolled by a highly geared and skilled r/p team (think they had a dr timer addon, either that or they were just very good cause I couldn't do any damage for over a minute cause of chain CC and dismantle). That said, I love running into some of the holy/ret teams running in arena, they seem to be the easiest heal/dps team to fight against for us cause they can't really CC us and I can tend to SS the pally pretty heavily before my dots get removed. Well, hopefully I'll manage to get some furious or even some deadly gear from emalon/archavon once they reset this week. | |
| Ronfar | May 4, 2009 - 5:52 PM (HideShow) |
| hey fellow shamans, ive played DK/Shaman to 2k last season, but now i have a new DK partner and were doing extremely well against every team except priest rogue (obviously) and ret / rogue (They were extremely geared). My question is what do you try to do against P / R when the rogue saps the DK, then focuses on you? I ES myself, keep stoneclaw down when its off CD, and riptide myself preparing for the burst. If i do survive the inital barrage, rogue reopens, cheapshots and im dead. Were at about 1850 MMR so i feel it will only get rougher as we continue to climb | |
| Jigorina | May 5, 2009 - 8:38 AM (HideShow) |
| Dodge the retri teams to be honest, 1100 resi here and I really get downed in one HoJ. And double dps will always be hard those fights are more about your DK than you, how good he manage to get them off you. | |
| Eternîty | May 5, 2009 - 9:38 AM (HideShow) |
| Awesome guide man, still good in 3.1 :D | |
| Eternîty | May 5, 2009 - 9:42 AM (HideShow) |
| Hey Ronfar, well i just read ur comment and the only thing i could say is, if ur Dk gets sapped, put earth shield on u right away, u should already have all ur totems down (especially disease and poison cleansing). However, your Dk should do DnD and u guys should stand in it, if the priest passes by u can either purge or he can try and hit him with icy touch, all this to get in combat, if one of you 2 is in combat, the other needs to either buff the other or i think bandage works. this should maybe solve your sapped dk and you dying problem :D tell him not to be affraid to use DG. GL | |
| Jigorina | May 5, 2009 - 11:18 AM (HideShow) |
| Just as a not to DnD, a rogue can stand outside it and hit with sap due to some spec for range. If you're lucky he will fail but never expect him to. | |
| Kreuz | May 5, 2009 - 12:05 PM (HideShow) |
| Yea, it's a talent down subtlety that increases sap's range by 2 yards per point, so it's best to assume that all arena rogues have it since they're gonna run muti/prep. There's one of three ways that fights against p/r seem to happen against our team, they target the shammy keeping me in CC and kill him, they target the shammy, shammy lives initial burst and we draw the game out a lil longer and manage to get a kill, or they CC the shammy and I wail on them both since they can't kill me while I'm unholy unless they severely outgear us. So far, the tactic of keeping down tremor tot in the p/r guide hasn't helped us against good teams since the priest and rogue will keep me CC'd and destroy the tot before even the first tick. That said if it's a bad team or you just get lucky, the rogue will get hit by DnD or the priest will make the mistake of getting into the DK's los in a map like Blade's Edge (rogue and priest on bridge, priest gets on edge and get's dg + bursted = gg if they're lower geared). | |
| Risfuro | May 5, 2009 - 1:59 PM (HideShow) |
| against P/R from what i hear, 1) lich borne makes the dk immune to sap, he could blow it get in combat and u heal him AND 2) blood boil in broken, and u can spam it to get rogues out of stealth. i havent played this season yet so im not positive about these, but from what i heard it can really help against p/r | |
| Jigorina | May 5, 2009 - 2:18 PM (HideShow) |
| Well what you say that if shaman survives first nuke then you win is kinda wrong right now, priest have got enough mana to keep going forever. Best chance is if they go for DK really. If they go for shaman than charge the rogue. Priest can miss something when trying to do damage, remember to play on their mistakes and not make any. That's like the only way to win I guess, it's a pain if you're undergeared (my DK is compared to those we face). Blind and Fear nerf was really good though, meaning that only the more skilled teams will actually go high. No more fear spam mana burn for a total of 50% mana. But to win you have to play at 110% all the time and make 0 mistakes. | |
| Kreuz | May 5, 2009 - 2:52 PM (HideShow) |
| Yea, didn't mean to make it sound like it was an auto-win if you survived the burst, just that we tend to run into people that blow absolutely everything and because it usually gets the win for them they don't know what to do after, kind of like a dual dps team that usually wins by bursting off all cds, most don't know what to do if the other team lives and they sometimes get confused. It tends to be more of a 50/50 won/loss if we survive against a good p/r burst, and about an 80/20 if they don't know what the hell they're doing half the time. It's usually easy for us to tell which p/r teams are being carried by their comp cause the priest will have less than 20k hp, they can't burst us down given the tools they have, which they don't use, and have a really high MMR, while some of the better teams are actually at a lower MMR cause they just started up and actually know how to play their classes. But yea, the best chance of winning is indeed if they attack me over the shaman, it's usually a 95% chance for us to win when they attack me just cause they waste all of their CDs and don't get me below 80% cause of my shaman's heals. Also at Ris, lichborne will make you immune to sap if used before it, can't use it to break it, and any p/r team worth their salt will have you chained in no time unless you can pull out the 20 rp fast enough for an AMS...which basically makes you say goodbye to 2 of your defensive cds from the start. Also, I prefer not to use the BB spam crutch since they're gonna fix it soon anyway, so it's better to not lean on it now and play with skills that aren't broken. That tends to be the major diff between glad teams and other teams, in that true gladiator teams don't have to win by using exploits or bugs to win, they win through skill and gear. | |
| Ronfar | May 5, 2009 - 3:28 PM (HideShow) |
| Thanks for the insight guys, when i do games this week ill apply all ther stuff i learned. Still hard to just outlast a rogue for the DK to nuke the priest, even with blowing all my cooldowns. I dont have time to even try to purge, hex, or anything offensive since the whole time im laying totems or healing myself struggling to survive. Amazing what T7.5 can do. | |
| Mournful | May 6, 2009 - 9:00 AM (HideShow) |
| I have been playing resto shaman/unholy DK throughout all of s5 and now into s6, and I noticed a trend with this comp. There WILL be teams you CANNOT beat. A wellplayed mage/rogue or warlock/mage team will faceroll you during the chain cc's and there is little to nothing you can do about it. Yes, in the 1500-2k bracket, teams will make mistakes, and you can capitalize on them to beat a mage/rogue or warlock/mage. Once you hit the 2k+ teams, they do not make anywhere near as many mistakes. Just a peice of advice to my fellow Dk's, if you are unholy spec, stay in unholy presence. The short GCD is much more important than the 15% damage increase. The reason why is you can literally catch a healer at like 75% hp and kill him very easily with a strangulate/Deathcoil/Deathcoil/Deathcoil/Scourge Stike/Scourge Strike. If he is not dead by the end of the Strangulate, use your pet's Gnaw, and Blood Strike him a few times. My shaman and I are currently 2150, 2300 matchmaking rating, and the ONLY way we are able to beat the 2400 rated teams is with a quick switch to a healer, with a strangulate combo and a little added dps from the shaman is helpful. Good luck and Happy Hunting | |
| Jigorina | May 6, 2009 - 9:55 AM (HideShow) |
| Mournful, just so that you know you can really beat all teams, I've faced most comps and have won to all of them at least once. Some are harder but none is impossible, mage/rogue is easy if you're doing it right (and spec into AMZ for that very useful). Warlock/Mage can be hard but no impossible either just gotta time all your groundings and siliences in a good way, better to ground a shatter combo than just mage use one lance and it's gone. | |
| Makkator | May 6, 2009 - 10:39 AM (HideShow) |
| hi, do u use buffs like windfury oder flametongue? | |
| Jigorina | May 6, 2009 - 3:24 PM (HideShow) |
| Btw, anyone can give me tips against warr/druid. Faced them earlier 2 times we won both but played 35 mins in first game and 25 in second. Warr deal so much damage and druid never seem to go oom, may have been Blade's edge arena that made it a little harder since pet can't be on druid in same way there but I'd like some help with those. | |
| Kreuz | May 6, 2009 - 4:39 PM (HideShow) |
| To beat them in any short amount of time is more luck from what I've seen. If you can get an opener on the druid and not let him get off any hots then it's game over right there, otherwise pray they make a mistake like spreading out too much while los and gib the war. You can make a druid go oom eventually, but even with low mana they can keep rolling life bloom since it can return mana at the end now, so the best chance at a short game is to just blow the druid up without them knowing what happened to em, at least that's what we did. That said, if it's a more skilled/geared team, it'll definately be hard to catch em either off guard or in a bad spot, so expect a lot of long games with the comp. Here's my question...how the heck do you beat dual rogue teams where the rogues are pushin a lot of pve gear -_- My shaman gets blown up before I can really do anything and then when I finally manage to stay out of CC I get dismantled... | |
| Traeumer | May 7, 2009 - 6:43 AM (HideShow) |
| i try to dispell when lifebloom has 3 stacks, so i dispell 2 stacks but since lifebloom is still on 1 stack the druid loses the mana from 2 lifeblooms that he would have gotten. Have the DK do fast swithes on the dudu so he hots himself up then switch back to wari, that way the druid goes oom really fast. also have DK switch to dudu while hes in caster form at a bad spot to cast cyclone. | |
| Jigorina | May 7, 2009 - 4:08 PM (HideShow) |
| Druids get the mana back even when you dispell the lifebloom, they get half mana cost back when it completes duration or when it is dispelled, so they don't lose much mana except that they will add new. Not as easy as you may think. If druid have full hot you won't get him down at all and it's fast to apply them aswell. You won't get a good druid down unless he do a couple of mistakes. | |
| Kreuz | May 7, 2009 - 6:50 PM (HideShow) |
| Exactly, if it turns out to be a rather long game, pray you can survive and switch targets a lot to get him to hot up both of em, it'll eat away at their mana faster and you can sometimes catch him unawares with a quick swap and no hots on him, but as I said earlier, if they're a skilled group, expect some long games, unless you get a lucky crit string... | |
| Ronfar | May 8, 2009 - 4:31 PM (HideShow) |
| Yeah I had a 10 min fight against Warr druid, we ended up winning because my DK switched a few times, and was good on peels so I could drink often. Those matches are annoying because a good druid can stay alive for a while unless you get him in a bad position. | |
| Jigorina | May 8, 2009 - 5:07 PM (HideShow) |
| I end up with all my Warr/druid fights at least 20 mins unless we lose before that, and if someone want to know I'm trying to make an arena video from 2300+ Matchmaking on bloodlust bg. But what can I do seriously, I can barely outheal the 50% ms from warriors they deal too much damage, and well NS ain't really a good spell anymore we got like no other defense that is effective. Sure I can kite with the problem that I'm slowed aswell and warrior have bladestorm. The druid will always last longer than I do in healing, mana and so on. Warrior will last longer than DK and deal more damage + MS. Have to outplay them 100 times over or it's gg unless someone can give me some kind of super trick for beating them. | |
| Ronfar | May 8, 2009 - 5:39 PM (HideShow) |
| "Well NS ain't really a good spell anymore" True. especially when you have warrs and rogues with healing reduction effects that gib the hell outta you and its impossible to heal the amount of pressure they put out | |
| Jigorina | May 9, 2009 - 11:45 AM (HideShow) |
| I heal about 6k NS crit vs rogue or warr, easy against retri unless I die in stun. | |
| Jigorina | May 10, 2009 - 11:21 AM (HideShow) |
| For those who want to know I've made some clips from my arena games, send messege if you want to see them. Sorry for taking space here to say it. May be helpful haven't got many comps atm but at least some of the bigger ones. | |
| Лазурус | May 10, 2009 - 6:25 PM (HideShow) |
| Couple Words about Warrior/healer ?? Anyone has some expirience to share with.. (just Started playing with my friend dk few days ago) It really seems to me like shamans doesnt have any chances to stand against them with new and improved "Charge" | |
| Jigorina | May 11, 2009 - 10:53 AM (HideShow) |
| I say pretty much the same, have DK to have slow on warr all the time if possible, and grip in the right moments. Won't make it an instant win but better chance than just tanking warr and hope for the best... | |
| Jigorina | May 11, 2009 - 3:40 PM (HideShow) |
| Notice that it will close to never work but it's the best chance you got. | |
| Gramdar | May 12, 2009 - 1:53 PM (HideShow) |
| hey im an unholy DK playing with a resto shaman. i do everything i have read on allt he forums, i play well, i have been playing arena since it came out (on my druid before my DK) i got to the high 1900s on my druid. getting to the point, i have played with a druid, paladin and shaman on my dk and have not broken... like... 1680. i have no idea why. imo i play well and atm, my shaman is very good (my last druid was also very good) and i am still apparently failing. any ideas / tips? | |
| Reckon | May 13, 2009 - 8:39 AM (HideShow) |
| How's the updating going Rice? When can we expect to see the new changes?Looking forward to tips vs rogue/priest combos..as well for warriors/rets +healers , they actually seem worst than priest/rogue :< | |
| Getrolled | May 14, 2009 - 7:47 AM (HideShow) |
| @Reckon Although I can't speak for Rice I can give you advice from my own experience (2190 team). Against a PR the first minute is usually the most important, and will decide the rest of the match. The majority of priest/rogues will go super offensive and lock one of you down while the other gets blown up. Since they fixed the DR on blind, the rogue usually pops vanish to get off a full duration sap - all I can is do everything in your power to let your partner survive. If they're sitting on you, pop earthshield on yourself and try to shock any offense spells the priest hits you with. It's important to dodge the kick. If you don't, there's a good chance you'll die. Get your partner to pull away ASAP. Dalaran sewers, circle of blood, and ring of valor are amazing for this. On sewers, stay near the edge of the boxes for a quick pull. Make sure you stand up against the boxes or the rogue will be able to just jump up and down and keep hitting you. Circle of blood, sit on the little rope on top in between the pillar and the bridge. It basically gives your DK clear LoS to pull the rogue down. On RoV, get over to the big pillars. If your DK can get a pull there, it's almost always a win as most rogues will take too long to switch back. EVERY mana burn/holy fire needs to be shocked, there should NEVER be a time when he gets one off, unless your grounding/shocks are on cooldown. Your DK should be putting enough pressure on the rogue if he's on you that the priest MUST heal. The proper rotation (which also fucks up mostly anyone that's under 2k) is shock + grounding + shock, followed by a hex, followed by the same combo. It'll often force a trinket and blow through a bunch of his mana, usually including PS. If the DK is being focused, make sure you NEVER stand near your tremor. Most priests will run from position to position meleeing your tremor totems - take advantage of this. Drop one down, move 10 feet away. It's very easy to avoid priest fears. They shouldn't get more than 1-2 off a fight. Hex is something I never | |
| Getrolled | May 14, 2009 - 7:51 AM (HideShow) |
| Also I might as well add: Since druids are pretty much becoming FoTM healers, the easiest way to win against ANY druid team is to run them out of mana. Blow one up, let the druid throw some hots on him, then switch to the druid so he hots himself up. Keep switching back and forth, you WILL win (unless its druid/rogue, it's incredibly hard for your DK to switch against that team). Just purge innervate when you see it, unless they've got barkskin up, and you should be good to go. | |
| Reckon | May 14, 2009 - 8:53 AM (HideShow) |
| Just played a few games these days and Unholy just seems much better than frost :) we haven't lost any game against priest rogue in Orgrimmar arena because rogue couldn't sap us, and yes first minute of the fight seems the most important...who gets more pressure wins. It's about luck as well but practice makes perfect :).Winning against teams 300 MMR higher is nice | |
| Chibb | May 14, 2009 - 2:25 PM (HideShow) |
| I play a DK/Resto druid, and I was wondering what you all do against War/healer Esp a druid or Shammy healer. Basically My DK can't kill the healer and the War slowly eats away at me until I'm dead (last match 33 min). If the DK sits on the war the healer can drink unless I'm very careful, but with the MS it's hard to win the mana war, and War don't normally go down in one CC chain. | |
| Lagrimas | May 14, 2009 - 2:41 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey I need some advice on Disc Priest/Arms Warr. The warr constantly beating on me and DG is useless for peeling him off by DK. And the disc priest is a pain in the ass too. Suggestions?! | |
| Jigorina | May 14, 2009 - 3:50 PM (HideShow) |
| Lagrimas: Just go for the priest and try to survive the warr yourself, if you're playing good and you can throw in some purges once in a while priest will probably drop before you do, and use DG in useful ways like second before you run around a corner. And make sure you see opponents health bars over their heads for kiting in like nagrand. | |
| Getrolled | May 14, 2009 - 4:18 PM (HideShow) |
| Whoa, just realized half my post got cut off, oh well. | |
| Jigorina | May 15, 2009 - 9:27 AM (HideShow) |
| Continue from where it go cut off, may be useful :) | |
| Reckon | May 17, 2009 - 1:21 PM (HideShow) |
| Okay...I officially need help :( What the hell can we do against rets..ret/druid mostly...the druid it's just not running OOM and even with switching targets i run oom 3 times before the druid does...and eventually pally catches my in a stun with trinket on CD and i'm dead..tips? | |
| Jigorina | May 17, 2009 - 4:55 PM (HideShow) |
| Sit down and cry... I seriously don't know outlasted a team for 25 mins then I died in a HoJ. | |
| Holia | May 18, 2009 - 10:52 AM (HideShow) |
| Yo thanks for the guide I found the perfect dk for me and we are done practising going 2k pronto... any tips or dk/resto druid? | |
| Holia | May 18, 2009 - 3:00 PM (HideShow) |
| http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?shaman=00000000000000000000000000050523010000000000000000000050032331335013501020331251&glyph=000000000000&version=9901 I belive this is the best speec also 3.1 since mana tide no longer needs 6 but only 4 points to get. | |
| Jigorina | May 18, 2009 - 3:41 PM (HideShow) |
| OMG found a good way to play against resto druids today!!! Worked in 50% of all our games, 3/6 won against druid/warr, druid/rogue, druid/DK whatever it should work against all of them. Well anyway to the point. Druid/Rogue is a bit different, sit on rogue and druid will go oom before you do if you play well with keeping him in combat and still get a moment to drink yourself. Fast target switching often=Win. Noticed that if you smash druid, and make him full hot himself. Change to his partner and dps some and he will full hot. Keep going until hots on druids are gone, change target again and keep going. It's very mana costy to keep refreshing the hots on 2 different targets all the time (costs double mana from just yourself). Just gotta live long enough for that to work (which I find is the hard part). But I'm happy with that way of doing it and think that it's well worth a try. And shamans remember to be ready for dispelling Innervate when it shows up. | |
| Muminmamman | May 21, 2009 - 4:42 AM (HideShow) |
| Hi, i'm pretty much starting to play arenas, i'm with ele shaman, but he will soon respec for resto. I have a question about Druid Druid setup, while ago we have lost to those because of fast shapeshifting and 2 innervates, they were healing themselves all of the time, purge haven't really helped here. We was switching targets all the fight and as frost DK i was keeping snare on both of them almost 80% of the fight, but still we lost. In that match my partner was in ele, maybe as resto we could win, but that fight was almost impossible for us to survive, constant hots, 2 bears, how we should handle them? And also... how (as DK) should i keep both opponents away from shaman, so he can drink? It seems almost impossible for me (as i said - i'm starting). | |
| Holia | May 21, 2009 - 6:26 AM (HideShow) |
| Well ele/dk I don't know but as resto/dk he won't have trouble drinking just get him out of los and if it's 2x dps u just take the meele of him and he can drink no problem at that and if it's 2x meele those fights tend to be fast so he won't even need to drink and as for ur druid/druid question I honestly dunno cuz I didn't encounter that setup ever. | |
| Jigorina | May 21, 2009 - 10:35 AM (HideShow) |
| Haven't encountered druid/druid yet, but I'm not sure what setup they're running really. What did they spec? I get the feeling that they're going double resto but that doesn't seem to hard if resto druid cause then you will outlast them big time. But I don't think that's the case. So tell what specs they played and we may be able to help you. | |
| Jigorina | May 21, 2009 - 3:36 PM (HideShow) |
| About my earlier comment about warr/druid, it works for real. Won all games we played today against them 6/6. And I'm uploading some warr/druid fights on xfire if you want to know. Don't think these were any good ones, except for maybe one but well always something to look at. | |
| Holia | May 22, 2009 - 5:16 AM (HideShow) |
| if you upload a video plz link the website here really eager to check it out ^^ | |
| Jigorina | May 22, 2009 - 9:09 AM (HideShow) |
| http://www.xfire.com/profile/jigorina/videos/ Uploading most of my arena games there. Working on a movie aswell, will be using the clips there though but with editing and stuff. May be a bit boring to watch haven't done anything special with the clips. | |
| Linnéa | May 23, 2009 - 3:14 PM (HideShow) |
| What presence would you suggest for going maximum Offensive? Thanks. | |
| Jigorina | May 23, 2009 - 3:52 PM (HideShow) |
| Blood presence, 15% more damage is a lot. But switch Frost Presence as soon as you get focused, even if it's just for a little moment, saves a lot of mana for shaman. | |
| Saturi | May 25, 2009 - 4:20 AM (HideShow) |
| Great write-ups and comments. I have learned a lot. But I am at a loss as to how to keep the other DPS on me (DK). If they tunnel vision my shaman, what do I need to do? I DG/Chains the melee, AMZ or strangle if the opposing healer goes offensive. But no matter what I do, they tunnel vision my shaman. What can I do to stop this? | |
| Jigorina | May 25, 2009 - 10:34 AM (HideShow) |
| You can't "Stop" it, use the Chains to help shaman get away, each second free time is a good second you know. Try to grip when shaman run behind a corner or when he need to drink or have problems. If they chose to tunnelvision you shaman then you can't stop them 100% but you can make it harder for them and easier for you shaman. | |
| Blowi | May 26, 2009 - 7:34 AM (HideShow) |
| Only noobs play this comp! | |
| Reckon | May 26, 2009 - 10:59 AM (HideShow) |
| OMG :< who killed Rice:< gief update o mighty one!! We're running out of rice :< | |
| Athígros | May 27, 2009 - 10:44 PM (HideShow) |
| Hmmmmm.. your guide seems fine. But i stubled over this. "(105 rating for non-draenei, ~79 rating for draenei)" The PvP hit cap is 5% and 105hit rating gives 4%... So why only 105 as non-draebeu and 79 as draenei? | |
| Ricé | May 27, 2009 - 10:55 PM (HideShow) |
| Sorry for the lack of an update... haven't been playing 2's a whole lot. Druids suck and I don't know how to beat them if they have a warrior or DK. | |
| Jigorina | May 28, 2009 - 11:11 AM (HideShow) |
| Athígros, it's 4% hit in pvp for spells. And yes Ricé they're a pain, ooming the druid before you go oom is almost impossible. Switching works for me but I'm not on 2.5k rating... Well hope that we get any useful shaman buffs or that druid get a serious nerf, only seen buffs this far. | |
| Evintar | May 28, 2009 - 8:20 PM (HideShow) |
| some1 should make a guide for ret/dk and every strat should be "LOLFACEROLL" | |
| Mistasparkle | May 30, 2009 - 7:40 AM (HideShow) |
| Just tossing this out there for Rice and other shamans, I play at about the 2K ratings right now, my DK and I have never been gladiators, so we are new to the higher up ratings, however we have developed a strategy against RestoDruid/Warrior that has been decent so far. Since implementing the new strat, we have been 5-0 against the comp. We open the fight in Frost Pres on the warrior, ES up and such. We play relatively defensively, though I purge both targets down as soon as possible. Leaving them with no buffs our pet sits on the druid, dpsing as my DK continues to whack on the War. When the druid gets to about 60% mana, I repurge him, to clear any active buffs and then my DK hard switching while I spam purge, keeping Lifebloom and Rejuv off the target. During this we try to line up the ability to keep the warrior in a hex, though if the druid is decent/cocky he may save/waste a GCD to get him out. Anywho, we continue this purge-spam/DPS run on the druid (I am frostshocking in between shifts if my DK can't slow him) and there are a few possible outcomes from here. A. The druid goes to nourish spam, and we will continue to burn him, mind freeze/shock and strangulate here. Normally if he goes to nourish with me still able to spam purge, we've won. B. He will start to oom from spamming hots, manage to get away and innervate. If this happens I can attempt to purge the innervate, but if BS is up, its hard. We let him mana up, hard switch to the warrior and reset the entire process. C. Druid will leave a brown stain in his pants and fall over dead, questioning existence and what the hell just happened. Now, so far the highest MMR druid/warrior we've killed with this strat was 2050, so I can't say how the really top end people will handle this, but it seems to work, and certainly forces a druid OOM fast. During the entire process my DK will be buying me drinks wherever he can, and keeping constant pressure on that warrior until the switch. Often the druid will recover and we just switch, going back to defensive and | |
| Jigorina | May 30, 2009 - 3:05 PM (HideShow) |
| Mistasparkle, it's just one thing that's missing. If your tactic fail first time you will lose cause you oom from purging. Purge is very mana costy if we're to say like that, and risks are that you will oom before druid does. | |
| Mistasparkle | May 30, 2009 - 5:13 PM (HideShow) |
| Oh I agree Jigorina, its risky to do, but we ONLY do the purge runs when I am 70% or more mana, and we make sure the druid is lower then me. You really have to set this strategy up a lot for it to work. We play defensive, make sure I am drinking and making sure they are both purged of the base druid buffs. It happens quick, with my DK saving CDs and runes for the switch. If he starts to get ahead of the rush, I stop purging to save my mana and start to 5/8 the warrior and control him. My DK stays on the druid until the druid is fully hotted, then we switch back. You just have to keep on forcing them to blow a lot of mana, while being defensive in between the purge runs. Im not saying its perfect, but it's the best we've done. | |
| Mistasparkle | May 30, 2009 - 5:14 PM (HideShow) |
| We manage to reset after this all the time as well, because of how defensive the druid/warrior go. The warrior will attempt to peel my DK, and then he will go defensive, and I will top/hot him up and then go drink. | |
| Jigorina | Jun 1, 2009 - 2:08 PM (HideShow) |
| Ok fair enough, but if you don't manage to reset cause they notice you are trying to then you will lose. Can work at times but not always. Will try it though if we fail with the constant target switching and defensive game. | |
| Mistasparkle | Jun 2, 2009 - 4:10 PM (HideShow) |
| Basically similar strategies, constant switches, we just throw in purges on the druid when he gets low. Don't over extend your resources, always :) | |
| Pitcoee | Jun 2, 2009 - 9:34 PM (HideShow) |
| Update guide pls !:) | |
| Saturi | Jun 7, 2009 - 11:37 PM (HideShow) |
| I've found that resto druid teams are best handled by switching targets every 20 seconds. Full hots, switch, full hots, switch. We generally out mana full pvp geared resto druids, even with innervate. | |
| Jigorina | Jun 10, 2009 - 9:14 AM (HideShow) |
| Yes but it still require DK to have dpsers of you so that you can drink 24/7. But very useful tactic if you play well, 100% win vs druids after we started using it. | |
| Xepp | Jun 10, 2009 - 3:05 PM (HideShow) |
| Rice have my babies! I miss destroying IF with you! | |
| Ricé | Jun 12, 2009 - 6:56 AM (HideShow) |
| Sent update to admins, should be updated any day now. | |
| Tyveris | Jun 14, 2009 - 3:01 AM (HideShow) |
| Updated. | |
| Jigorina | Jun 14, 2009 - 3:30 AM (HideShow) |
| Can I ask why you are specced in Healing Wave less cast time? Cause I never use it except with NS. I think that you get a lot more benefit from less mana on totems? And why not full in Ancestral Healing? Since 95% of teams are melee dependant teams it seems pretty useful to me, and especially vs warriors who can counter us hard. And for a second note, you only tell us how to play defensive vs the warr/druid teams, and you don't even mention the target switching tactic (which have worked great for many). | |
| Kronikzlol | Jun 14, 2009 - 5:17 AM (HideShow) |
| Rice are you going to write a 3s guide next? | |
| Ricé | Jun 14, 2009 - 5:57 AM (HideShow) |
| Haha, I dunno, I just may! It would certainly be an interesting piece to write up. Jigorina: I use HW in situations where I'm healdrinking or if it's double dps on my partner. Plus, I use the same spec in PvE as well, and it helps there too. I just don't think a 25% reduction on totems is really worth it right now, since most of the important totems are only a few hundred mana usually. | |
| Ricé | Jun 14, 2009 - 5:58 AM (HideShow) |
| I also noticed that this is the only guide with a DK in it O_o | |
 Aimadox | Jun 14, 2009 - 6:34 AM (HideShow) |
| Nobody likes dks rice ! :D | |
| Jigorina | Jun 14, 2009 - 9:52 AM (HideShow) |
| Oh can I ask one more thing :P What health do you suggest I should try to get, right now I'm at 1044 resi, about 22.5k health and 2388 spell power. Still got possible items to upgrade so could be nice to know what to change and if you have any suggestions. I know gearing is individual but somewhere to start is always good. | |
| Ricé | Jun 14, 2009 - 4:39 PM (HideShow) |
| Int on shield - 25 int is >> 12 resil. | |
| Docdoom | Jun 15, 2009 - 1:35 AM (HideShow) |
| omg rice should we really expect to lose about 70% of time ... cuz that's about what u said in the new guide we only really beat lock/rogue and ret/healer ... how do u get 2400 with that ratio .. or do we just beat any other team not writen in the guide :P | |
| Ricé | Jun 15, 2009 - 2:25 AM (HideShow) |
| Obviously not all of the comps are covered so far.. but I'm writing the guide based off my own experiences in the higher brackets. There's always the chance that you massively outplay a counter-comp and pull off a win, but in the higher brackets, it happens less and less. | |
| Gordonbombay | Jun 16, 2009 - 1:23 AM (HideShow) |
| this thread blows. | |
| Snoozzletoes | Jun 16, 2009 - 1:25 AM (HideShow) |
| ^ | |
| Ricé | Jun 16, 2009 - 1:49 AM (HideShow) |
| I agree. | |
 Sohaimc | Jun 16, 2009 - 3:12 AM (HideShow) |
| lol nice way to solve the outbreaking population of dk in servers anyway i agree with you in the gear paragraph: "The best in slot for weapon is obviously Val'Anyr" | |
| Whényøudie | Jun 16, 2009 - 10:02 AM (HideShow) |
| nice thread but i really don't think its useful b/c the best healer is not a shaman unless its named Rice :D, *unless ur sick of the druids paladins and priets who complain avidly and the resto shamans r actually more often than not nice b/c they don't expect to b bombin heals and outmanaing no matter how stupid they r | |
| Anybodykilla | Jun 17, 2009 - 3:20 AM (HideShow) |
| Okay, Sorry to bug ya. But its killing me to know. While I've attempted largly on have a heavy dps arms warrior as a 2's teammate. It didn't work as well as I imagined it would. Now i have a enchan shaman and myself as resto he has about 800+ res im sitting at 640 (i know that bad for a resto shaman to be sitting that low but hey! I can honestly say im a tough cookie to crumble. Well against anything but a ret pally *screams thank god for the nerf inc!*) Anyways. Sooo. Could you possibly work up a strat for a resto/enchan? We arn't bad i mean we went from 0-1092 in a 1.5 days /shrug. I can honstly say we do play like so, Against any team we always hex the dps (usually will trinket that's where the second shaman comes in for another hex as diminishing returns on hex is up before the player even trinkets) Then we rush the healer and kill it quickly using Blood-lust and spirit wolfs the healer is like a piece of paper in a shredder ( to say the least) The only problem we have is this one horrible team. Its a ret pally and resto druid....I find druids to be incredibly annoying at times. They just heal for days imo. So we fought them back to back matchs lasting anywhere from 10-25 mins each just because we couldnt down that resto druid before the hexs wore off ( which to be smart the druid could of cleasned it but i guess that's where mistakes are made) We lost once and beat them the other time just because the druid went afk so it was free points! Thanks in advance for any advice you might have! (oh and i use the 0/20/51 spec just becuase the health increase is a nice addition for my lack of resil.) -Anybodykilla (Khadgar, Us) | |
| Ricé | Jun 17, 2009 - 6:33 AM (HideShow) |
| Wall of text crits Rice for 19438 (133943823 overkill). Rice dies. | |
| Blowi | Jun 17, 2009 - 7:15 AM (HideShow) |
| hi | |
| NeverenÐer | Jun 18, 2009 - 9:18 AM (HideShow) |
| I just wanted to say that this comp guide is awsome Ricé! Me and a resto sham friend of mine just started and even though he is super undergeared currently we are able to beat teams that we shouldnt be beating (gear wise) because of your suggestions. Keep doin what you do! Thanks again! | |
| Anybodykilla | Jun 18, 2009 - 11:09 PM (HideShow) |
| Sorry I critted you with my wall of text rofl. | |
| Nipz | Jun 19, 2009 - 5:25 PM (HideShow) |
| Whats the secret to staying alive with a warrior on you? Usually I die with after a hamstring and bladestorm which is super retarded >_> | |
| Zooyamos | Jun 20, 2009 - 12:35 PM (HideShow) |
| Guys you can go see my shaman on armory and at the same time could you tell me wich stat i could and should improve...i have a hardtime surviving dks or warriors..have any tips..+ manatide...is it worthit... | |
| Armuhgeddon | Jun 20, 2009 - 2:04 PM (HideShow) |
| hey rice!, i gotta be honest u know this comp very well, i played with a full furious priest on this alt and i have currently full hateful, cuz its an alt, but the other day i picked up a resto shaman and we went 9-1, our only loss was because he dcd.... i really appreciate it man thanks | |
| Saberus | Jun 21, 2009 - 8:58 PM (HideShow) |
| @Nipz what my team tries to do is, if available, have your DK DG the warrior from you. If that's not possible I usually do a stoneclaw totem, ES on me and spam lesser healing wave. You must have the mana to do that, if you don't you are out of luck because if the warrior still has MS on you your mana will be drained very very fast. It will be a good time to ask for help from your dk after the bladestorm so you can drink+mana tide | |
| Aevii | Jun 22, 2009 - 4:43 PM (HideShow) |
| ricey owns. | |
| Ricé | Jun 23, 2009 - 6:46 AM (HideShow) |
| There's no secret to surviving a warrior on you other than juking overpowers/pummels and pray that he doesn't crit too much. That's the honest truth. | |
| Shaman | Jun 23, 2009 - 10:47 PM (HideShow) |
| Could we see a mirror team strategy please? | |
 Velcetra | Jun 25, 2009 - 7:06 PM (HideShow) |
| Im wondering what you would do versus rogue/mage... becouse we met 12 mage/rogue's (3 different teams) in a row and lost over 120 points and 200 MMR to them and they make me want to /quit at the sight of them... | |
| Jigorina | Jun 26, 2009 - 8:18 AM (HideShow) |
| Just try to spam heal yourself through it, hope for lucky cleansing dispells and grounds... They control DK so much so that you probably won't win even if the gods would strike them down for you. | |
| Velcetra | Jun 26, 2009 - 1:00 PM (HideShow) |
| Id have a chance if they started at 40% health :P | |
| Jigorina | Jun 26, 2009 - 3:12 PM (HideShow) |
| Nah you have to hope they make a mistake actually. Won today by rogue opening to early when mage were too far away, mage got low and both had to go defensive easing the healing a lot. | |
| Velcetra | Jun 26, 2009 - 3:36 PM (HideShow) |
| Yes , we do get wins against them if they make mistakes , but the 3 teams we met didn't make any major enough to capitalize... | |
| Jigorina | Jun 27, 2009 - 1:23 PM (HideShow) |
| Well too bad, as it's said don't expect to win, don't think Ricé win a lot vs them either. I've had 30% rogue mage last weeks and well rating drops like a stone. | |
| Velcetra | Jun 27, 2009 - 1:29 PM (HideShow) |
| Didn't i play against you last week jig? XD i remember your name from a match hahahaa , dont see a lot of mirrors. and yeah i guess ur right. | |
| Neux | Jun 27, 2009 - 2:12 PM (HideShow) |
| We've been having problems with rogue/mage and I was wondering how you two deal with them, but it looks like we're not the only ones.. Our general strategy is for me to run up and try to get my pet onto the mage as quickly as possible to avoid sap on myself, then try to force an early cloak on the rogue when he (usually) opens on my shaman who has gotten in combat in turn by healing me, then DG/CoI on him. In the meantime the mage has generally run in to go for a sheep on me so I pop Lichborne and get on him to make him play defensively, while still trying to maintain CoI on the rogue if possible, hopefully getting a Hex off on him.. The main goal for me at this point is just to split up their DPS to keep heals manageable. I'll usually pop strangulate as I get close then AMS soon after, depending on how things are going my shaman will purge him as well. We've actually done alright with this lately so far, but obviously we're on the lower end of the 2s bracket at the moment (going up though! :D) | |
| Velcetra | Jun 27, 2009 - 2:15 PM (HideShow) |
| Under 2k rating , yeah that's plausible... but when you face a full PVE geared rogue with ulduar hardmode and/or t2 furious weaponry , all hope is lost. | |
| Primacy | Jun 28, 2009 - 2:45 PM (HideShow) |
| How much spell pen do i need? I currently have only 35 from cloak enchant. So if i gem 1x +20 spellpen is it enough? | |
| Jigorina | Jun 28, 2009 - 4:24 PM (HideShow) |
| I'm just using 35 spell pen and works for me... Can be a bit harder to dispell druid and mage but nothing else. Since most mage teams are lost anyway and druids have so many buffs to protect themselfs. | |
| Ricé | Jun 30, 2009 - 4:53 AM (HideShow) |
| AMZ helps a lot with R/M teams so if you're fighting a lot of those, it might be worth respeccing into. Meanwhile, you want to get hexes on the mage because the mage will decurse the rogue if you hex the rogue. Be careful though, since you have no pushback resistance on hex and it would be very easy for them to interrupt hex and lock your heals out. | |
| Velcetra | Jun 30, 2009 - 5:03 PM (HideShow) |
| its so lovely playing against rogue/mage , it takes you ~5 10 minuite games VS lame dk/druid druid/warr priest/rogue combos just to lose it in ~5 15 second matches | |
| Shamanizer | Jul 2, 2009 - 11:55 AM (HideShow) |
| Lately me and my partner has been doing really really bad in this setup. we did 1-6 and decided to stop. we didnt really meet any specefic counters. we faced rogue / mage: we lost because; dk wasnt able to kill any of them in heroism :/ priest / mage. Dk was constantly sheeped even tho i interrupted the mage every cd (yes every cd) he casted polymorph. and priest was just healing the little damage my dk could do. basicly we pretty much got outdamaged, outmanaed, or out-controlled. pretty lame. | |
| Jigorina | Jul 3, 2009 - 7:11 PM (HideShow) |
| Got a movie out on wcm now, got the tactics that we use agains't a couple of more usual setups. And some less usual setups. Anyway, this is early s6, think all are before water nerf. But our rating haven't changed since then anyway. But please, give comments about my playstyle, would be good to hear what you think and if you could try to help me out. Hope if can help some of you :D http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=116247 | |
| Sternn | Jul 6, 2009 - 1:23 AM (HideShow) |
| How much Spell Pen. is needed? It's really annoying when I spam Purge and my screen gets spammed with Resisted. I've just started arena (As you can tell by my rating) But I'm trying to see what stats I should invest in, with Gems, Chants, and of Course gear. | |
| Wonkers | Jul 6, 2009 - 5:57 AM (HideShow) |
| Jigorina, nice movie. A friendly tip, try to use Hex more. Against the Druid / Warrior team, use hex all the time on the warrior and let your DK know so he can swap over to the druid, putting more preasure on him, getting him to waste his mana faster. That was just an example :) | |
| Jigorina | Jul 7, 2009 - 10:01 AM (HideShow) |
| Ok I'm in need of help again... This week we had a 2-8 in games, facing the usual comps. I seem to get 2 or 3 shotted by anything that is moving and knows what it's doing. Totemstomping for some classes don't make it better since I have to use more gcds. This week we lost to DK/Priest, they just kept me in combat and I got oom when priest were at 70% shadowfiend not used. Then the usual such as Mage/Rogue, Priest/Rogue, Druid/Rogue and so on. Anything I can do to make my mana last more than 2 minutes without drinking... It's so annoying to know that I will lose no matter what I do vs any team who got the slightest clue of how to play. | |
| Wonkers | Jul 8, 2009 - 3:36 AM (HideShow) |
| Just wait for 3.2? :p I guess you dont need to hear that you need to keep totems up etc. Looking at your rating I mean (which is slightly higher than mine). But you might want to try to water shield tank the DK after he has unloaded his burst. But really it sounds like you need more assistance from your DK. He needs to be stunning (with pet), gripping and slowing the dps who is dealing damage to you. Try to coordinate a grip from your DK on another DK or Rogue (taking your setups in the post above) where you then avoid a DK grip with grounding or remove posions to get away and heal and drink. Your DK has the correct specc, so he should have no problems slowing people (except paladins I guess)... Line of Sight is extreemly important against mage / rogue teams and try to interrupt all the casts you can from the mage and spam grounding and cleansing totem. Your DK will be crowd controlled for the first minute or two of the fight, so prepare to be on your own. Also, 3.2. will help you alot when the buff to ghost wolf hits + more HP and whatnot. And you might want to consider the 0/20/51 specc. You loose out on 4% crit, but you gain like 2k + hp and 30% reduced time on all movement snare effects. | |
| Velcetra | Jul 8, 2009 - 5:59 PM (HideShow) |
| i know what it feels like jig , in the same BG as you with the french mid-season merge... its terrible now... we went down 100 rating as well in 2's... we however keep getting warr/druid and mage/rogues , no priest/rogue or rogue/druid teams at all :S just wait for 3.2 when 2v2 will be a waste of space bracket LOLOL :D or try "elemental/DK" for some really nice/fun fast paced games :P | |
| Ricé | Jul 9, 2009 - 6:07 AM (HideShow) |
| I'm most likely discontinuing the guide at this point, since 2v2 is pretty much a joke atm for shamans and will be essentially worthless next patch for serious arena. Wonkers, that sounds fine and dandy on paper but in reality mage/rogue will just flat out stomp you 90% of the time if they know what to do. I don't mean to diss your rating but you probably aren't fighting top-tier mage/rogues at that bracket. You can get lucky crits once a while and gib one of them fast but that's about the most "solid" way to win. The only thing you can do as a shaman is just spamheal yourself and shock/ground whenever you're not stunned until you or one of them dies. There's no magic to it. | |
| Velcetra | Jul 9, 2009 - 8:59 AM (HideShow) |
| agreed rice... | |
| Healedyou | Jul 10, 2009 - 2:01 AM (HideShow) |
| Rice, I cried when you went elemental. Then I remembered druids and followed suit. Looken forward to moar guides. | |
| Wonkers | Jul 10, 2009 - 7:58 AM (HideShow) |
| You are 100% correct Rice. But I wasnt trying to imply that dk/shammy will win against rogue / mage teams. :) That rarly happens, atleast it hasnt happened much to me. but there is the occationaly win. I try to fraps alot of my games, and its always fun to see what you did wrong, or what you did right in the different scenarios. And my "tips" just came from what actually managed to save me a few times in rogue/mage teams. But, I mean, I got what, 2.1k rating, not alot imo, so dont listen to me over what Rice says. ;) Just trying to contribute with what I've got. | |
| Bernia | Jul 10, 2009 - 3:08 PM (HideShow) |
| I and my resto shaman partner are fairly new, and are over 1500. I am sure mage/rogues are different in the 2000s, but I think its all about the DK getting in the mage's face with a strangulate before the rogue can sap. By the time the rogue saps the DK, the mage is at half health and off-balance. DG the rogue off shaman and CoI, and by that time have gargoyle on mage and keep him silenced/stunned wih ghoul. When mage comes out of iceblock, pop all cd's and he should be dead....shaman might be dead from rogue by that time, but DK > rogue in my experience... | |
| Ricé | Jul 10, 2009 - 10:16 PM (HideShow) |
| I've always "been" elemental. It's not hard to swap specs, you press a button on the talent panel. Just have been playing resto a lot less, that's all. I can say with confidence that elemental shamans, while miles away from being perfect, can definitely hold their own in 3v3 and 5v5 nowadays. Sorry to anyone that picked up all mp5 gear.. go grind! | |
| Deathconche | Jul 13, 2009 - 7:05 PM (HideShow) |
| Hi, i just got 2300 rating last night with this setup and we won all games against dk/druid and war/druid, and we actually did this by killing the druid.. not ooming it. How? well me as a dk start on the warrior triying to do hard dps on him, when i see the druid is in human form and i got runes up i death grip him and stun pet, and beat the hell out of him without using most important cds like, garg,strangulate, or emp runes.. I just go in and make him use barkskin.. if he does pop an early barkskin you should win. Just go on war again until barks is off, then pull druid back again and go for the kill with all ur cooldowns, ask for bloodlust and sumon gargoyle, ice bound fortitud to stop stuns from war, and once u see he is 11k hp strangulate, emp runes and kill him. the shaman should be purging all hots if he can.. becouse warrior most of the time is on the shaman. we won 7/8 of the games like this. Same thing with dks/druid. If he manage to scape for any reason just try and reset match chain ice spam on warrior until ur shaman gets the mana and go defensive switching between war and druid, but the usually dont scape, in the worst situation your shaman will die too, then u solo the war easy. | |
| Velcetra | Jul 14, 2009 - 1:02 PM (HideShow) |
| im not quite sure what BG you are in.. but what kind of HP pools do your warr/druid's have? becouse when i face them the warrior has at minimum 30k and the druid has 25k-27k ... we get stuck in a cyclone rotation 24/7 , the warr instantly disarms me if i death grip his druid and i get root/kited to smitherines , next to that im getting bashed by 244 t2 furious weapons... (played at 2250-2350 with shaman , 2v2 is low ATM becouse i boosted some people for their weapons :) ) | |
| Deathconche | Jul 14, 2009 - 3:03 PM (HideShow) |
| Yup the same hp pool u said, u said he disarms u when u deathgrip? thats ok becouse the first attack u do on the druid is to force them the defensive cds, barkskin, disarm etc.. after they use barkskin u have 1 min to deathgrip again and kill with all u got, u wont get cycloned or rooted at that moment.. u r doing so much damage that u outdamage the healings becouse ur shaman is purging and if u see he is gona cyclone, use ams, or mind freeze, the shaman should hex warrior too, becouse druid will try to dispell and thats more damage u will make to him. Sorry my bad english btw. | |
| Velcetra | Jul 14, 2009 - 5:48 PM (HideShow) |
| i agree its good on paper .. but still only versus bad druids :S becouse theirs no way in hell i can kill a druid pillarkiting with lag in his advantage... then getting natures grasp and being stuck once more. it usually comes to the quick kill you describe or OOMing , we win about 4/10 vs warr druid nevertheless | |
| Velivan | Jul 17, 2009 - 12:08 PM (HideShow) |
| So apparently I'm third top team? Neat :) | |
| Velcetra | Jul 17, 2009 - 4:08 PM (HideShow) |
| apperantly you are , congratulations :D | |
| Hagiophobia | Jul 26, 2009 - 1:57 PM (HideShow) |
| I would like to know the rotation of the DK with this talent spec. I am going to respec and re-gem my self. I know I have way to much resil and i gem my self wrong. Thank you for this site. So I know what to do know. | |
| Bobsauce | Jul 30, 2009 - 1:41 AM (HideShow) |
| Honestly does DK/rsham need a guide. I mean come on Rice, lol. | |
| Ricé | Aug 3, 2009 - 3:18 AM (HideShow) |
| I don't know what kind of comment that was, but I'll just say that there's probably more strategy involved in dk/sham than dk/other healer. | |
| Rahmak | Aug 4, 2009 - 9:21 AM (HideShow) |
| are you making any changes to your spec for 3.2? | |
| Moopsy | Aug 8, 2009 - 6:24 PM (HideShow) |
| dont u think about changing priority from crit to sp+haste? after redisign of reptide it seems to be worth doing... as for me there is no difference between 50% and 55% chance for LHW, althoug u ll still get crits wth ES and reptide itself... look forward for ur answer Rice | |
| Disrepute | Aug 16, 2009 - 10:02 PM (HideShow) |
| blah | |
| Mirrizal | Aug 19, 2009 - 9:44 AM (HideShow) |
| I personally believe gemming full spellpower after reaching 1k resilience and using 3 pieces elemental is still the best course. LHW speed may have been nerfed, but with the assistance of your DK and the new GW you should be able to get away faster, netting you more time to actually cast your heals. Also, +25% to LHW crit means you will be able to burst heal more, and maybe play the outlasting game better. It goes without saying that drinkhealing is still very essential. Against druids, look out for innvervate whenever the cd is ready and they start dipping below 30% mana. Keep them in LoS and start purging them beforehand to increase your chances to dispel innvervate on the first try. Prot paladins are still an issue until next season. But if you can pull it off, keep em moving by pulling their partner out of LoS as they can't heal on the run and keep Wind Shear on cd, time wind shear/petstun/strangulate/wind shear when aura mastery isn't ready. | |
| Flippers | Aug 22, 2009 - 4:52 PM (HideShow) |
| I was just wondering why use Stoneclaw totem because most of the time i never have it down because most teams i vs it is a MUST to have temor totem down. Atm i have the water maserly gyphs | |
| Wisdomcube | Aug 23, 2009 - 11:01 AM (HideShow) |
| Fun comp hit 2500 in 2 days with someone I've never played with. | |
| Лазурус | Aug 30, 2009 - 11:29 PM (HideShow) |
| probably one of the worst comp on my bg , very cool against prot pal + war wich are about 70% .. rice did u get glad ? | |
| Twifiter | Sep 2, 2009 - 7:14 PM (HideShow) |
| I actually have a few questions that I am unsure about with the spec. The main one is imp healing wave and then Healing Way, just not sure exactly why I should spec into this because I rarely have time to cast a big heal. And on the side of the Restorative totems down to Mana Tide totem I would assume that something along the lines of a druids innervate. Based off of my speculation I have come up with a spec and I would like to see what everyone thinks good and bad. Thanks again. http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#hZ0tThoZVcfuIxsxkbGRt | |
| Ricé | Sep 6, 2009 - 7:18 AM (HideShow) |
| I quit the game a few weeks before the season ended and I wasn't in range, so no, I didn't get gladiator for s6. Twifiter, it's because the cast time difference between LHW and HW is only .25 after a riptide (1.5 LHW vs. 1.75 HW). The speed of LHW was the primary reason why it was preferred in PvP. But now, healing wave is just much better for the majority of situations. Hope this helps. This is probably my last time posting here, since, well, 2v2 is dead and I'm done with the game. Good luck to everyone. | |
| Лазурус | Sep 13, 2009 - 12:47 PM (HideShow) |
| that sucks dude , almost same here feeling terible | |
| Frozenlord | Sep 24, 2009 - 5:45 PM (HideShow) |
| ok me and my buddy are having 2 major team probs the tipical resto druid/ UA lock..... and the hunter/pally or hunter/ healer plz help | |
| Лазурус | Sep 28, 2009 - 4:54 AM (HideShow) |
| lock/dru easy , shaman must drink alot shock grouding and los every cyclone spam tremor next to you , get ready to purge Innervate when dru is low on mana (ofcourse u and ur shaman cant let druid drink) hunter//healer mostly kill hunter's pet > so all totems remain standing = no control on shaman if u managed to kill the pet game should be easy to win hunter//prot pal - no comments | |
| Neltherion | Oct 5, 2009 - 10:37 PM (HideShow) |
| I have a seriouse problem that me and my DK ahve been running into. It seems that every time we run into a rogue/mage team, unless were really lucky and catch the rogue while hes stealhter (ghoul on aggressive, lucky totem drop/etc) we lose. If we dont catch the rogue out of stealth, 100% losses. If we do, 50% win. Can anyone give me some guidance on how to counter this team? It seems unbeatable (atleast with our comp). Me and my DK are RL friends, both communicate really well, and know our classes. Our comms are great, so we have great coordination too. If anyone can give me any strats/tactics against this team, please email me at dobbendb@cg63.navy.mil Oh, and it doesnt usually matter who they open on. If me, they burst too hard for me to healt through. If my DK, they CC too good for me to heal him, and they kill him. Thanks much, greatly appreciated | |
| Reinhold | Oct 7, 2009 - 1:20 PM (HideShow) |
| 1. Death Knight MUST be in frost presence the whole time, IMO. 2. He should have improved spell shield/possibly AMZ. 3. He needs to try to hit the mage fast enough to get into combat before being sapped. 4. You'll get either sapped or jumped while he is fighting the mage. 5. He deathgrips off you and then you should be able to start wearing them both down. | |
| Pankie | Oct 9, 2009 - 12:48 PM (HideShow) |
| This is below 1800(can't say for more skilled teams): I would only go frost if DK gets jumped or switched to. Two things are good for the DK to prevent sap: 1) Lichborne(but you lose the anti-poly it brings), 2) Hand-Rocket launcher (engineering tinker). As DK I usually tunnel the mage while preventing poly on myself and save DG to interrupt the mage when we already have some LOS. Once I pop Gargoyle it's usually GG bc the mage can't stay iceblocked while I damage/COI his rogue, and Gargoyle softens him up enough that when i come back to him(if I need to help with the rogue) he's near dead. One good trick is to keep your pet on stay away from you but in good LOS of the mage so when the frost nova comes you ca still get a Gnaw off. As shaman, pop Bloodlust ASAP, esp b4 gargoyle comes out. | |
| Polycarp | Oct 11, 2009 - 4:24 AM (HideShow) |
| shaman warrior? | |
| Poolm | Oct 26, 2009 - 3:26 AM (HideShow) |
| Hello Rice Poolm here, Ive been through your Guide and i find it very helpfull, I just started pvp i got 517 resi in 2 days. Atm i looooove being a resto shaman with a dk so fun :) got already 2k rating. Theres some things that i liked to ask though i help u can help me and that u will ofcourse.. I got some unsocket gear still i dident wanted to waste gold before im 100% sure what to spend them on. DO u think that i should buy as many 20resi gems as possible and stack em untill i get better gear? or do u recommend the 15 stam 10 resi gems?.. Also a question to the addon Kollektiv´s spellallerter, Could u like make a list of the spells like from every class? would be awesomely amasing :) Best Regards from me mate. | |
| Rephrase | Nov 6, 2009 - 1:17 PM (HideShow) |
| You might want to also state a ret paladin/rogue strat as well, since they are a huge problem for this team. Almost always will the team main target the shaman and kill him within a global, its pretty redic. | |
| Rephrase | Nov 6, 2009 - 1:23 PM (HideShow) |
| Mage/priest is also stunningly stupid against our team, one mistake you lose the game. | |
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