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Strategies
Frost Mage/Destruction Warlock
- Frost Mage/Destruction Warlock
- Matchups
- Death Knight/Mage
- Death Knight/Paladin
- Death Knight/Shaman
- Druid/Hunter
- Feral Druid/Mage
- Feral Druid/Paladin
- Feral Druid/Priest
- Druid/Warlock
- Druid/Warrior
- Hunter/Paladin
- Hunter/Priest
- Hunter/Shaman
- Mage/Retribution Paladin
- Mage/Rogue
- Mage/Warlock
- Paladin/Rogue
- Retribution Paladin/Shaman
- Paladin/Warlock
- Paladin/Warrior
- Priest/Rogue
- Suggest Strategies
Author
  | Torment The Underbog US-Retaliation |
 | Frost Mage/Destruction Warlock | VS. |   | Death Knight/Paladin |
This match-up is only particularly hard on Dalaran arena or if the Death Knight pulls out some extremely lucky damage in the short duration he inevitably spends on the Warlock while getting kited.
You will want to kill the Death Knight here while keeping the Paladin in an almost permanent state of crowd control (via instant Seduction/Polymorph) outside of bubble. One major thing that decides the match is where you engage them. You'll never want to rush in head first in areas such as behind a Nagrand pillar. Set up your Demonic Circle in an accessible location, and save it for when you're Death Gripped or really need to get away from the DK (near-death, sometimes during Anti-Magic Shell).
Keep your distance, dish out the damage, watch out for Hand of Sacrifice on the Death Knight before you drop your crowd control into the Paladin.
A useful thing to keep in mind is that Chaos Bolt pierces Anti-Magic Shell entirely, so if you feel like you can burst him down to near death without using Chaos Bolt, then saving it can often times win you the match if the Death Knight is consistently using it at low health. One way to force him to pop it at low health is to lock him out via stuns/horrifies at around 50-60% and getting him to sub 20% during the duration.
Mage PoV:
As the Mage, your main focus in this fight is to keep the Death Knight off of your Warlock as much as possible.
Most of the time the Death Knight's will Death Grip the Warlock right away so just get in there right after that, unless it's a bad posistion, in which case you will want to just hold back. Start Spellstealing the Death Knight right away so you are able to get Freedom or Sacrifice off as soon as they get it. It's crucial to get those two buffs off to keep the Death Knight slowed and to keep the CC up on the Paladin. At this point the Paladin should be Seduced, so you are free to DPS. Just remember to keep up on the novas to give your Warlock as much space as possible. Things can get a bit dicey when the Death Knight pops Anti-Magic Shell. The Paladin will most likely bubble about the same time. If he doesn't bubble to heal the Death Knight, you can then just drop a Counterspell into a heal.
During the bubble you will still want to be dishing out damage on the Death Knight. There are some rare times the Death Knight will turn on you during the bubble. If they do, you can then just sit in an Iceblock to prevent any damage and allow your Warlock to gain distance from the Death Knight and freely DPS. After the bubble is when you will want to go all out on the Death Knight. The Paladin should be fully CC'd with Seduces and Sheeps, allowing for a kill on the Death Knight.
You wont really need to sheep until after the bubble is over unless Seduce is on DR or the Succubus is OOM.
Download for a better quality version at FileFront
You will want to kill the Death Knight here while keeping the Paladin in an almost permanent state of crowd control (via instant Seduction/Polymorph) outside of bubble. One major thing that decides the match is where you engage them. You'll never want to rush in head first in areas such as behind a Nagrand pillar. Set up your Demonic Circle in an accessible location, and save it for when you're Death Gripped or really need to get away from the DK (near-death, sometimes during Anti-Magic Shell).
Keep your distance, dish out the damage, watch out for Hand of Sacrifice on the Death Knight before you drop your crowd control into the Paladin.
A useful thing to keep in mind is that Chaos Bolt pierces Anti-Magic Shell entirely, so if you feel like you can burst him down to near death without using Chaos Bolt, then saving it can often times win you the match if the Death Knight is consistently using it at low health. One way to force him to pop it at low health is to lock him out via stuns/horrifies at around 50-60% and getting him to sub 20% during the duration.
Mage PoV:
As the Mage, your main focus in this fight is to keep the Death Knight off of your Warlock as much as possible.
Most of the time the Death Knight's will Death Grip the Warlock right away so just get in there right after that, unless it's a bad posistion, in which case you will want to just hold back. Start Spellstealing the Death Knight right away so you are able to get Freedom or Sacrifice off as soon as they get it. It's crucial to get those two buffs off to keep the Death Knight slowed and to keep the CC up on the Paladin. At this point the Paladin should be Seduced, so you are free to DPS. Just remember to keep up on the novas to give your Warlock as much space as possible. Things can get a bit dicey when the Death Knight pops Anti-Magic Shell. The Paladin will most likely bubble about the same time. If he doesn't bubble to heal the Death Knight, you can then just drop a Counterspell into a heal.
During the bubble you will still want to be dishing out damage on the Death Knight. There are some rare times the Death Knight will turn on you during the bubble. If they do, you can then just sit in an Iceblock to prevent any damage and allow your Warlock to gain distance from the Death Knight and freely DPS. After the bubble is when you will want to go all out on the Death Knight. The Paladin should be fully CC'd with Seduces and Sheeps, allowing for a kill on the Death Knight.
You wont really need to sheep until after the bubble is over unless Seduce is on DR or the Succubus is OOM.
Download for a better quality version at FileFront
Comments: | |
|---|---|
| Torment | Mar 18, 2009 - 2:27 AM (HideShow) |
| Don't get too hung up on saving your Chaos Bolt for when hes low. It's helpful, but in many cases it is not game-breaking and you can continue to just use your Chaos Bolt as a nuke. | |
 Jasonlulz | Apr 2, 2009 - 12:08 AM (HideShow) |
| We find DK+Pally fairly beatable....however the only BIG problem arises when the DK decides to focus my mage instead of me. (Icy touches really tear mages a new asshole) Whereas netherprotection helps a ton against icy touch spam. | |
| Torment | Apr 2, 2009 - 1:03 AM (HideShow) |
| Yeah, in my next version (possibly 3.1) I'm going to add what to do if they focus the mage. I find it more manageable if they focus the Mage down, and rocket boots + evocate is an amazing reset for your side. Generally I'll fear spam the DK to peel him off the Mage as well as timing lock outs (death coil/shadowfury) when I need the Mage to sheep. When they focus the Mage the can really mess with your CC rotation, so you'll have to do your best to keep that going. I think a Warlock can put out more pressure than a Mage can while not being focused, so that's also an advantage there. | |
| Jasonlulz | Apr 2, 2009 - 1:15 PM (HideShow) |
| Worst yet we faced a DK pally who played UBER cheesy. Works only on some maps however. (Dalaran for one and nagrand) BOTH DK+Pally pillar hump. And the DK keeps you in combat via pet/dots. What he does it icy touch+pesitelence to dot you both, then pillar humps again (runs away) So you think fine we will drink reset. WRONG....he drops a Death and Decay from 30 yards away. Ok so you run outa death and decay to the next pillar (depending on map) u get maybe 1 drink tick off and he DnDs again or sends pet or pestilence to keep those dots up and going. It is absolutely retarded. We tried to rush them and they just pillar hump. (reminded me of playing lock+druid vs. good warrior+druids back in s3. They d up and pillar hump until full rage bar then intercept+rage dump on pet or druid. If nothing dies they D up and pillar hump again) If the DK+druid use this strat HOLY shit is it a long/boring/annoying game. And tends to lean in their favour. (as it is near impossible to rush them because your succy gets feared before it can seduce, (soulink dmg breaks the invis so the pally sees it coming) What we try to do to counter this is start with a poly on pally and fear DK. Then begin a seduce chain...it works sometimes sometimes it doesnt. Hard mathcup if they play gay like that. | |
| Torment | Apr 2, 2009 - 2:38 PM (HideShow) |
| Yeah we find a dk/pally do that here and there, where they will get an icy touch off if were trying to engage them, then hide back, pillar humping and dropping D&D to maintain their runic power. It's really difficult to manage when they can pop their garg instantly. Dalaran is the biggest pain for this, and on Nagrand we really have to wait it out. Where you engage is pretty crucial against pally/dk. | |
| Jasonlulz | Apr 5, 2009 - 8:18 PM (HideShow) |
| yah but so far we have found if they use this strat its very difficult for us to get a nice CC chain going and therefore hard to score a kill | |
| Torment | Apr 6, 2009 - 6:05 AM (HideShow) |
| Yeah now that you mention it, we just recently ran into a pally/dk that we've faced many times in the past using that strat on Nagrand. The DK hardcore LoS's with his pet damage/dots/icy touch. If you can force atleast the bubble and retreat out/eat up it's not too bad. If you successfully manage to reset the fight they are down a bubble and you can pretty much rush in once your full health/done waiting on a short cd. If they do try to chase you down after you've blown the pallies bubble you now have them in the open. Can be pretty hard to manage though. Good heads up for those new to the comp, thanks Jason. | |
 Amatox | Apr 7, 2009 - 4:37 AM (HideShow) |
| Just started playing this comp since my partner for rogue/mage decided to ragequit his class after a long string of failed vanishes and massive hits through cloak lol. Just wanted to say thanks for the guide, were already 1900+ and climbing and its day 3. This comp is HELLA FUN. <3 Torment. | |
| Jasonlulz | Apr 8, 2009 - 12:54 AM (HideShow) |
| yah Torment gg dk+pallies are really annoying. Nagrand is one of the FEW maps you can kinda survive on if they use that LoS strat keeping you in combat (maps big enough to escape and los and kill pet) Thing is on maps like Ruins/Dalaran it is nearly impossible to kill a DK+pally who play it like that. LoS forever and just spam icy touch/DND and then use pet/dnd to keep you in combat forever therefore unable to drink. | |
 Rippd | Apr 15, 2009 - 8:30 PM (HideShow) |
| whats the name of the mod that pulses whenever the mage's cooldowns are ready? | |
| Torment | Apr 16, 2009 - 3:44 AM (HideShow) |
| Jim's Cooldown Pulse Sounds like the one but I could be wrong. If that's not it you can google the mages addons listed on the front page. | |
| Torment | Apr 27, 2009 - 6:40 PM (HideShow) |
| To those watching this with the intent on facing it in 3.1 and beyond some things you'll have to be wary of is that DKs have way more reliable snares now. As you can see I'm not being slowed upon Frost Fever applications, and you'll probably be running into a lot more Frost DKs so you will probably be eating a lot more melee damage. | |
| Lordofmagic | Jul 28, 2009 - 12:46 AM (HideShow) |
| Me and my lock consider dk/pala a free win hehe | |
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