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Strategies
Frost Mage/Destruction Warlock
Author
  | Torment The Underbog US-Retaliation |
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General Information
Updated 5/25/2009: What to Expect: Warlock, Specs, Glyphs, Macros
Updated 4/1/2009: Added "Note" to What To Expect: Warlock, Matchup:Mage/Retribution Paladin, Matchup: Shaman/Retribution Paladin.
Updated: Matchup: Mage/Warlock, Matchup: Mage/Rogue, Matchup: Hunter/Paladin
Hey there, thanks for reading, I will try to keep this guide as up-to-date as possible and add more detail to match-ups if questions continue to arise. I've been getting a lot of whispers in-game and PM's asking for general strats, so I'd figure I would write a comprehensive guide for those interested. Everything listed is under my perspective, as the Warlock, while anything that discusses what the Mage should do, or what the Mage should expect is straight from my 2s partners mouth. Hope this helps.
Warlock/Mage is a great change of pace from your regular Healer/Warlock team compositions and has shown to be extremely viable if played right. This comp is centered around coordinating burst and CC while utilizing a Destruction spec for the Warlock with the use of a Succubus.
A Mage and Warlock have an amazing amount of synergy between the two that if played well will leave you on equal grounds to almost every existing (popular) comp. While rock/paper/scissors is still a factor, hopefully this guide will shed some light that will put your skill first, and comp advantage/disadvantage second.
What to Expect
Strengths: Tremendous synergy between the two classes including; CC on different DRs, both casters, each offers something the other class needs.
Weaknesses: In general, Rogue comps will give you some trouble and Dalaran arena is the map to fear. Apart from that everything is surprisingly manageable.
Also as you're reading the match-ups you will notice most of the strats involve killing the dps and not the healer, so in many cases the healer will be dealt with in the same way, +/- a few abilities their partners bring to the table. Most of the strats will revolve around countering the dps, not the healer.
Warlock:As the Warlock in this comp you will most likely be the kill target. You'll need to be able to survive/kite all while dealing your end of the damage and micro managing your pet to CC effectively.
You will want Curse of Elements on your kill target, as well as Corruption for on the run damage. After that you generally drop your Immolate then decide what you need from there. If you're new to Destruction you'll really just want to focus on getting Immolate up, Conflagrating it then proceeding to Chaos Bolt/Incinerate spam until your next Conflagrate cooldown.
Fearing your kill target is a pretty beneficial thing for you to do, especially to stop an opponent from popping a key defensive cooldown. You'll also have to be aware that when your Succubus is being interrupted and controlled by your opponents that you'll need switch to fearing your CC target. Finally, don't be afraid to Fel-Dom a Voidwalker for that bubble to survive, Fel-Dom'ing a Succubus to replenish her mana and more rarely, Fel-Dom'ing a Felhunter for a clutch silence.
Note: You'll want to use Fel Armour against any comp that does not include a Rogue. Toss on Demon Armour for those Rogue teams. Also use the Firestone over the Spellstone as Destruction. I'd recommened using the Spellstone if you're stacking haste already. If you're gearing towards spell power go with the Firestone.
Mage: As the Mage in this comp you will mostly have to keep targets off your Warlock. You will want to keep slowed/in a nova as much as possible while keeping sheeps up on the other target while seduce is on DR.
Updated 4/1/2009: Added "Note" to What To Expect: Warlock, Matchup:Mage/Retribution Paladin, Matchup: Shaman/Retribution Paladin.
Updated: Matchup: Mage/Warlock, Matchup: Mage/Rogue, Matchup: Hunter/Paladin
Hey there, thanks for reading, I will try to keep this guide as up-to-date as possible and add more detail to match-ups if questions continue to arise. I've been getting a lot of whispers in-game and PM's asking for general strats, so I'd figure I would write a comprehensive guide for those interested. Everything listed is under my perspective, as the Warlock, while anything that discusses what the Mage should do, or what the Mage should expect is straight from my 2s partners mouth. Hope this helps.
Warlock/Mage is a great change of pace from your regular Healer/Warlock team compositions and has shown to be extremely viable if played right. This comp is centered around coordinating burst and CC while utilizing a Destruction spec for the Warlock with the use of a Succubus.
A Mage and Warlock have an amazing amount of synergy between the two that if played well will leave you on equal grounds to almost every existing (popular) comp. While rock/paper/scissors is still a factor, hopefully this guide will shed some light that will put your skill first, and comp advantage/disadvantage second.
What to Expect
Strengths: Tremendous synergy between the two classes including; CC on different DRs, both casters, each offers something the other class needs.
Weaknesses: In general, Rogue comps will give you some trouble and Dalaran arena is the map to fear. Apart from that everything is surprisingly manageable.
Also as you're reading the match-ups you will notice most of the strats involve killing the dps and not the healer, so in many cases the healer will be dealt with in the same way, +/- a few abilities their partners bring to the table. Most of the strats will revolve around countering the dps, not the healer.
Warlock:As the Warlock in this comp you will most likely be the kill target. You'll need to be able to survive/kite all while dealing your end of the damage and micro managing your pet to CC effectively.
You will want Curse of Elements on your kill target, as well as Corruption for on the run damage. After that you generally drop your Immolate then decide what you need from there. If you're new to Destruction you'll really just want to focus on getting Immolate up, Conflagrating it then proceeding to Chaos Bolt/Incinerate spam until your next Conflagrate cooldown.
Fearing your kill target is a pretty beneficial thing for you to do, especially to stop an opponent from popping a key defensive cooldown. You'll also have to be aware that when your Succubus is being interrupted and controlled by your opponents that you'll need switch to fearing your CC target. Finally, don't be afraid to Fel-Dom a Voidwalker for that bubble to survive, Fel-Dom'ing a Succubus to replenish her mana and more rarely, Fel-Dom'ing a Felhunter for a clutch silence.
Note: You'll want to use Fel Armour against any comp that does not include a Rogue. Toss on Demon Armour for those Rogue teams. Also use the Firestone over the Spellstone as Destruction. I'd recommened using the Spellstone if you're stacking haste already. If you're gearing towards spell power go with the Firestone.
Mage: As the Mage in this comp you will mostly have to keep targets off your Warlock. You will want to keep slowed/in a nova as much as possible while keeping sheeps up on the other target while seduce is on DR.
Builds
Mage
Warlock
0/20/51
Note: Some may prefer to use the Immolate glyph over the Shadowflame or Soul Link glyph, but those 4 are the most common used among Destruction Warlocks.
Note: Some may prefer to use the Immolate glyph over the Shadowflame or Soul Link glyph, but those 4 are the most common used among Destruction Warlocks.
Gear
Warlock
I haven't played this comp undergeared, but I would imagine it would require above starter level pvp gear to be successful. As a general rule of thumb I would aim for 800 resilience/21k health as the Warlock before focusing on offensive stats.
Glyphs
Warlock:
Major: Soul Link/Conflagrate/Shadowflame
Minor: Curse of Exhaustion/Drain Soul/Kilrogg
Mage:
Major: Ice Barrier/Polymorph/Evocation
Minor: Frost Ward/Fire Ward/Slow Fall
AddOns
Personally I only use Gladius and Focus Frame, but my Mage partner uses in addition to those; Jim's Cooldown Pulse, Omni CC, power auras.
In general though, I would recommend Gladius and Afflicted2.
Macros
Some helpful macros for both classes include these. Most of these were taken straight off the macros section on AJ, so if you are looking for more helpful macros be sure to check it out.
Warlock
All in One pet ability macro (focus):
I use this to save myself keybinds and they all will use the pet ability (depening on your pet) on your focus target when you use this macro.
/cast [pet:succubus,target=focus,harm]Seduction;[pet:succubus]Seduction; [pet:voidwalker]Sacrifice;[pet:felhunter,modifier:alt]Spell Lock;[pet:felhunter,target=focus,harm]Spell Lock;[pet:Felguard]Intercept
All in One pet ability macro (regular target):
Same deal as last time, except this is specifically for my target, and not my focus.
/cast [pet:succubus]Seduction;[pet:felhunter]Spell Lock;
Totem Stomping macro for your pet:
This will cause your pet to run around destroying opposing shamans totems. Useful in a double dps situation, but not as spam and forget as playing warlock/healer. Often times you will need your pet seducing, so you are probably better off doing it manually. Still useful though, so here it is.
/petattack
/petattack [target=Healing Stream Totem]
/petattack [target=Cleansing Totem]
/petattack [target=Tremor Totem]
/petattack [target=Grounding Totem]
Mashable Fel Dom for a specific pet:
Replace the succubus with the desired pet for the other ones. Simple macro that saves you from hitting both manually and allows you to mash your Fel Dom without it interupting your summon constantly.
/cast Fel Domination
/cast !Summon Succubus(Summon)
Felhunter devour macro:
Replace the target with whatever desired target you wish when creating these macros. As you do not run with the felhunter often, this isn't the upmost priority macro to have, but at the very least I would run with a self-dispel ( [target=Torment]).
/cast [target=Zamboni] Devour Magic(Rank 7)
Mashable Reign of Fire::
/cast !Rain of Fire(Rank 7)
Mashable Shadowfury:
/cast !Shadowfury(Rank 5)
Mage:
Summon Water Elemental / Pet Nova:
Summon your Water Elemental if it is down. If you water elemental is up, it will use your pet's ranged nova
#showtooltip Summon Water Elemental
/cast [nopet] Summon Water Elemental
/click PetActionButton5
Ice Block Fast
Stop whatever you are casting and cast ice block. A second click will remove it.
#showtooltip Ice Block
/stopcasting
/cancelaura Ice Block
/cast Ice Block
Icy Veins and Hyperspeed Accelerators
Uses both at the same time.
#showtooltip
/cast Icy Veins
/use Deadly Gladiator's Silk Handguards
Spammable Arcane Missiles
Allows you to spam Arcane Missiles without resetting the cast time.
#showtooltip Arcane Missiles(Rank 13)
/cast [nochanneling:Arcane Missiles] Arcane Missiles
Decurse Mouseover/Self
Decurses the target your mouse is hovering over. If you are not hovering over a friendly target decurse yourself. (Replace my name with your name.)
#showtooltip Remove Curse
/cast [target=mouseover,exists] Remove Curse
/cast [target=Zamboni] Remove Curse
Focus Counterspell
Stops casting and casts counterspell on your focus target.
#showtooltip Counterspell
/stopcasting
/cast [target=focus] Counterspell
Focus Polymorph
Casts polymorph pig on your focus target. (Remove "(pig)" for normal Polymorph)
/cast [target=focus] Polymorph(Pig)
Focus Deep Freeze
Stops casting and casts Deep Freeze on your focus target.
#showtooltip Deep Freeze
/stopcasting
/cast [target=focus] Deep Freeze
Matchups
These are all written in my perspective with my Mage partners perspective at the end of each explanation. Most of these are pretty concrete, but we are always looking for strats that will guarantee us the win with as little difficulty as possible, so many are subject to change as we have limited experience fighting some.
There is also a couple clips for some of the match ups that you can view. Both Filefront and Youtube butchered the quality, but there is a stream available on both, with the high quality version on Youtube being the best if you do not want to download the small files.
Glyphs
Warlock:
Major: Soul Link/Conflagrate/Shadowflame
Minor: Curse of Exhaustion/Drain Soul/Kilrogg
Mage:
Major: Ice Barrier/Polymorph/Evocation
Minor: Frost Ward/Fire Ward/Slow Fall
AddOns
Personally I only use Gladius and Focus Frame, but my Mage partner uses in addition to those; Jim's Cooldown Pulse, Omni CC, power auras.
In general though, I would recommend Gladius and Afflicted2.
Macros
Some helpful macros for both classes include these. Most of these were taken straight off the macros section on AJ, so if you are looking for more helpful macros be sure to check it out.
Warlock
All in One pet ability macro (focus):
I use this to save myself keybinds and they all will use the pet ability (depening on your pet) on your focus target when you use this macro.
/cast [pet:succubus,target=focus,harm]Seduction;[pet:succubus]Seduction; [pet:voidwalker]Sacrifice;[pet:felhunter,modifier:alt]Spell Lock;[pet:felhunter,target=focus,harm]Spell Lock;[pet:Felguard]Intercept
All in One pet ability macro (regular target):
Same deal as last time, except this is specifically for my target, and not my focus.
/cast [pet:succubus]Seduction;[pet:felhunter]Spell Lock;
Totem Stomping macro for your pet:
This will cause your pet to run around destroying opposing shamans totems. Useful in a double dps situation, but not as spam and forget as playing warlock/healer. Often times you will need your pet seducing, so you are probably better off doing it manually. Still useful though, so here it is.
/petattack
/petattack [target=Healing Stream Totem]
/petattack [target=Cleansing Totem]
/petattack [target=Tremor Totem]
/petattack [target=Grounding Totem]
Mashable Fel Dom for a specific pet:
Replace the succubus with the desired pet for the other ones. Simple macro that saves you from hitting both manually and allows you to mash your Fel Dom without it interupting your summon constantly.
/cast Fel Domination
/cast !Summon Succubus(Summon)
Felhunter devour macro:
Replace the target with whatever desired target you wish when creating these macros. As you do not run with the felhunter often, this isn't the upmost priority macro to have, but at the very least I would run with a self-dispel ( [target=Torment]).
/cast [target=Zamboni] Devour Magic(Rank 7)
Mashable Reign of Fire::
/cast !Rain of Fire(Rank 7)
Mashable Shadowfury:
/cast !Shadowfury(Rank 5)
Mage:
Summon Water Elemental / Pet Nova:
Summon your Water Elemental if it is down. If you water elemental is up, it will use your pet's ranged nova
#showtooltip Summon Water Elemental
/cast [nopet] Summon Water Elemental
/click PetActionButton5
Ice Block Fast
Stop whatever you are casting and cast ice block. A second click will remove it.
#showtooltip Ice Block
/stopcasting
/cancelaura Ice Block
/cast Ice Block
Icy Veins and Hyperspeed Accelerators
Uses both at the same time.
#showtooltip
/cast Icy Veins
/use Deadly Gladiator's Silk Handguards
Spammable Arcane Missiles
Allows you to spam Arcane Missiles without resetting the cast time.
#showtooltip Arcane Missiles(Rank 13)
/cast [nochanneling:Arcane Missiles] Arcane Missiles
Decurse Mouseover/Self
Decurses the target your mouse is hovering over. If you are not hovering over a friendly target decurse yourself. (Replace my name with your name.)
#showtooltip Remove Curse
/cast [target=mouseover,exists] Remove Curse
/cast [target=Zamboni] Remove Curse
Focus Counterspell
Stops casting and casts counterspell on your focus target.
#showtooltip Counterspell
/stopcasting
/cast [target=focus] Counterspell
Focus Polymorph
Casts polymorph pig on your focus target. (Remove "(pig)" for normal Polymorph)
/cast [target=focus] Polymorph(Pig)
Focus Deep Freeze
Stops casting and casts Deep Freeze on your focus target.
#showtooltip Deep Freeze
/stopcasting
/cast [target=focus] Deep Freeze
Matchups
These are all written in my perspective with my Mage partners perspective at the end of each explanation. Most of these are pretty concrete, but we are always looking for strats that will guarantee us the win with as little difficulty as possible, so many are subject to change as we have limited experience fighting some.
There is also a couple clips for some of the match ups that you can view. Both Filefront and Youtube butchered the quality, but there is a stream available on both, with the high quality version on Youtube being the best if you do not want to download the small files.
Matchups
Comments: | |
|---|---|
  Тэрис | Mar 16, 2009 - 7:20 PM (HideShow) |
| what the :O | |
  Mooneternal | Mar 16, 2009 - 8:43 PM (HideShow) |
| OPd. <3 | |
 Blackrainbow | Mar 17, 2009 - 10:05 AM (HideShow) |
| very well done :) so with rogue rogue do you cut your losses and walk away? | |
| Torment | Mar 17, 2009 - 10:29 AM (HideShow) |
| Haha, I would rather not think about running into rogue/rogue where we are at. Sup here's some rating for you guys. | |
 Volcán | Mar 17, 2009 - 2:16 PM (HideShow) |
| What are the main Stats for the Warlock in this combo, as destruction you might want alot of Crit, or is it mainly SP you go for? | |
| Torment | Mar 17, 2009 - 2:28 PM (HideShow) |
| I really have never been one to theorycraft gemming when it comes to haste/crits value, but spell power has always a pretty solid choice for me. | |
  Fuuton | Mar 17, 2009 - 3:23 PM (HideShow) |
| This combo is really fucked up and makes me QQ | |
 Blowi | Mar 17, 2009 - 3:36 PM (HideShow) |
/petattack /petattack [target=Healing Stream Totem] /petattack [target=Mana] /petattack [target=Tremor Totem] /petattack [target=Grounding Totem] Fuck off :( But gg on guide! | |
| Tristrium | Mar 17, 2009 - 4:17 PM (HideShow) |
| Thank you so much Torment for posting this guide!!! :) Post more vids when they come in. And I wouldn't mind watching a full vid on WCM of you guys. ;) | |
 Pact | Mar 17, 2009 - 8:17 PM (HideShow) |
| now to find a mage.. | |
| Reziel | Mar 17, 2009 - 10:20 PM (HideShow) |
| Just curious what your primary keybindings are. I feel like my current setup is inefficient; I know keybindings are more of a "to each his own" sort of thing that you just get comfortable with, but I just can't seem to find a good setup. | |
| Torment | Mar 17, 2009 - 10:57 PM (HideShow) |
| Not really sure what you mean by primary keybinds, but everything I have bound I'm pretty comfortable with reaching quickly. I use the arrow keys so it may be kind of weird explaining it. | |
  Hkaz | Mar 18, 2009 - 1:23 AM (HideShow) |
| Gratz, thank you for the guide & make a video soon please. | |
| Garte | Mar 18, 2009 - 7:00 AM (HideShow) |
| Most awesome guide ever. | |
| Firemansam | Mar 18, 2009 - 3:45 PM (HideShow) |
| I would like to see a matchup guide for what you do VS Lock/rogue and Lock/feral | |
| Torment | Mar 18, 2009 - 3:53 PM (HideShow) |
| We'd have to switch battlegroups or theorycraft that Fireman. I suppose I could make one, but I prefer to only write match ups we've fought (sigh Retal). | |
| Torment | Mar 18, 2009 - 4:02 PM (HideShow) |
| Not going to add this until I fight it but I'd say do Rogue and just spam CC/cs's on the Lock. It would play out like Mage/Rogue but less burst + no Mage Armour (just devours at best). | |
| Firemansam | Mar 19, 2009 - 9:00 AM (HideShow) |
| Thanks, thats what we have been doing so far. Will rpobably go better once my lock partner gets som better gear, So far the burst hes taking is overall to high. | |
| Firemansam | Mar 19, 2009 - 2:52 PM (HideShow) |
| Thanks, thats what we have been doing so far. Will rpobably go better once my lock partner gets som better gear, So far the burst hes taking is overall to high. | |
| Firemansam | Mar 19, 2009 - 4:02 PM (HideShow) |
| Dobbel post ftl. | |
| Svetlanii | Mar 19, 2009 - 5:49 PM (HideShow) |
| What add-on is the mage using to track CC/DR's above his focus frame (the poly/fear icons that light up)? Is it just a carefully placed power aura? What does he use to track DRs? | |
| Shodar | Mar 19, 2009 - 7:20 PM (HideShow) |
| Good job on the strategy, this setup probably get a bit stronger in 3.1 because of the buff to conflagrate. | |
| Milo | Mar 20, 2009 - 1:15 PM (HideShow) |
| pretty cool guide. I need a destro WL as partner D: | |
 Pewpewlazer | Mar 21, 2009 - 4:22 PM (HideShow) |
| First off great job on this guide torment and props to you guys for the comp and how well you do with it:). 1 Question though what is a good amount of resilience for your warlock and if you could please post a ret pally rogue strat seems to cause some trouble for me and my partner: / | |
| Pewpewlazer | Mar 21, 2009 - 8:19 PM (HideShow) |
| Yeah i dumb disregard the question about gear lol | |
| Torment | Mar 21, 2009 - 9:37 PM (HideShow) |
| I would post a Strat but again, haven't really ran into that comp high up. I would imagine hardcore CC on the ret while killing the Rogue being the only way to go about it. | |
| Eresh | Mar 22, 2009 - 5:39 PM (HideShow) |
| good games there the other night. | |
| Pewpewlazer | Mar 22, 2009 - 8:22 PM (HideShow) |
| Is there a warlock macro that when you set ur succy you can seduce ur focus with one button? | |
| Bastax | Mar 23, 2009 - 10:15 AM (HideShow) |
| im playing same setup and we have problems against Lock/Paladin. We start by nuking the warlock and cc the paladin but it takes some time to kill affli lock as 2xCaster. And when we get him to 20%~ pala just bubble and heal him up. and by the time bubble is gone and we have a new chance to cc pala and kill lock one of us have low HP and is about to die. Help pls. | |
| Bastax | Mar 23, 2009 - 10:17 AM (HideShow) |
| oh, it would be rly nice if you would make some nice movie or atleast post a video for every matchup. | |
| Firemansam | Mar 23, 2009 - 2:32 PM (HideShow) |
| Well we managed 1700 with this comp today, Granted i would not say either of us are top skilled, and the lock is lacking some gear. But for most part the setups we are having trouble with are the "Random X factor teams" Like Enhancement shaman/Rogue teams and stuff. Basicly the more consistency you have in the teams you meet the better. | |
 Ampenite | Mar 23, 2009 - 4:01 PM (HideShow) |
| /cast [target=focus,exists,nodead, pet:succubus] Seduction; Seduction Heres your macro Pewpewlaz0rs | |
| Swigga | Mar 23, 2009 - 7:33 PM (HideShow) |
| <3 sup dude | |
| Torment | Mar 23, 2009 - 7:45 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey Bastax, Paladin/Warlock will cause some trouble if its dragged out, so you have to you'll have to come out strong off the bat. I would suggest shadowfury'ing the pet and warlock together (paladin too if they are all close would be better), banish the pet, start seduces on the Paladin and just dps the Warlock incredibly hard while maintaining CC on the Paladin. The Lock will have no soul link, no CS and no devours for his healers while the pet is in that full banish. The Paladin normally will bubble from this pressure, and you'll have to continue the CC, shadow ward every CD and attempt to do the same thing as before (don't spam banish, it's most effective when you get the full duration banish). Firemansam, there are some obscure double dps comps that may give you trouble like that, and rogue/anything is an uphill fight. Hey Swig. | |
| Allessia | Mar 24, 2009 - 12:54 AM (HideShow) |
| what do you guys recommend vs retpaladin/resto shaman and rogue/resto shaman? | |
| Torment | Mar 24, 2009 - 1:38 AM (HideShow) |
| Rogue/Resto Shaman plays the same as priest/rogue basically, but you have to be on your game with the tremor totems. Ret/Resto shaman is a pain in the ass, as it's one of the only situations where you have to kill the healer. If you get on the Ret you have to deal with bubble/tremors/spam cleanses on your CC. It should be near impossible to get a Ret kill against good players. Getting a kill on the Shaman can prove to be just as hard. LoS/spamming instants + a Ret to deal with can get annoying. Time your lockouts (deep freeze/coil/silence/shadowfury etc...) in the perfect order. If you can manage to destroy the tremor and shadow fury/howl of terror both of them, that's always helpful. | |
| Nigunit | Mar 24, 2009 - 5:58 AM (HideShow) |
| Grats on the rating with the setup :D I was wondering what's the hardest team for you guys. And what's the easiest one :P | |
| Torment | Mar 24, 2009 - 7:42 AM (HideShow) |
| Easiest is by far priest/non-rogue comps. The hardest (common) set-up would Paladin/Rogue by far. | |
 Darknova | Mar 24, 2009 - 12:09 PM (HideShow) |
| So you would readily use seduce in almost any situation over fear? | |
| Xdarise | Mar 24, 2009 - 4:13 PM (HideShow) |
| I think he uses fear on DPS target to get more time to cast stuff. (Since he can seduce & polymorph the healer) | |
| Firemansam | Mar 26, 2009 - 11:11 PM (HideShow) |
| We are still learning this combo, We are somewhat stuck on lower rating with non of us mind since we don't take arena to serious. But tonight we meet the combo that we so far have found by far the hardest. They just mass trained my lock and ra<ped us 4 games in a row, DK/Retradin. Seriously. No way for me to relive pressure on my lock. and they will just buble/antimagic shell and kill him before i can do anything at all. If he trinkets hammer, they still have gnaw and strangulate. And this team showed pretty much the most lack of coordination i have ever seen. They just trained him every time. Sometimes he would get gnaw, stragulate and hammer all at the same time. But even with trinket/summoning circle its just way to much incoming damage. Watch out for this comp. and Any this anyone might have would be nice. And as allways probably a comp we will stop seeing the day we hit higher ratings. | |
| Firemansam | Mar 26, 2009 - 11:12 PM (HideShow) |
| And any tips someone might have would be nice* | |
| Torment | Mar 27, 2009 - 2:10 AM (HideShow) |
| Hmm, doesn't seem too bad apart from that initial burst. CC the hell out of the Ret Paladin while dealing damage to the DK. You'll want to save trinket for the first HoJ, port to get some distance asap, engineering boots if you have them the next time they get close. Spell steal freedom/sac off the death knight and handle it like holy/dk. | |
| Torment | Mar 27, 2009 - 5:35 AM (HideShow) |
| On a side note, there is less pressure for us to obtain 1st in 2s now, so I'll get my partner to frap's some more matches so we can add it to the guide in the edited version. Also I'm not sure how much things will change with 3.1, but for sure I'll have the new specs/glyphs up with the next edit. I don't see the strats changing much, but I'll keep it up to date if they do. It was affecting his computers performance too much if you were curious. | |
| Nigunit | Mar 27, 2009 - 9:55 AM (HideShow) |
| Do you reckon the new succubus glyph change will help you alot with this combo? | |
| Torment | Mar 27, 2009 - 10:29 AM (HideShow) |
| Not so much, were pretty strapped with glyph choices and that's not a glaring issue with our spec. | |
| Sygor | Mar 27, 2009 - 11:46 AM (HideShow) |
| Firemansam, clearly u cant say that they have lack of coordination. You lost against DK/RET, not saying u are wrong. Just saying u got 2 of the best cc classes. Should be easy enough. Just remember that they pop all their cc and silence cds for first nuke. Then 30 sec after it is another nuke. Thats why u get blown away by cc. Its not lack of coordination ... | |
| Firemansam | Mar 27, 2009 - 12:15 PM (HideShow) |
| Well fight normally goes like this: They charge at my lock, Spamm spealsteal the dk to remove buffs so im sure to get freedom. and i get pop a sheep on the pala. Then starts the train. He goes antimagic shell, And the pala goes bubble. and they are both CC immune. And my lock get gibbed in a single gnaw/strangulate/hammer combo they normally pull. | |
 Andrewlol | Mar 27, 2009 - 3:01 PM (HideShow) |
| Torment, What glyphs do you use? | |
| Andrewlol | Mar 27, 2009 - 3:22 PM (HideShow) |
| never mind you stated what you use I was just dumb and didn't notice. Why corr? | |
| Bastax | Mar 27, 2009 - 5:30 PM (HideShow) |
| Anrewlol.. he uses corr glyph for instant shadowbolt porc, it helps rly much.. btw. Torment u and ur partner are welcome to come to Croatia and fraps the games on my pc ^^.. rly u should have a vid for every matchup. keep up the good work. | |
| Bastax | Mar 27, 2009 - 5:30 PM (HideShow) |
| andrewlol* | |
| Torment | Mar 27, 2009 - 7:40 PM (HideShow) |
| Haha, and yeah it's for the shadowbolt procs, it's sometimes the burst you need. In 3.1 the glyph choices will be changing though. | |
| Krokaine | Mar 28, 2009 - 5:50 PM (HideShow) |
| quick question on a strat Warlock(afflic) and DK VS dlock/mage i wanted to burn down the warlock but the DK had too much silences on us, he also turned out to be frost with that icecone of doom on top of us owned our CC combo what to do? or should we focus on the DK first instead of lock? please help! | |
| Torment | Mar 28, 2009 - 8:45 PM (HideShow) |
| You'd want to focus the DK there. Your comp is very reliant on being able to CC someone, and lichborne kind of screws that over. Yeah, the warlock can devour CC off himself, but only once every 8 seconds. Blow up the DK and try to CC/silence the warlock. Hope that helps, good luck. | |
| Zarno | Mar 28, 2009 - 10:13 PM (HideShow) |
| Tried this combo yesterday and it worked out pretty good. The only thing is that we are having huge problems against feral druids and rogues. The warlock dies too fast. Any basic strategies against feral druids and rogues for lower rated teams? | |
| Torment | Mar 28, 2009 - 10:55 PM (HideShow) |
| Against feral druids you'll want to just pressure them pretty hardcore. They don't have a cloak/vanish so I find they are much easier to keep distance from as the Warlock. As far as Rogues you'll have to tell me specific comps, because I went into a lot of detail with healer/rogue comps in the guide. | |
| Bastax | Mar 29, 2009 - 5:34 PM (HideShow) |
| 2674 rating, rly nice. Keep up the good work. | |
| Libido | Mar 29, 2009 - 9:01 PM (HideShow) |
| Spellstone or Firestone? | |
| Torment | Mar 29, 2009 - 9:14 PM (HideShow) |
| firestone | |
 Mídget | Mar 30, 2009 - 1:04 AM (HideShow) |
| Just wondering, what is the best strat v disc priest/ret pally | |
| Zebedee | Mar 30, 2009 - 7:05 AM (HideShow) |
| "Last minute gladiator" is a boosting team :) but Good work | |
| Colophoníus | Mar 30, 2009 - 1:41 PM (HideShow) |
| Awesome guide :-) It is possible to upload the highquality clips at other sites then filefront? Filefront won't exsist any longer :-( | |
| Looki | Mar 31, 2009 - 12:57 AM (HideShow) |
| What clips? They uploaded a video yet? Oo | |
| Bastax | Mar 31, 2009 - 11:26 AM (HideShow) |
| there are clips for Dk/HolyPala and Rogue/Priest setups.. But im hoping they will upload a clips for every matchup,, or make a bigger movie for warcraftmovies.com and show some nice fights (i hope lock PoV) | |
| Fieshy | Mar 31, 2009 - 12:37 PM (HideShow) |
| Recently started to play this comp, it works pretty fine, tho we relly have problems with Retpala/mage, we cant figure out how to beat them, bubble+IB and they restart the fight, you got any suggestions? Thanks! | |
| Torment | Mar 31, 2009 - 10:50 PM (HideShow) |
| Alright I sent some new updates including Shamam/Ret and Ret/Mage while updating the terrible Mage/Rogue we had up and others. Also added some more general information. Will continue to add more in the future, but if anyone thinks I should add some more specific things to the guide (not including more clips, I know we need more : \), let me know, thanks! | |
| Bastax | Apr 1, 2009 - 5:24 PM (HideShow) |
| im wondering what do u think about mage+AFFLI lock.. cuz in top 100 lock mage 42% of locks are affliction. im playing destro atm but we have some problems.. too much depends on LoS and if melee is on me and my teleport is on cd if mage miss deep freeze it just suxx.. so, what do u think about drostmage+affli lock? | |
| Jasonlulz | Apr 1, 2009 - 5:32 PM (HideShow) |
| Should add a strat for Lock Shaman. | |
| Дестран | Apr 1, 2009 - 10:34 PM (HideShow) |
| got 2403 last night destro\frostmage I love this combo :D but mage\rogue still is a counter for us :( | |
| Torment | Apr 1, 2009 - 11:11 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey Bastax, I believe the team "Kanika Goldwell" runs with the Warlock as affliction. I could see it being better vs. a few comps (Mage/Rogue comes to mind), but overall I feel that Destruction will outperform, especially in 3.1. Might as well get some learning experience with it now and benefit greatly when you get buffed in the future. | |
| Torment | Apr 1, 2009 - 11:17 PM (HideShow) |
| Also, if you guys have any helpful suggestions I may have missed/not known, be sure to toss them in the comments section for each strat, or alternatively if I have not listed the comp, put it here. Thanks! | |
| Bastax | Apr 2, 2009 - 7:34 AM (HideShow) |
| I talked to both lock and mage from team Nanjing Massarec. They are on Cyclone EU so I think they are better then Kanika Goldwell. Anyway they play affli / frost. Lock said that affli is good because he can hide after doting up and kite so he can do dmg and dont take any dmg from opponents. Also UA is awesome against palas and priests.. He said that he dont know how to play destro and he thinks affliction is better for high rating fights. They also find rogue/mage hardest enemies. | |
| Dothauntwin | Apr 2, 2009 - 12:45 PM (HideShow) |
| Jasonlulz and Powerpuffboy are a scary team :S You guys will probably get glad P.S. Fuck your mage's 600 haste | |
| Mitzi | Apr 3, 2009 - 6:44 AM (HideShow) |
| I wanted to know what you think about the impact of the recent nerf to Improved Succubus (66% instead of 100%) on this comp. Will this seriously impact this comp of will the seduce still be fast enough ? | |
| Torment | Apr 3, 2009 - 7:19 AM (HideShow) |
| It will be noticeable, and it leaves many options to counter Seduce. I think the Succubus will still be used and with the Destro buffs next patch we will probably be in a better state than we are on live now. I'll have to see how it plays out once 3.1 hits, but I'm not too worried. | |
| Prõphecy | Apr 3, 2009 - 10:24 AM (HideShow) |
| i'm not sure if someone has asked this yet but do you think that an arcane mage would be as viable as a frost mage? | |
| Torment | Apr 3, 2009 - 11:22 AM (HideShow) |
| The peels a Frost Mage can offer really compliments the Warlock too much to pass up. Also if they started focusing the Arcane Mage they could really drop him fast. | |
| Pewpewlazer | Apr 4, 2009 - 6:43 PM (HideShow) |
| Ok just got up over 1800 with this combo but ran into tons of mage rogues pally hunters and do you have any advice against resto drood DK so hard to CC druid | |
| Exileddead | Apr 4, 2009 - 8:56 PM (HideShow) |
| you guys need to make a movie seriously, people would love you for it including me...also some questions: me and my lock friend have been playing this comp for a couple days with no vent and lock is in blues and managed to hit 1850 and i think if we kept playing we could hit 2k pretty easy but mage rogue just seems to destroy us, nothing we can do, as pally hunter is rather homo.. any advice? | |
| Torment | Apr 4, 2009 - 11:08 PM (HideShow) |
| Pewpew, against DK/Druid the best thing you can do it Seduce the DK right off the bat and line up some huge nukes (Soulfire + Mage Shatter). As the Warlock you'll want to be spamming your target focus on Gladius and focus Seduce so you can Seduce the Druid instantly. If hes out in tree, have the same opener but move towards shadowfury/banish into banish/seduce chains. If he's in tree you can effectively CC him alone. If hes not in tree, after your Seduces have expired you have Deep Freeze to Imp CS to Shadowfury stun and Death Coil if you really need it. Exiled, as far as Mage/Rogue is concerned there's not much more I could give outside the strat for it and the comments in that strat section, sorry :\. As far as Paladin/Hunter is concerned, to mitigate damage you can Fear spam the Hunter while DPS'ing him and the Warlock should Portal out of LoS during the bubble. After the bubble is off start the CC and finish the Hunter off. Also be careful where you engage your opponents at, and when you engage send the Mage in first with the Lock quickly behind. | |
| Torment | Apr 5, 2009 - 2:24 AM (HideShow) |
| http://cryoz.mybrute.com support mage/lock by visiting this link, thanks. | |
| Torment | Apr 5, 2009 - 2:52 AM (HideShow) |
| lol ^ also not an invitation for everyone to link theirs, sorry - but gogo | |
| Minidnaiel | Apr 5, 2009 - 7:23 AM (HideShow) |
| I see a lot of affliction warlock + frost/arcane mage in 2v2. What would be better in your opinion? Affliction or destruction? | |
| Torment | Apr 5, 2009 - 8:06 AM (HideShow) |
| Destruction, especially in 3.1. | |
| Violetti | Apr 5, 2009 - 10:03 AM (HideShow) |
| what do u think guys could destro work with 0/21/50 DK? strangulate+mindfreeze+ghoulstun to compensate the sheep+cs etc, and well DK's are pretty handy keeping those dps's out of my back while doing heavy damage. do u think this setup has a chance at higher ratings? | |
| Torment | Apr 5, 2009 - 11:42 AM (HideShow) |
| Hmm, prior to 3.1 I really doubt it, and even in 3.1 I think it would just be feeding off Destro's ridiculous burst. I don't feel that it could perform at a top of the ladder level. | |
| Violetti | Apr 5, 2009 - 12:07 PM (HideShow) |
| thanks for the fast reply. we are gonna give it a try anyways, since we are friends and not too serious about arenas. we will let u know when we are on top of our bracket ;) | |
| Torment | Apr 5, 2009 - 12:38 PM (HideShow) |
| Good luck, and find ways to make it work. You never know how it will turn out, trust me ;). | |
| Violetti | Apr 5, 2009 - 12:44 PM (HideShow) |
| yeps ur the living proof of it. i wish u all the luck :) | |
| Tactical | Apr 5, 2009 - 3:22 PM (HideShow) |
| a ret and holy pally comp seems like itd counter this comp but i dont know if theres many of these comps high up in the rarting, can you tell me your strat fot it. | |
| Torment | Apr 6, 2009 - 6:01 AM (HideShow) |
| We had one up for ret/holy 2s, but it was based on almost nothing as we've faced the comp maybe twice in 1000 games. It seems pretty difficult as you have to deal with spam cleanse on the healer, who also has bubble. All I can think of is do your regular CC rotation on the Holy Paladin while locking the Ret out via fears/death coil/stuns so he cant just spam cleanse his healer. Maybe hide the CC with winters chill, but apart from that I think killing the Ret is your best bet. | |
| Bastax | Apr 6, 2009 - 11:54 AM (HideShow) |
| What do u think about seduce nerf?? Anything can happen in that 0.5sec (lichborne, anti magic shell, ns+heal...) and oh, i had to.. http://bastax.mybrute.com :P | |
| Torment | Apr 6, 2009 - 12:24 PM (HideShow) |
| I think it will still be a viable pet to use and will probably continue using it. It's just a matter of working around, but I think the overall destro buffs will be more than enough compensation. | |
| Bastax | Apr 6, 2009 - 6:55 PM (HideShow) |
| well, we will see :P btw. me and my mage have some problems against couple of setups. we lost 3 games in a row yesterday against full T7.5 rogue and holy pala.. Rogue does just too much dmg in rly short time. I can try to do as much dmg and die or just run away to keep myself alive. but then he just clos, vanish, sprint and get to me and own me. and we had rogue on rly low hp in one of the fights while keeping pala cc-ed.. but then pala just bubble and heal up rogue to full and by then im on rly low hp or dead. I talked to that rogue later (same server). He is full valoreus with 2 sinister revenge so... | |
 Amatox | Apr 7, 2009 - 4:39 AM (HideShow) |
| <3 Torment. My partner for rogue/mage decided he hates his class and wants to play his lock. Just wanted to thank you for the guide, if we get s6 glad with this I will have to come thank you on underbog lol. | |
| Torment | Apr 7, 2009 - 6:47 AM (HideShow) |
| Bastax, Rogue/Paladin is probably the hardest counter to Mage/Lock and will always be rough. A good opener + surviving/kiting through the bubble may be all you can do. Amatox, glad to hear - good luck with the comp! | |
| Mitear | Apr 7, 2009 - 4:53 PM (HideShow) |
| First of all. Crazy thorough guide! Well done :) We just decided to try this comp out and even tho, we didn't do too many games (tuesday night queues zzZZzz) the only thing we lost to was rogue teams. We felt the comp was strong and most importantly, extremely fun to play. The only thing I'm curious about is why your mage prefers Mana Gem glyph over Icy Veins glyph? When teams focused me, I found it extremely useful to get distance fast without wasting blink or if it's on cd. The games didn't last too long and I felt even in our longest game (RShaman / Ret) my mana was fine. But I guess it's personal preference :P Gonna try to keep this comp going in S6, it feels very viable. Thanks for a great guide and the vids was nice. You guys should put one up on WCM imo :) Happy easter all! | |
| Surrèal | Apr 8, 2009 - 8:24 AM (HideShow) |
| Hello Torment, I just came back to WOTLK and was pretty successful in Season 3 of arena with a Holy Priest. I have decided to come back and my friend ironically is a Mage, at first I thought "FFS, this isn't going to work". However, I stand corrected and I am glad. Congratulations on your rating. I have a few questions if you would care to answer them. 1. In patch 3.1.0 what will your glyph selection be? I like a few at the moment -> Conflagurate, Shadowflame, Soul Link, Succubus, Healthstone, Shadowburn. Can you give me any recommendations? To me, its seem Conflagurate and Succubus go hand in hand if you want to remove the Immolate since Conflagurate won't if glyphed. 2. Would this work just as well with an arcane mage? My friend is really interested in this spec and it seems to offer some good abilities like Slow. Whats your oppinion on this? 3. What two professions are best for a destro lock in PvP? I currently have 450 Engineering and 375 Tailoring but I'm contemplating a switch to Skinning for the extra crit rating to stack on top of Firestone, Focus Magic and such. 4. Have you found it difficult to adjust your spec for Patch 3.1.0? It seems Imp Succubus, Demonic Aegis and Suppression (moved to tier 1) are causing the main problems for me in where to put the points. 5. How much hit rating and spell penetration should I aim for? 6. Why the choice of Ascendancy in your gear? :) | |
| Torment | Apr 8, 2009 - 9:01 AM (HideShow) |
| Hey Surreal, glad to hear you're interested in the comp. 1. For glyphs in 3.1 I'm definitely going to use Conflag/Shadowflame with my third being either soul link or immolate. I've hear good things on the PTR about shadowflame, so it's been pretty tough trying to nail it down to 3. The reason I won't use the Succubus glyph is because if the target I want CC'd has dots on him there's always your mage partner who can sheep him (with glyph of sheep) or you can switch to fears. One of the reasons I'm debating between soul link and immolate instead of any other combination of the four is because the other two offer some sort of utility, which is always better to have. Soul link seems like a must if you play with a healer but for this comp specifically I'm not quite sure what 5% would amount to at the end of the fight. It seems you may need that extra damage added onto your conflag for burst so I'll have to gain some experience using them both. 2. I don't feel that Arcane would work that well with the comp because often times the Mage is the kill target and Arcane just does not offer the survivability needed. Another thing is the amount of peels a Frost Mage can offer for you over an Arcane Mage. Sure Arcane has nova/slow but overall the extra novas + frostbolt slow/deep freeze etc... just is way more valuable. While damage is important to the comp, I'd say CC and survival is the main focus. Also keep in mind the amount of slows Destruction is getting in 3.1, which further diminishes the value of slow. 3. If I had to recommend two professions I would say go Engineering/Jewelcrafting. The utility/escape ability that engineering offers makes it the most valuable pvp profession for you by far. Jewelcrafting is also just extremely convient as a stat buffer because while the 3 gems do offer bonus stats they also act as a prismatic gem. Being able to fill a blue socket with pure offensive stats (32 sp gem) is great to do. 4. My 3.1 spec is actually looking very nice with only a few minor adjustments. Once the fi | |
| Surrèal | Apr 8, 2009 - 9:25 AM (HideShow) |
| I dont know if the rest of your post cut off but, in response to what you have said: 1. What does the Immolate Glyph do? 2. What does peels mean? 3. Would it be possible to link me your provisional spec for destro 3.1.0 please? 4. Wouldn't JC be a very expensive profession? If I wasnt to take it, what would you recommend? The tailoring cloak enchant offers good stat value? Thank you for your quick response. | |
| Torment | Apr 8, 2009 - 9:59 AM (HideShow) |
| Ah, I answered 5/6 and it was showing when I originally posted, not sure why it cut off. 1. The immolate glyph will increase the damage that immolate does, which in turn increases the amount of damage conflagrate will do in 3.1 2. Peels is just a term used for when you prevent an opponent from attacking your partner. 3. This is the spec I'll be using; http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warlock=000000000000000000000000000020320033113020000000000000005230015220331351005031051&glyph=000000000000&version=9757 4. JC is pretty expensive to level but I was just giving you the optimal professions for pvp. I guess if you stick with tailoring you could use the chance on proc to do direct damage enchant. | |
| Torment | Apr 8, 2009 - 10:01 AM (HideShow) |
| This is for the cut off post- 5. You'll want 4% hit rating (from gear) and the spell pen that the cloak enchant (I guess you wont have this if you use the tailoring one) offhand and wand give. 6. I chose ascendancy because hit from gear benefits your pets while hit from talents does not. Removing the chance for your pet to miss is pretty big in arena, so I figured it would be the best choice. Another thing it offers is 3 saved talent points from your spec which is much needed. | |
| Surrèal | Apr 8, 2009 - 10:20 AM (HideShow) |
| I've been looking into professions and it seems that JC and tailoring will both be too expensive for me at the moment. So I'll probably take Skinning so I can get the extra 0.5% crit chance or whatever. Its the only option I really have at the moment. Couple of final questions: 1. What glyphs are you definately using with the spec you linked? Personally my spec was very similar. I was thinking that Shadowburn would be useful since your going all out on the Fire and Brimstone 5/5. I for one won't be using Soul Link, especially since my Succubus is weak enough without taking another 5% each time i'm hit. 2. Are there any new good minor glyphs? And also, what minors are you going to use? 3. Would you use the Hand Pyro Rockets on gloves over the +28 spell power enchant (or whatever it is) and are they usable in arena? 4. Are Nitro Boosts usable in arena? 5. Is there anywhere I can find information on how to gear my lock up to raid Naxx 25 since I would like to go there to get Life and Death? 6. What offhand and wand do I want before I can get PvP ones? Sorry for so many questions but this is a FANTASTIC help. Thanks for taking your time to reply with great material. | |
| Torment | Apr 8, 2009 - 10:37 AM (HideShow) |
| 1. I will be going Shadowflame/Conflagrate/Soul link(for 3s) and possibly for 2s. I may be going with immolate in 2s, not quite sure yet. Also your pet taking 5% from soul link damage isn't that much of a worry anymore because of fel synergy being moved to the first tier in the demo tree. Shadowburn right now is just alright. The healthstone glyph is an alternative in 3.0.9 but in 3.1 I'll be going with the setup just mentioned. 2. Nah, minor glyphs for warlocks are pretty terrible. The only useful one is curse of exhaustion if you're affliction. 3/4. The Hand Pyro Rockets, Hyperspeed Accelerators (use the accelerators on gloves) and Nitro Boosts (use as well) are all usable in arena. 5. As far as gearing up your lock, I suppose Elitist Jerks has info somewhere. http://elitistjerks.com/f80/ is a link to the warlock forums there. 6. Not too sure outside of the pvp ones. I suppose use whatever you get from pve until you replace them with the pvp ones. Hope this helps, good luck and feel free to ask more questions as they arise. | |
| Torment | Apr 8, 2009 - 10:39 AM (HideShow) |
| Mitear, I haven't really asked him that and I don't think he reads the comment section here. From what I've seen its pretty useful when paired with 2pt8, especially in 1v1s. Good luck with the comp! | |
| Surrèal | Apr 8, 2009 - 10:43 AM (HideShow) |
| While I have this on the brain too, I was just wondering a few more things too if you can reply to these as well as the others: 7. Do you use key bindings at all and how is your interface set up? (Do you use an AddOn?) A screenshot may be nice if its not too much trouble. Curious to see your setup. 8. What macros are you using for arena? Sorry to be a pain, i'm totally hooked up in this at the moment :). | |
| Torment | Apr 8, 2009 - 10:50 AM (HideShow) |
| Not a problem ;). 7. You'll definetly want to bind all your useful/very frequently used binds, and as you get more familiar/comfortable with binds you'll want pretty much everything bound that you use in pvp. The quicker you can access your abilities and not lose sight of whats going on in the screen by scrolling/aiming your cursor to your abilities the better off you'll be in pvp. As far as AddOns I just use Gladius and Focus Frame. As mentioned at the top of the guide Afflicted2 can also be of use, as well as many other mods. Gladius is pretty big though and I'd suggest using that at the very least. 8. There's a macro section in the guide! ;) | |
| Torment | Apr 8, 2009 - 10:54 AM (HideShow) |
| The script for the focus all in one macro could probably be shortened/cleaned up but it works for what its needed for. | |
| Kmage | Apr 8, 2009 - 12:19 PM (HideShow) |
| Wow, thanks for being so forthcoming and kind with your guide and tips Torment. I was hoping you could comment about the following: (1) Succubus control – how do you manage your succubus? My partner claims that it often times won’t seduce properly if (a) you are out of LOS of Succubus, (b) you are out of LOS of enemy, or (c) Succubus is out of LOS of enemy. Do you make the Succubus attack the seduce target to get him into LOS? (2) Totem stomp – you note that you and your partner destroy all the necessary totems, how does this work in practice? Do you find yourself using totem stomp with the Succubus before seducing? I find that we frequently run into Hunter/Shaman teams whose Hunter gets me down significantly while destroying grounding/tremor/grounding. (3) Frost vs. Arcane – I’ve gone to Arcane because it offers better flexibility when fighting casters; I’ve found that against Affliction Lock/Healer, we lose more than 50% of the time if they just keep LOS’ing us – esp on Dalaran Sewers. How do you deal with LOS fights like that? I assume the Lock never tries to mana drain? (4) Rogue/Anything – you have some well laid out strategies for Rogue/Anything, but my partner frequently dies just from the rogue – could you lay out step by step the few things you do for each of his cooldowns? (e.g., He opens with a cheapshot, lock seduces, he WOTFs, lock seduces, he trinkets, lock seduce (2 sec), he kidneys, lock trinket, he vanishes and reopens.. lock dies? Mean while I’ve poly’d the healer and slowed/nova’d the rogue, but it just seems impossible to keep him off the lock) – in your Priest/Rogue video, it looks like you get a seduce off through his cloak, which he blew early? | |
| Bastax | Apr 8, 2009 - 1:06 PM (HideShow) |
| Hmmm, why do u prefer shadowflame glyph. I know that slow sound awesome but, to slow the target you need to be in melee range, and if he slows u and u slow him whats the point? You can shadowflame and teleport/nitro boots but u can simply get away with teleport/boots without slowing the enemy. Thats mage's job. So I think its GC waste, glyph waste and mana waste. I would go with: -soul link glyph, -immolate glyph, -chaos bolt glyph. or maybe (this one is nice for 1v1): -confligrate glyph, -succubus glyph, -soul link glyph. | |
| Torment | Apr 8, 2009 - 1:13 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey Kmage, 1. The Succubus focus seduce macro causes it to bug if you're trying to seduce a target that is not in los of the Succubus. I don't believe it should bug out if its los of you or you're los of the target. I either get it to follow me because I'm generally attacking the person its seducing or will just get it to attack the kill target until they pop out to heal. If all that fails attacking the seduce target should work as well. 2. Ideally we start with sheeps on the Shaman and destroy the totems during that. Sometimes stomping the totem with the pet can be troublesome because the Shaman is often not in los of his totem, so he can just redrop it. To be honest our bg lacks Shaman/Hunters so I'm not sure how much pressure hes dishing out while you're trying to get your CC going. Just keep the pressure on him, get the Shaman out to heal and try to land your CC. 3. You'll probably find Frost a tad better for keeping the Lock in los. One major thing is to make sure you're not engaging them while they are near the boxes/pillars. The best thing we can do on Dalaran is just rush them before they reach either of the boxes and keep the initial part of the fight in the open. 4. The Rogue blew cloak when he trinketed a stun after the initial Seduce chain. You're always best off with your Seduce/Nuke->Seduce/Nuke until DR'd at which point you'll want to either shadowfury for a bit more damage or portal out because hes probably blown cloak or will blow cloak to get a vanish off. Save trinket/deep freeze/death coil for the reopener. Don't overlap the deep freeze/coil at that point it should also be the Warlocks job to CC the other partner. Against Mage/Rogue the Warlock will often find himself having to sac a voidwalker before he dies. Hopefully that helped, if not just let me know. | |
| Torment | Apr 8, 2009 - 1:21 PM (HideShow) |
| Bastax, that could be a possibility. I haven't actually tested the Shadowflame glyph but it still seems pretty damn useful to me. I heard its also a physical debuff so that may have some extra implications there. If it proves to be lackluster I'll go with Soul link/Immolate/Conflag. | |
| Kmage | Apr 8, 2009 - 2:21 PM (HideShow) |
| Thanks Torment, that's incredibly helpful. I will try out those tips this week. Hope you guys put out a movie at some point! =D | |
| Surrèal | Apr 8, 2009 - 11:03 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey Torment, me again! Was reading some of the latest replies. I know mage pretty well and for me, I think Arcane spec (51/21/0) is my personal favourite. What i'd like to know is: (1) Why you personally believe frost is better? I mean you talk about peels and how the mages job is to protect the warlock. However, "Slow" seems to be an excellent ability to do this with a great casting debuff on top of that. Can you give good reasoning to why frost should be chosen over arcane? Would be nice to hear some solid feedback on this one! :). Look forward to hearing your reply. Oh and one last thing, I am still having trouble deciding between the glyphs; Conflagurate, Succubus, Shadowflame, Soul Link, Shadowburn and Healthstone. I'm swinging towards the first three more though as they all offer great utility. | |
| Torment | Apr 9, 2009 - 6:51 AM (HideShow) |
| Hey again Surreal, Frost is better as I said for survivability(ice barrier, 2x iceblock etc...) and the ability to peel opponents off your partner far more efficiently/effectively than Arcane. Slow is alright but (especially in 3.1) your team has many ways to slow your opponent. The casting speed reduction isn't that big of a deal. That said, it may come down to what your Mage is comfortable with so don't let that deter you from Arcane. 2. I would be looking at Conflag/Soul link/Shadowflame for 3.1, but as mentioned before shadowflame could prove to be lackluster while playing with a Frost Mage so that may be replaceable by glyph of immolate. The reason you won't need glyph of succubus is mainly because you're not switching targets very often if at all. Even if you do switch targets you still have the ability to fear the dotted target or sheep (glyphed) them. | |
| Psychz | Apr 10, 2009 - 12:06 AM (HideShow) |
| Hey torment I gotta a question about your comp (well its more for zamboni but I think you can answer it) Whos the main nucker in this comp you or zamb? I watched that 50-sec DK/pally clip and what I watched that Zamb was focused a lot on Peeling and being ready to peel just in case while you dot / nuked.. Maybe its vs that specific team becuase you can get caught and raped in a couple of sec (as a lock).. -thx and gl on D-glad! | |
| Ptomely | Apr 10, 2009 - 1:57 AM (HideShow) |
| Hello, Torment! Well, I play a Warlock, my friend plays a mage, and my brother a Shaman. None of us have much PvP experience. *looks at our rating* *Shudders*. Anyways, although I mouseturn/keybind, my partner does not (I asked him if he keybinded, he replied yes, I use 1-9) XD. Anyways, what would be the best way to introduce him to the world of keybinds? We want to do good next season, and are saving up honor/WG marks to buy some hateful stuff right off the bat, so, as the unoffical team captain, I would likeus to "optimize". I showed him this page earlier, and he missed a WG to read it, he was so engrossed :D. So, what way should we optimize, apart from aformentioned keybinds? Also, we seem to be having a bit of trouble, in that my partners mirror images like to break cc. Any ideas? Great guide, this comp is really fun :D. | |
| Sacerdotal | Apr 10, 2009 - 1:49 PM (HideShow) |
| For some reason I think I know you from somewhere. ~Deities/Sacerdotal <3 | |
| Ptomely | Apr 12, 2009 - 1:17 AM (HideShow) |
| Oh, I've got another question: I see you won't be using Glyph of Corruption next season. Does that mean Corruption won't be worth placing on the target? | |
| Amatox | Apr 12, 2009 - 1:57 AM (HideShow) |
| BTW if you are thinking about playing this comp. I can guarantee with all the DK/paladin gongshows in 2's right now that you will have 100x more fun with this comp. | |
| Hinote | Apr 13, 2009 - 3:30 AM (HideShow) |
| Nice guide, Torment. Figured I'd say that first, since it's kind of inspired me to get back into arenas after a half-year or so hiatus from it that started during BC. Kudos, it's turned out to be a blast ever since my partner referred me to this. :P Anyway, I had a question that I can't really answer because...well, we're not terribly high in rating yet (1606 as of this post). We've fought some holy paladin/unholy death knight setups, which I've heard are really popular in 2s, and so far it hasn't been that hard. So I'm kinda wondering, is it just that this setup is really good at killing paladin/death knight teams, or is it just that we're going against really god-awful players that think pally/DK is easy rating, and the player quality improves (drastically) later on? Also, on the topic of glyphs, have you considered experimenting with the Chaos Bolt glyph come 3.1? With destruction still not having any real way to protect Immolate (and, by extension, Conflagrate), it seems like it might be a good choice since it allows for more frequent burst setups (as opposed to slightly bigger ones as offered by the Immolate glyph), but I'm not sure if the difference would be as good as I'm imagining. Thanks again for this guide, it's helped a ton for me and my partner. | |
| Sidewînder | Apr 13, 2009 - 9:15 AM (HideShow) |
| Hey guys, at first i'd really thank you for that guide. Very helpful even if you haven't played that comb before. But my m8 and i got one big problem: Feraldruid / Rogue comb. We have played against a team about 10 times and we lost 60%. They always open on my warlock and my m8 isn't really able to get the drood or the rogue off me without attacking the other one too (so he destroys my cc). I survived 4 times becouse of my Voidwalker, but if that team would play better than this (wer are currently at 1900, played 2 days together), which the sure will at rating 2100+ they would still nuke us. Any hints maybe? PS: sry for the bad english :s | |
| Torment | Apr 13, 2009 - 10:20 AM (HideShow) |
| Sorry for the delay on answers guys; Psychz, against most comps our damage is pretty even (except vs. Rogues) so I'd have to say were both nuking about the same. His job does involve peeling but that's pretty much part of their rotation anyways to do damage. Ptomely, I'm not quite sure how to help your partner our with keybind advice. Your best bet is to start off with a smaller number, preferably abilities used most and bind those in comfortable positions. Play some bgs to get the hang of it and just keeping adding more each time. As far as optimizing your gear I'm sure you'll want to be honor capped/full marks/enough wg marks for the trinkets. If you have the gold I'd also recommend picking up jewelcrafting + engineering. As far as the images are concerned we actually don't use them that often for that very reason. Your best bet may just be to leave them out! | |
| Torment | Apr 13, 2009 - 10:26 AM (HideShow) |
| Ptomely, even with the removal of molten core + swapping out the corruption glyph, I find that corruption is still very worth it to cast as its extra on the run damage. It builds up over time and only costs a GCD to cast it. Hinote, this setup does very well against DK/Paladin, but some exceptional ones would probably give your comp some trouble. Fortunately most don't know how to combat Mage/Warlock even after many series of games. The Chaos Bolt glyph is ofcourse a great glyph, but when it comes down to it I feel as if you just don't have room for it. You'll find your immolate as Mage/Warlock very safe and hardly ever gets dispelled as you have constant CC on the healer + many trash debuffs protecting it. Sidewinder, Feral/Rogue sounds pretty nasty and I can't say we have any experience vs. it. I'd recommend killing the Feral, CC'ing the Rogue. I'd probably trinket the initial stun, Shadowfury/HoT both of them, get ready to Seduce the Rogue if he trinkets/wotfs while waiting for the fear to break on the Druid to Death Coil. Try to gain some distance and port preferably if hes used feral charge. | |
| Ubrpwnge | Apr 13, 2009 - 2:25 PM (HideShow) |
| hey got 2 questions... What to do against Priest/Warrior and what to do against Feral Druid/Rogue.. thanks a ton you're great | |
| Torment | Apr 13, 2009 - 9:13 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey Ubr, For Priest/Warrior you'll want to just CC the priest and take out the warrior. Priests are the easiest for your team to CC and if you kite the Warrior well enough you shouldn't be at risk of dying. For Feral Druid/Rogue (copy and pasting); "I'd recommend killing the Feral, CC'ing the Rogue. I'd probably trinket the initial stun, Shadowfury/HoT both of them, get ready to Seduce the Rogue if he trinkets/wotfs while waiting for the fear to break on the Druid to Death Coil. Try to gain some distance and port preferably if hes used feral charge." I can see it being rough but that's kind of a cheese setup so I wouldn't worry about running into it quite often. Hope this helps, good luck! | |
| Ptomely | Apr 13, 2009 - 10:12 PM (HideShow) |
| Thanks Torment, my partner's getting more used to keybinds now, and all the key ones are in place. We've decided to only pop images when one of our opponents dies. Another quick question: 1. We seem to have trouble with pallys. We do fine until they bubble and heal. What do you do when they bubble? 2. I have JC, but not engineering. Will I be severely gimped in Arena? 3. As my mic is still broken, and he doesn't have one, we've binded a macro that posts a raid warning whenever one of our CCs is on DR. So far, it's worked great. But what should we be calling out once I fix my/he gets his mic? Thanks again, this comp is awesome :D | |
| Ptomely | Apr 13, 2009 - 10:18 PM (HideShow) |
| Oh, one more question! (sorry :P) 4. Do you, at any point, send your succubus in to attack? For example, when Seduce is on DR? Or is it not worth it? | |
| Torment | Apr 14, 2009 - 4:18 AM (HideShow) |
| Hey again Ptomely, 1. When they bubble I'll be in more of a survival mode. Against Hunters you'll want to port and los, DK's I often just dps through it so when the bubble is off the DK is slightly lower than 100%. 2. I'm a JC/enchanter, while it would be great to have engineering it shouldn't gimp you. 3. If you have Gladius you can see what CC hits each enemy player when it lands. It has a countdown timer showing how long it lasts and a visual of the graphic, I'd recommend downloading that to see when you need to swap CC. 4. I'll often have it attack when it's DR'd, yeah. That keeps it in los and adds some extra damage to your kill. | |
| Sevendance | Apr 14, 2009 - 10:15 AM (HideShow) |
| I've just barely started trying out this setup, under hopes that it'll work in 3.1. Reached 1,7k with no issues at all on our first day. And it's going better and better as we develop some teamplay together. Anyways I came across this Ret/resto druid team, and seemed kinda hard to us. We opened on the pally, with the intention of switching to druid anytime he was in a good position. It was going decently and we got him quite low a couple of times, but he kept getting himself up at low hp. In the end they ran us oom and out of cooldowns. Any idea for this encounter? | |
| Fleetwood | Apr 14, 2009 - 1:30 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey Torm, Just started running this on saturday to grab duelist as glad looked a bit out of reach as far as our timeline was concerned. One team we had some big issues with was mage/priest. Having run this myself I would consider destro/frost to be a pretty easy farm comp from that perspective but I was just wondering if you guys had any ideas for it. We generally tried to force both IB's before attempting a reset while having me save as many cd's as possible. I'm not sure if it was a lack of offensive pressure on our part or simply being overcome by double GLG bursts but we could not score a kill on them. Any ideas? Thanks, Fleet | |
| Torment | Apr 14, 2009 - 5:28 PM (HideShow) |
| Sevendance, can't say I've faced that comp yet but if I were to assume the Ret Paladin was competent enough to dispell CC from his druid it would seem all you can do is CC him while trying to kill the druid (as you were doing it seems). Save your lock out CDs until you get him in a good spot. Your best best may be landing a shadowfury->fear on him and hope it paths him to the open. From there you can work your fears/death coils/deep freeze/blanket CS's to kill him. Fleetwood, as far as mage/priest is concerned I think you'd be best off just controlling the priest and killing the mage (as you said). The priest should be CC'd for almost the duration of the fight so I'm not sure whats interrupting your chains. If they are cs'ing/freezing the pet you can swap to fears or if they're cs'ing the sheeps you can fear their mage right before yours begins casting. I haven't faced any decent mage/priests (recently at least) so I'm not sure if your warlock is getting sheeped/feared quite often. You may be better off with the felhunter, but I can't be certain until I have more experience facing it. | |
| Raziel | Apr 14, 2009 - 11:19 PM (HideShow) |
| hey, was jw if u were an engineer if u would use the 18spelldmg enchant to cloak or not; i dont know if i can make up the spell pen id lose and just recently lvld my lock trying to make up my mind | |
| Torment | Apr 15, 2009 - 8:20 AM (HideShow) |
| Hmm, some would argue that with CoE spell pen isn't worth much but I'd definitely stick to the s.pen to cloak enchant. | |
| Roanoker | Apr 15, 2009 - 12:42 PM (HideShow) |
| Hi torment, grats on the great guide I arena with a lock, ptomely, and we've been having quite a bit of trouble with some of the hunter comps, explosive shot has taken more than half my health with one shot before, should the hunter's kill target just run out of los? Or should we both try to dps him and hope he dies first? | |
| Ptomely | Apr 15, 2009 - 7:56 PM (HideShow) |
| ^^^Roanoker, you've posted here too? :D | |
 Boomkindruid | Apr 15, 2009 - 11:03 PM (HideShow) |
| Now that 3.1 is out, would you suggest maybe taking Glyph of Soul Link or Glyph of Shadowflame instead of one of the three current ones? Glyph of Shadowflame may be useless with a mage, but what do you think of Soul Link? | |
| Torment | Apr 15, 2009 - 11:45 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey Roanoker, if the Hunter is not LoS'ing you and just pumping damage into one of you you can spam fear him, death coil him/shadowfury/deep freeze to help stop incoming damage. If you're at risk of dying you can LoS as long as your CC is being landed on the healer. Boomkindruid, it's a possibility but I haven't got the chance to test Shadowflame in arena yet. | |
| Crackalacka | Apr 16, 2009 - 1:16 AM (HideShow) |
| Haha, im gonna rename my shaman tremor to fuck up all of ur pet targeting functions!!! eat that all u hunters and locks :) | |
| Lateralus | Apr 16, 2009 - 7:25 AM (HideShow) |
| Nice that you frequently update this guide, very nice reading. Keep up the good work mate | |
| Bodileto | Apr 16, 2009 - 1:02 PM (HideShow) |
| In 3.1 shouldnt the Lock be Destro/Succubus (isntant seduce and get the new glyph so u dont have to worry about dots) and hte mage be arcane. All you have to do is cycle seduce and sheep on one target then fear/freeze the other if its a melee. the burst dps will kill them very fast. with siliences and instant seduces healrs should go down so fast. against pallies all u need to do is CC the other target when the pally is bubbled if needed. | |
| Roanoker | Apr 16, 2009 - 9:49 PM (HideShow) |
| When the arena season starts up will you have video streams that we can watch? | |
| Entangled | Apr 17, 2009 - 5:50 AM (HideShow) |
| Can you please update this for 3.1 :) | |
| Sinisterr | Apr 17, 2009 - 6:23 AM (HideShow) |
| Awesome strat guide. Me and my brother are lvling mage/lock with recruit a friend so been reading up alot on this Just a request though, I noticed u play mage/lock/ele shaman in 3v3. thats awesome, and hopin maybe u would be interested in a making a strat guide for that as well? interested to try that in 3s too | |
| Sinisterr | Apr 17, 2009 - 6:24 AM (HideShow) |
| also more videos! helps to see the fights in action | |
| Torment | Apr 17, 2009 - 6:35 AM (HideShow) |
| Sinisterr, our 3s is actually a Resto Shaman and we're going to have to play a lot more matches before I'd be comfortable writing a guide for it. There's also a lot more "competitive" 2s teams on Retaliation than 3s teams here so I guess it would just be general information for your average team. Entangled, the best I can do is update glyphs/specs if I were to do it soon - which I suppose I should get on. I'm not sure how much the match ups will change but I'll keep it up-to-date as best I can. Roanoker, that may be a possibility (Mage PoV) but I can't say for certain. Bodileto, Arcane for the Mage may be a possibility (for 2s) for this comp, we haven't tested it that much. That said I'm sure in 3.0.9 affliction was working well (played a few matches as it) so it may come down to your playstyle. I'd recommend running Destruction for this comp in 3.1 however. | |
| Shinsui | Apr 18, 2009 - 6:01 AM (HideShow) |
| love your guide just have a few questions do you use firestone or spellstone? Do you stack any haste at all? | |
| Torment | Apr 18, 2009 - 10:21 AM (HideShow) |
| I use a firestone, but I think the difference is pretty negligible. I've opted to gem/gear spell power over haste, but haste is an acceptable option as well. | |
| Shiksta | Apr 19, 2009 - 7:32 AM (HideShow) |
| hey I'm going to run this comp on my lock. What glyphs should I use? I was leaning towards soul link, immolate and shadowburn. Thanks for your feedback. | |
| Torment | Apr 19, 2009 - 1:58 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey Shiksta, I can't give you a definite answer at this point but I can narrow your choices. Atm it's looking like conflagrate/immolate/shadowflame/soullink. | |
| Hinote | Apr 19, 2009 - 2:04 PM (HideShow) |
| Theoretical question here, Torment, since the season hasn't actually started yet. With arms warriors seemingly on the rise once again, do you think we'll start seeing more warrior/healer teams like Burning Crusade? If so, do you think they'll be much trouble for this team setup? I would imagine not, since mages and warlocks both have a pretty good method of escaping Bladestorm (easily their biggest kill move), not to mention all the snares/roots provided by the frost mage, but I was curious as to your thoughts on it. | |
| Pistolgrip | Apr 19, 2009 - 5:31 PM (HideShow) |
| <3 torment | |
| Torment | Apr 20, 2009 - 2:25 AM (HideShow) |
| Hey Hinote, I don't think Warrior teams will give this comp much problems for mainly the reasons you stated. The Frost Mage provides a lot of peels, you both have ways to put distance between the warrior, magic damage and constant healer control. | |
| Hinote | Apr 20, 2009 - 3:51 AM (HideShow) |
| Okay, another question, since I seem to be full of them. >.> With the patch came a few new trinkets available via Wintergrasp. I'm looking specifically at the Platinum Disks of Sorcery/Swiftness, which both provide a hefty 95 resilience in addition to a use effect. The former grants +440 spell power, while the latter grants 375 haste rating (which amounts to 11.44% haste), both for a good 20 seconds. So my question is thus: Which one would benefit more for this setup, and while I'm at it, which one should my partner pick up? The Sorcery disks allow for a much bigger individual spells, but the Swiftness ones allow for faster spell chains as well as quicker castings on utility stuff like Fear, which may give it the potential for more overall burst. Being a human, it's entirely possible I could pick up both (using a Flow of Knowledge in my other trinket slot) since I don't need to worry about keeping a slot for a PvP trinket. As usual, thanks for all your advice. :P | |
| Torment | Apr 20, 2009 - 12:14 PM (HideShow) |
| If I were a Human I'd probably use Battlemasters + a Scales of Fate esque trinket. I haven't had a chance to play around with them but I was leaning towards the on-use spell damage trinket. I think Mages would benefit more from the on-use haste trinket (for your partners question). I don't think either is the wrong choice in the end, but maybe just go with what you're gemming. | |
| Torment | Apr 20, 2009 - 5:50 PM (HideShow) |
| I may be jumping the gun here but if Rets rise a lot in representation this comp will run into some more difficulties. Rogues and Ret Paladins kind of counter it. | |
| Dudek | Apr 21, 2009 - 5:42 AM (HideShow) |
| Hello Torment, i have question.. whats is better from new trinkets from wg? 375 haste or 440 powa? thanks. But i mean 440 powa is 100% better..:-) | |
| Dudek | Apr 21, 2009 - 6:11 AM (HideShow) |
| and one more question brother, i havnt engineering, but my mage yes. Its urgently to have engi? I mean Nitroboots and gnomish electrical strike is big boost for destrolock, like 2nd port or something like that.. And dont look at my 2v2 please, it was played at last day before patch come, we had only hc, and much better rated comb..:-D(tbc-1800+destro/rogue) | |
| Ptomely | Apr 21, 2009 - 11:31 AM (HideShow) |
| Hey Torment, I've got another question: Why do you not us Soul Leech? Seems like the heal would be really nice to have. | |
| Dudek | Apr 21, 2009 - 12:01 PM (HideShow) |
| And i need help with gems, its better more hp/resi or power? Now i have 50%-50%. | |
| Dudek | Apr 21, 2009 - 12:02 PM (HideShow) |
| This Glyphs what you wrote (textup) its for 3.1.0? | |
| Zarkos | Apr 21, 2009 - 2:58 PM (HideShow) |
| I consider myself a true afflic lock but wanna dabble into the double dps 2's being a destro lock. Don't know how updated the info up top is with 3.1 just dropping but can you guys reccommend some rotations, destro glyphs (currenly using Soul Link, Terror & fear) to get me started, plz? | |
| Aquah | Apr 23, 2009 - 2:04 PM (HideShow) |
| is possible that mage go arcane since new pacth? | |
| Vaenth | Apr 23, 2009 - 6:40 PM (HideShow) |
| I had read this guide sth like month ago and I just must say this: You're my hero :D Very Inspiring, I am rolling mage, and my 2v2 partner is lvling his 70 warlock. 2v2 destro + mage is the only reason, and You're the person who forced us to do, it just looks so fun to play :D /lick ass PS. Will this comp be still viable in S6? And one more thing - is there any freaking chance to succesfully play this comp a bit undergeared (~500 resi for warlock)? | |
| Torment | Apr 24, 2009 - 10:21 AM (HideShow) |
| Dudek, personally I'd go with the spell power on use trinket, but maybe just go with what you're gemming (I'm not a huge theorycrafter when it comes to gearing). It's definitely helpful to roll engineering but not necessary. Gemming offensive stats (spell power or haste not crit) should be what you're looking for at about 800 resil/21k health. I use Shadowflame/Conflag/Soul link. Ptomely, I've opt'd not to pick it up because I'm focusing more on 3s, but I have thought about dropping 3 in F&B for it. Zarkos, as far as rotations are concerned all you really need to do is drop elements , immolate, corruption on the run then use as fillers conflag/chaos bolt/incinerate. Don't be afraid to Shadowburn for more on the run dps, as shard farming is pretty easy now. Aquah, we haven't committed to trying Arcane but I'm sure it would work. | |
| Torment | Apr 24, 2009 - 10:21 AM (HideShow) |
| Vaenth, I'm speculating that this comp will have more trouble than it did s5 if the rise of Rogues/Ret Paladins/Druids stays as the meta game. If their representation drops down it should be perfectly fine. As far as the Warlocks gear that may be a bit low but you could probably still work with it (just not at crazy high ratings). The main thing with this comp is surviving/CC, and a huge portion of surviving isn't simply tanking damage but kiting, so in that regard you could probably work with 500 resil (however its inevitable to not tank Rogue damage, which hurts... a lot). Sorry for the late responses, and I plan on playing 2s again shortly so I could possibly update the guide within the week. | |
| Piruz | Apr 24, 2009 - 2:05 PM (HideShow) |
| how to win warlock and disc priest? | |
| Futsukayoi | Apr 24, 2009 - 2:55 PM (HideShow) |
| you might wanna swap glyph of ice barrier with glyph of poly for the mage. that gllyph is just rediculous (just like my shitty spelling) | |
| Bodileto | Apr 25, 2009 - 2:09 AM (HideShow) |
| ight, torment according to the top rated team, Feelin Locky, mage/lock should have the basic resilience you get from gear, and gem the f*ck out of haste (be a jc and eng ftw i guess, /sigh) and have all possible haste gear even if its the crappy wg gear........ so just run out and burst? there team seems to counter most of the info in this strat that is on this page... | |
| Xintik | Apr 25, 2009 - 5:23 AM (HideShow) |
| Cool guide, thanks I appreciate it but never playing this comp again. Rogues literally rape my a$$hole. | |
| Torment | Apr 25, 2009 - 1:26 PM (HideShow) |
| Rogue/Priest is pretty manageable but in most cases that happens vs. Rogues. Season 5 there were really not that many Rogues in comparison to the comps you farm. Another thing to note is that DK's didn't have a ranged hamstring and retarded melee damage, so they are a bit harder to manage now. | |
| Ragnok | Apr 25, 2009 - 6:46 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey, wanted to say thanks for the guide. But I'm curious if you guys have come across any feral druid/arcane mage combos, and what you did against them. | |
| Mitzi | Apr 25, 2009 - 8:23 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey torment, hope you'll be able to give us some tips this new season. We're having a lot of problems against comps with druid healers now. If they poledance it's almost impossible to land a CC on them and to have a good opportunity to dps. We've considered changing to cc his partner and chase him, specially if it's a war or hunt because we can't prevent the druid from healing and the clock is ticking against us. Have you run into the same kind of problems ? | |
| Thyestean | Apr 26, 2009 - 7:19 PM (HideShow) |
| druids dont have a dispell, so just put pressure on the dps, force him out then suduce on druid, sheep dps, frostbolt pet freeze deep freeze etc. if you cant do that then you can always shadowfurry into a suduce. or if he is tree form, shadowfurry into a banish. if you get the initial cc off on him you can always chain fears on him into imp cs, and death coil. to finish his partner. | |
| Liox | Apr 27, 2009 - 9:36 AM (HideShow) |
| Hi Torment, I've got a Question about a Setup which isn't mentioned at your guide. Setup: Retripaladin/Discpriest My Setup: Frostmage/Hauntlock (54/17/0) We generally CC as much as possibly and nuke the enemy in a well timed chain down. But playing versus Retri/Disc we've got big problems 'cause both can dispell our CCs. I use UA after Fear on my target for stopping his partner to dispell, but mostly 1,5 sek is too long for doing so. And obviously UA shortens the Feartime, but my opinion is that better a shorter Fear, than a wasted Fear which is dispelled in 1 sek. For stopping the Fokus to dispell the CCs, we started to think about using one CC at the Fokustarget (my Fear's obviously better for that) + both CS while his partner is sheeped/feared. Not sure, if it's possible to do so at higher ratings. Do you have any kind of advice how to handle this? | |
| Torment | Apr 27, 2009 - 1:15 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey Liox, I haven't run into ret/disc in previous seasons nor have been running mage/lock myself this season but I can maybe give you a bit of theory crafting advice. I think any competent Ret/healer should give you trouble, probably more so than Rogue/Healer if the Ret knows how to dispel. I'd suggest landing fears on the Paladin while simultaneously landing Sheeps on the Priest. Once it comes down to fearing the Priest your best bet is to definitely hide it with a full rank UA. I haven't tested hiding fears with low rank UA's but if the ondispel damage is the same, and only the dot portion is lower I'd consider that. Try to lock out the Ret as best you can with fears/coils/stuns to stop his dispelling. | |
| Torment | Apr 27, 2009 - 1:17 PM (HideShow) |
| Ragnok, in the guide we have a feral/mage strat, and there's not much more to be written for an Arcane Mage than a Frost Mage. You'll still want to kill the Feral while kiting/CC'ing the Mage as best as possible. Mitzi, if the Druid is playing with any partner other than a Ret Paladin you'll want to just Seduce/Banish/Deep Freeze/Death Coil/Blanket silence rotate on him while killing his partner. If hes with a Ret Paladin I could only see CC'ing the Ret while trying to chase the Druid down all match being viable. | |
| Howlmoth | Apr 27, 2009 - 4:47 PM (HideShow) |
| Having trouble with Rogue/Resto Druid comps. Mage is CC'd through sap, blind, and cyclone pretty regularly. Can't enter combat before the sap because we can't see them. By the time the mage is out of CC and participating, the warlock is very low in health while the rogue and druid are doing fine. At the first sign of trouble, the rogue disappears and the druid goes into pillar hugging mode. It seems like its almost over before it starts. Suggestions, if any? | |
| Torment | Apr 27, 2009 - 6:34 PM (HideShow) |
| Sounds pretty much impossible to get a Rogue kill in that situation. It would probably be extremely difficult this way to, simply because of los but I'd suggest CC'ing the Rogue and chasing down the Druid. Time your lockouts on him if you get him in a good spot, maybe shadowfury-> fear pathing into the open and rip into him. Aside from that you might be able to find an opportunity while doing the above where the Rogue has blown cloak is sitting in a CC and the Druid is not DR'd on fear/seduce. You're going to have to capitalize on them not having a defensive dispel, so maybe get some soft resets in while the Rogue is CC'd. | |
| Torment | Apr 27, 2009 - 6:35 PM (HideShow) |
| In regards to above, it sounds impossible to get a Rogue kill early doing your normal healer/dps strat of CC'ing the healer off the bat and blowing up the dps.* Cloak and limited CC prevent on the Druid together prevent that. | |
| Assiro | Apr 28, 2009 - 8:24 AM (HideShow) |
| Yesterday my mage partner and I faced this comp. (Hi torment! You watched us yesterday :D) My mage's polymorph on the other mage tanked. I seduced the rogue - but that was reisted too. I ended up trinketing + demonic portaling, and doing as much damage to the rogue as I could. I died quickly, my mage finished off the rogue. At that point it was mage/mage... for about 30 mins =\. Both had glyph of evocate, so... yeah. It ended up being my mage outlasting his cooldowns and then bursting him down to 0 with all his cooldowns and a couple lucky freezes. | |
| Ragnok | Apr 29, 2009 - 8:30 PM (HideShow) |
| I was just wondering for any bracket, what are doing for gems atm, I'm thinking of going high sta/resil because of all the rogues and other melee. Any input when you get to it would be great :) | |
| Vðna | Apr 30, 2009 - 7:15 AM (HideShow) |
| Me and my Mage require around a 90% winrate vs. anything that doesn't contain a Rogue in order to keep our Win/Lose ratio 50:50. 300+ games so far this season and just approaching 1500 rating :/ It's going to be a long season... I've played Destruction in every season from season2 excluding season5 as I was away from the game then, this is by far the hardest season I can remember due to Rogue/Priest or Rogue/Mage. | |
| Sottomis | Apr 30, 2009 - 12:14 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey torment great guide, me and my warlock just started this yesterday and did fairly well against most normal teams. One team what absolutely stomped us was ret/ret. They repent me, bubble and rape my warlock, nothing either of us can do to them. If he somehow survives that, i have two freedoms to try to spellsteal, which takes forever. They basically beat us without losing any health last time and i really need some help with what to do here. even if i iceblock/trinket the repent, theyre both in bubbles and my warlock cant survive 10 seconds of two ret pallys on him. We also had tons of trouble with priest rogue. | |
| Torment | Apr 30, 2009 - 1:01 PM (HideShow) |
| Vona/Sottomis, Rogues and Rets are generally a counter to this setup and last season they were really scarce as far as representation is concerned in the higher brackets. This made it pretty easy to advance in rating so I could definitely see why its causing you problems. Sottomis, as far as double Ret is concerned well I can't really give you much advice there other than have the Warlock pre-emptively summoning a Succubus as the gates are about to open with a void out, sac it get a portal up asap and get as much distance from that portal as possible before they open on him. Portal the bubbles and just run away, once theyre down Seduce/Sheep/Fear spam them while having a clear kill target. If they're really blowing bubbles for a reason other than to avoid death then it should be pretty easy. Ragnok, I'm currently gemming spell power for all brackets. I've never tried high stamina gemming but honestly with all the Rogues in 2s that probably would work out for you. However any team that you're on with a healer it would be help you more to gem offensive stats. For Mage/Lock, sure try it out and tell me how it works. | |
| Ragnok | Apr 30, 2009 - 8:32 PM (HideShow) |
| I appreciate it and will let you know what worked best. | |
| Hinote | Apr 30, 2009 - 9:55 PM (HideShow) |
| So patch 3.1.2 is on the way, and among other things there's a change to the Conflagrate glyph in the works. The new version gives you +10% damage to your next three spells post-Conflagrate if you cast it with >5 seconds left on Immolate. The optimist in me wants to say that this is still worth taking as a PvP glyph, but the realist in me says that without dispel protection, Immolate's never gonna last long enough to get to the 5-second mark. It synergizes well with Backdraft and Fire and Brimstone, I'll grant that, but unless Immolate can stay on the target (which isn't entirely impossible with a frost mage partner stacking up Winter's Chill), it just falls apart. Anyway, I was wondering what your thoughts are, Torment. It seems like kind of a toss-up, since on the one hand your partner can provide decent dispel protection, and usually you'll be CCing the person who can dispel anyway (if anyone even can), but at the same time it seems like betting a lot on one thing. Then again, I guess that doesn't really change much, since Conflagrate has kind of been at the center of destruction PvP since Wrath, arguably even before. | |
| Torment | May 1, 2009 - 1:17 AM (HideShow) |
| It wont be worth taking as you will rarely want to wait to Conflag. Kind of disappointed with this change. | |
| Coldbear | May 1, 2009 - 2:44 AM (HideShow) |
| What I found useful for ret teams (2k first-second day while learning this comp) is to seduce and sheep healer and icy veins spell steal as many buffs as open. | |
| Coldbear | May 1, 2009 - 2:46 AM (HideShow) |
| err spell steal as many buffs as possible then open and re-seduce and open again. Though generally have a positive ratio against ret teams we split against decent ones. We do however get destroyed by rogue teams. | |
| Paleaile | May 1, 2009 - 3:10 PM (HideShow) |
| any chance you have any strat on lock/mage/shaman 3s? | |
| Jush | May 2, 2009 - 7:55 PM (HideShow) |
| Torment how much damage do you generally take when a rogue opens on you? My warlock partner seems to never be able to survive the first jump without taking at least 12,000 damage or so. Barring the obvious pries/rogue dispelling seduction, my train of thought is a rogue shouldnt be able to do much damage at all as he eats a seduce as soon as he pops. Im spamming sheep so if he trinkets he gets caught, and if he cloaks the warlock should be able to instantly teleport and avoid all damage. Am I asking too much of my warlock? Or is it just impossible not to take the 12k before the rogue cloaks. | |
| Roanoker | May 2, 2009 - 8:23 PM (HideShow) |
| hey, i noticed your now doing 2's with a shaman, is the lock/mage not working out well this season or are you just trying new stuff out? | |
| Ptomely | May 3, 2009 - 1:54 AM (HideShow) |
| "Fire and Brimstone -- After a lot of feedback and testing, we think we are going to change this again. Now increases the damage done by your Incinerate and Chaos Bolt by 15% on targets afflicted by Immolate, and increases the critical strike chance of your Conflagrate by 25%. The first portion of the talent is now a pure percent boost instead of modifying the “bonus” that Incinerate gets. It was too confusing to players and had some weird side-effects, such as Chaos Bolt not scaling well with Incinerate if Incinerate did more damage. Incinerate and Immolate -- There does seem to be a bug where spellpower is not getting applied correctly. We don't know at this point if this is an old or new bug. Certainly there used to be a lot of spells that didn't scale with spellpower, though we now make an attempt to make sure almost all of them do. It may matter less with the F&B change, but we'll still get it resolved. Conflagrate -- We still intend to leave this as it currently works on live (not consuming the Immolate). We understand sometimes players can get whiplash from our rapid iteration. That's just the way we designed, though we perhaps have not always communicated the design churn as openly as we do today. --Ghostcrawler" :D Crisis averted! So, Fire and Brimstone will mandatory maxed now, correct? Which talents should we drop for it? I was to keep Soul Leech (I dropped 3 from Fire and Brimstone for it), but don't see any talents that I can drop elsewhere. | |
| Hinote | May 3, 2009 - 4:35 AM (HideShow) |
| I can't speak for others, but I'll probably be dropping Soul Leech + Improved Soul Leech for it. Looking at your build, Ptomely, I'd say doing exactly what you suggested and just shifting the 3/3 Soul Leech to max out F&B. It's finally looking like a decent talent, at any rate. | |
| Ptomely | May 4, 2009 - 1:11 AM (HideShow) |
| Yeah, Hinote, I don't really see a choice anywhere else. Although I'll miss the nice heal Soul Leech gave, the extra dmg is going to be VERY nice, and a great buff. The nerf to Nether Prot is going to hurt though, but IMO it will still be mandatory and a great talent. | |
| Hinote | May 4, 2009 - 1:12 PM (HideShow) |
| The nerf to Nether Protection is already live, minus the tooltip update (which can't be hotfixed), so if you've been managing just fine in the past week or so, the patch won't change that. :P | |
| Torment | May 4, 2009 - 1:56 PM (HideShow) |
| Paleaile, I probably won't be writing a guide for my 3s. It basically feeds off the Mage/Lock synergy from 2s but instead of locking down 1 target with CC you'll be managing 2. Jush, I can't say for certain as its been awhile but pre 3.1 nothing too extreme. You'll probably eat a Mutilate and Evis. | |
| Híde | May 5, 2009 - 5:25 AM (HideShow) |
| My only problem with all of your strats is my warlock dies too effing fast. I sit on him, deep freeze, pet freeze, nova, CoC, EVERYTHING on any melee that are on him. he still drops. We have to be very fast with our damage if we want to get a kill off. The biggest thing is - spellstealing freedoms. It usually takes me 4-5 spellsteals to finally actually get to the freedom because of all that other pally crap that procs. By that time, its almost expired anyway, and/or my warlock is dead. is it even worth trying? | |
| Torment | May 5, 2009 - 2:26 PM (HideShow) |
| I assume you're talking about Ret Pallies there and I'd say no, just kite during Freedom (portal/shadowfury). If its a Holy Paladins freedom then yes, spell steal it. | |
| Warzo | May 5, 2009 - 4:36 PM (HideShow) |
| ok i have a couple questions. which spec is better 3/17/51 or 0/20/51 for destro locks? im trying to get a legit frost mage/lock combo going but does it matter if i go with a healer or another dps, or is it all preference? | |
| Torment | May 5, 2009 - 5:27 PM (HideShow) |
| 0/20/51 is my preferred spec in any comp. The 20 points in demonology pretty much means you're rolling with a Succubus out the majority of the time however. 3/17/51 is an alternative spec that frees up some gearing issues around hit rating and allows you to gear haste. I would say that spec is better suited for 3s comps that include a Rogue/Lock and it's also a preference of those that prefer to use the Felhunter. | |
| Warzo | May 5, 2009 - 6:44 PM (HideShow) |
| Sounds good thanks for the info man. yah i think i wall go 0/20/51 for sure now, why put points in a talent when you can get the stats through gear and those 3 points would be better spent on a shorter casting time of seduction and greater duration, for those certain situations where u need cc in a pinch in case fear, or poly breaks. =) | |
| Kmage | May 6, 2009 - 1:26 PM (HideShow) |
| Torment, is this strategy guide and comp pretty much dead since you are no longer running it? =( | |
| Shinsui | May 6, 2009 - 6:53 PM (HideShow) |
| just wondering, how do you guys deal with lock shaman? | |
| Torment | May 7, 2009 - 4:26 AM (HideShow) |
| Kmage, I wouldn't say its a dead comp as it has existed since s1 and still will. I'm not running it because I wanted to try something new (played over 1000 Lock/Mage games). The meta game has definitely not played in favour of it though, and I can see why its struggling. Shinsui, we dealt with Lock/Shaman in two ways. We either zerged the Shaman down and CC'd the Lock or did the opposite. Killing the Shaman decides the match quickly and if you coordinate your lockouts well its very doable. | |
| Bastax | May 8, 2009 - 6:29 PM (HideShow) |
| -What would you take, what do you think is better from lower rank Furious weapons? [Furious Gladiator's Battle Staff] or [Furious Gladiator's Spellblade]+[Furious Gladiator's Endgame]? -Staff with 81spelldmg enchant vs Dagger+Offhand with 63spelldmg enchant. 6Resi, 6Crit, 31Stamina, 1Bonus Socket OR 61spelldmg? -I will get Resi, Crit, Stamina and Socket if I take staff and spelldmg if I take dagger+offhand. | |
| Xaracos | May 9, 2009 - 5:28 AM (HideShow) |
| this combo still works in 3.1?? | |
| Xaracos | May 9, 2009 - 5:30 AM (HideShow) |
| torment, is there any games you have posted around the place i can watch to get the Lock's POV down a little better:) also is there a vent that your on a fair bit of the time that i can jump on and chat about a few things a bit more, rather than posting on here like 300 times lol.. | |
| Jush | May 9, 2009 - 5:49 PM (HideShow) |
| To anyone asking if this comp still works post 3.1, yes it does. Obviously the recent influx of rogue teams makes your life a living hell sometimes if you're running mage/warlock; however, most rogue teams are honestly manageable if you don't get unlucky. (As Im writing this we're currently at 2364) | |
| Xaracos | May 10, 2009 - 10:24 PM (HideShow) |
| jush do you think you could get your partner to record some games with fraps or something so i can watch them :) and see what im ment to be doing more haha | |
| Jush | May 11, 2009 - 12:49 AM (HideShow) |
| Xaracos, I'll ask. We honestly do almost exactly what Torment says to do in this guide though, lol. Torment is pro. | |
| Torment | May 11, 2009 - 5:42 AM (HideShow) |
| Bastax, get the staff if you're gemming haste otherwise I'd just recommened going with the offhand/mainhand combo. Xaracos, as Jush said it still works but is definitely more frustrating having to deal with an increased amount of Rogues. Pre 3.1 Priest/Rogue was very manageable and that's the main comp that went up in popularity. | |
| Torment | May 11, 2009 - 5:42 AM (HideShow) |
| Glad to see you doing well with the comp Jush, hope it continues to go well. | |
| Jush | May 11, 2009 - 8:36 PM (HideShow) |
| Thanks Torment ^^ | |
| Gömd | May 12, 2009 - 6:51 AM (HideShow) |
| Hey and thanks for a great guide. I have very reacently started to play this setup as a mage with a lock friend. As all others we can manage most teams but are consistantly farmed by rogue teams and teams with good ret's. Im still a bit rusty on my mage skills as i mainly play rogue and just dusted off my mage. you could easilly say that both me and my partner have some lacking skills in the 1v1 departemend and i guess as we get better that might fix alot of things for us. As u may guess our problem is lock getting new a-holes 24/7. However we have run into some setups we really have no clue what to do. 3 sec long games. 1. Ret/rogue 2. Feral/rogue 3. Ret/enhance 4. DK/enhance 1. simply CoS/bubble>>>lock raped 2. I get saped, theyr jump lock rogue CoS. I trinket, deepfreeze druid, he trinets lock dead. 3. We thought we were at the zoo seeing an enhance shaman so we starrted looking for bananas 4. we couldn't believe there was 2 of them outhere. Basicly the shaman is a mystery for us. sprint for what seems like one month, slowing the lock, imp dispelling slows, grounding and the god damn doggies. we simply have no clue. "Wall of text crits you for #(/&¤%&"/%" - sorry for that. | |
| Xaracos | May 13, 2009 - 12:22 PM (HideShow) |
| hey guys xara again.. is there a fourm for rogue/warlock strats??? | |
| Purewin | May 16, 2009 - 12:09 AM (HideShow) |
| First off, thanks a lot for this guide. Its such a fun setup to play. We're having some trouble with warlock+rogue tho. The fight goes like this: Rogue opens on lock lock seduces rogue rogue trinkets/wotf's it lock seduces rogue enemy lock shadowfury's lock + pet, breaking seduce on rogue rogue vanishes rogue garrotes warlock (silence) warlock dies. The mage is trying to sheep the enemy warlock but he can just trinket -> shadowfury and they have won. Any ideas on what to do? | |
| Jush | May 16, 2009 - 2:04 AM (HideShow) |
| Not sure how succesful Torment was against good 2DPS rogue teams, however, amazing mage/rogue and warlock/rogue teams have given us serious trouble >< Your best bet is having your warlock teleport very early, hopefully after having forced early cloak, and just kill the rogue. If anything it'll come down to a 1v1 between you and the warlock. | |
| Jush | May 16, 2009 - 2:06 AM (HideShow) |
| Edit: it's very important to silence their warlock early on. If you let him get off deathcoil / shadowfury at a bad time it'll be over. | |
| Torment | May 18, 2009 - 3:03 AM (HideShow) |
| Gomd, against Ret/Rogue you'll want to control the Paladin as early and as best as possible (pref via sheeps) while nuking the Rogue down. Shadowfury/howl of terror is nice if the Paladin got a hand of sac on the Rogue and you need a bit of time to spell steal it. Burn CDs on the Rogue early, port the cloak, healthstone/bandage - Mage try to break his vanish etc and try to freeze/fear/nuke spam him to death after the reopener, while maintaining Seduces/Sheeps on the Paladin. Against Feral Rogue try to get some early CC on the Rogue, blow coils/freezes and ports early against the Druid. Ideally you'll want to blow the Feral up quickly then move onto Rogue. If you die and the Feral is at least dead your Mage has a good shot to win the 1v1. Against Ret/Enhance just try to kill the Enhance while controlling the Ret as best as possible. A good shadowfury -> aoe fear while destroying the tremor (totem stomp/icelance) should buy you some time and burn a trinket. Sheeps on the Paladin to follow while kiting/nuking the Enhance. For DK/enhance I'd recommend trying to CC the Shaman as best as possible and nuking the DK down. These matches aren't going to last long and you'll need to know how to perform under immediate pressure like that. Good luck. | |
| Torment | May 18, 2009 - 3:05 AM (HideShow) |
| Purewin, your best bet is again the Rogue here. Get your portal down asap, put your pet on stay away from you and be ready to do your normal Seduce/nuke Spam on the Rogue. Save CS for the Locks fire tree, whether its an immolate or chaos bolt - doesn't matter, CS one. Sheep/Seduce the Lock as best as possible afterwards (should be easy if he has a Succubus and not too bad even with a Felhunter). Your goal is too really lock out the Warlock and kill the Rogue, nothing much more to be said. | |
| Torment | May 18, 2009 - 5:53 AM (HideShow) |
| I should have the updated builds/macros/glyphs/general information being edited in soon, sorry for the long wait. | |
| Bonechip | May 19, 2009 - 6:09 AM (HideShow) |
| Having this guide updated would be amazing seeing how I'll be playing this with a real live friend of mine soonish. Thanks for all the hard work so far. :) | |
| Kmage | May 19, 2009 - 10:47 AM (HideShow) |
| Can you talk about War/Dru given how popular that comp is right now? The druid can pillar hump all day while rolling hots and it's impossible to put enough pressure on the warrior since whoever he charges won't be able to cast much. Wins only come when the Warrior overextends himself and druid has to come out, but on maps like Dalaran Sewers, we've never won a game. Since Jush is still playing the comp, maybe he could comment? | |
| Phayze | May 19, 2009 - 3:46 PM (HideShow) |
| How viable will this team be compared to some of our tougher matchups after todays patch? | |
| Prefix | May 20, 2009 - 1:13 AM (HideShow) |
| It's even more viable now, conflagrate hits about the same and Chaos Bolt hits even harder now. | |
| Fìvn | May 20, 2009 - 1:52 PM (HideShow) |
| After the patch I've noticed my conflag hits a little hard, incinerate hits a fair amount harder, and I've had 10K chaos bolt crits with so-so spell power (1730 unbuffed). The team will probably be just fine. What I'm curious about is this: will the change to VW sac change some of our options for pets? Running with the succy obviously gives us room to seduce a rogue early and get away, which a lot of strats depend on, but if you know it's a rogue coming out of the gate what types of situations would it be best to just call out that VW and hope to catch the rogue with consume shadows? It'll also give the 8K+ bubble with SL still active. Any thoughts? | |
| Sottomis | May 21, 2009 - 10:57 AM (HideShow) |
| also going back to running this team again, from mage/rogue. Should i have my warlock portal the second the rogue opens? | |
| Phayze | May 21, 2009 - 12:23 PM (HideShow) |
| You should usually be able to open up on the Rogue before having to portal. Have a portal ready to use, when the rogue pops on you spam seduce, if wotf/trinket first follow it up with Chaos Bolt Shadowfury Corruption then port and expect cloak. | |
| Jush | May 21, 2009 - 12:24 PM (HideShow) |
| You're going to want to have your warlock seduce as soon as the rogue opens, and spam it so if he trinkets he just gets hit with another one. If he trinkets and cloaks, I'd say yes. Tell your warlock to get the hell out of there | |
| Meruu | May 21, 2009 - 7:10 PM (HideShow) |
| Thanks for this guide. We're the 10th on the list of the Mage/Warlocks and it really is fun to play a double caster comp that can shine. | |
| Sottomis | May 23, 2009 - 6:57 PM (HideShow) |
| ah im having a lot of trouble playing this now, I just feel like my warlock gets absolutely torn apart again any good team with a rogue/dk/retpally. Even warriors with bladestorm are giving us tons of trouble. Anyone know a good mage/lock video to watch to try and learn? | |
| Torment | May 23, 2009 - 10:38 PM (HideShow) |
| Fivn, I've tried the Voidwalker strat but it is very easy to counter as the Rogue team if they know the mechanics of the ability. You can keep the pet in combat to stop the channeling of the spell at which point the Rogue can move in. It would allow you the bubble for the opener but I'm not quite convinced that would be enough. You can try it out though, see if its helping you more. Sottomis, only portal asap if he precloaks. Kmage, as far as Warrior/Druid is concerned well you have plenty of options to CC the Warrior almost endlessly. Alone I can kill a Druid no problem, so with the Mages help a nice swap to the Druid shortly after engaging with proper CC on the Warrior should land you the win. | |
| Torment | May 23, 2009 - 11:27 PM (HideShow) |
| Also Sottomis, it seems that Trigshady is working on making a video, so perhaps that will be of some help to you. | |
| Hinote | May 24, 2009 - 1:49 PM (HideShow) |
| I may make a video once I pick up some recording software, but honestly, me and my partner have been having trouble getting out of the 1600s due to the fact that every other team has a freaking rogue on it. So I'm probably not the best example. :/ | |
| Bodileto | May 25, 2009 - 3:59 PM (HideShow) |
| Glyph of Soul link is unecesary for this 2v2 combo, is an extra 2.5% reduce damage... if anything it will make your succubus die faster. the key to this combo is range and burst, so i would go with immolate or incinerate (all depends on ur playstyle, which one does more damage at the end of a skirmish... use recount to measure while doing some skirms) | |
| Bodileto | May 25, 2009 - 4:00 PM (HideShow) |
| also vw shield is only ~2k, i would pefer having a seducing succubus.. yet use the VW towards the end if its 1v1 or u r low on hp | |
| Torment | May 25, 2009 - 4:59 PM (HideShow) |
| "Note: Some may prefer to use the Immolate glyph over the Shadowflame or Soul Link glyph, but those 4 are the most common used among Destruction Warlocks." Some people also do 3s with a healer and don't feel like spending gold swapping them every time. But yes, soul link isn't huge for 2s Mage/Lock. | |
| Bastax | May 26, 2009 - 11:05 PM (HideShow) |
| Torment, help with glyph decission: soul link/conflagrate/succubus or soul link/conflagrate/immolate or soul link/immolate/something else i duel alot and conflagrate glyph can fuck me up 1v1 when im using succy if i dont have succubus glyph.. i think sl/conflagrate/immolate is best for 2s but sometimes i need to seduce target and if immolate is on that target i just use confli to remove it b4 seducing... | |
| Bastax | May 26, 2009 - 11:07 PM (HideShow) |
| maybe i could even go immolate / conflagrate / succubus.. but i think sl glyph is needed. | |
| Bastax | May 26, 2009 - 11:13 PM (HideShow) |
| sry for third post in a row, i cant decide between these 4 sets of glyphs: soul link/conflagrate/succubus soul link/conflagrate/immolate soul link/shadowflame/immolate succubus/conflagrate/immolate ty :) | |
| Bastax | May 26, 2009 - 11:23 PM (HideShow) |
| oh and btw, today's patch notes: Chaos Bolt: This spell no longer ignores damage reduction effects of the target. :S !!! | |
| Ghostrâider | May 28, 2009 - 8:22 PM (HideShow) |
| OK...what do we do against rogues? i mean what CC do we kill it? we only loose to rogue makeups and frankly there are a ton atm pplz help -Ghost | |
| Magedeth | May 30, 2009 - 2:48 PM (HideShow) |
| From 2300+ rating ==> 2180ish in 2 days :S .. facing melee + healer setups 25ish out of 30 games... got effing wotlk'd... anyone else familiar with this sh!t? *rerolling a warrior* cya. | |
| Ptomely | May 30, 2009 - 9:09 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey Torment, we've made more progress from last season, but we keep getting rolled by druids (resto). With the banish nerf, I find it better to fear them, but after fear is on DR, we can't CC him well enough to stop him from healing his partner. Any tips? | |
| Phayze | May 31, 2009 - 4:13 AM (HideShow) |
| Any ideas on what to do against Rogue/RDruid? | |
| Cainul | Jun 1, 2009 - 3:52 PM (HideShow) |
| Seduce spam the druid, and sit on the rogue. When DR is up, sheep the rogue, swap, and zerg the crap out of the druid hoping hes in a relatively bad spot. Swap back over when DR is favorable. Fighting against Warlock Comps, Torment, why don't you recommend just killing the pet? My Mage and I have found it extremely easy, even against smart Locks that know how to protect it/Feldom a new one (We kill the new one as well). Often we can wear the Healer+Lock OOM, and Trinket/WotF less over the course of the kill. Relying on Banish has just seemed to be a bad idea when chain fearing/seducing/Poly'ing the Lock and his partner while killing their utility source is as easy as it is. | |
| Phayze | Jun 1, 2009 - 9:42 PM (HideShow) |
| Can't seduce tree's. | |
| Cainul | Jun 2, 2009 - 2:16 AM (HideShow) |
| Threaten him with banish, or just Fear him. Shadowfury- X if you're enjoying a pillar humper. | |
| Wallirik | Jun 2, 2009 - 4:54 AM (HideShow) |
| gonna be fun when the numbers update, i just got world highest mage lock again (first to 2,1k in "early" s5) it's a really funny setup, but man those priest rogues annoy me (priest spamming dispell so it's completely impossible to get the rogue away and do some dmg) | |
| Gömd | Jun 2, 2009 - 2:40 PM (HideShow) |
| We are just starting to get the hang of this setup, most comps seems doeable even if we still fail a bit. however we are quite aware of most of our errors. Tho we have a big problem. its called: ROGUE. any rogue+random dps is chaos, and rogue +healer is hard. Last night we got formed by roguue/moonkin for like 5-6 games or so. we tried lots of different strats, best shot was me (playing mage) killing moonkin while lock kits rogue, but by the time i get the moonkin down (wich usually was just seconds after their opener) lock is down and rogue is gone, and im afraiid my 1v1 skills against rogues isn't the best. problem isnt the comp tho, its the rogue, he could prolly have taken us 1v2. we have a really hard time getting anything done against rogue comps. lock dies in a fiew gcd's and then im alone and we loose. If hes with mage/priest/lock i kinda spend my first gcds with trinket/IB cc's and when i finally get something done its to late. I really dont know how to help the lock with peals since i often have to go defensive to avoid cc's and when i can aid he CoS. help kiteing rogue/cc his partner/cc rogue/just nuke? sounds really ez when you explain openers against rogue comps, but really I feel quite helpless just watching my partner go down. Sadly enough majority of the teams in our BG at our rating has rogues in them =P Sorry for another wall of text... | |
| Migz | Jun 3, 2009 - 12:59 PM (HideShow) |
| would like to thank you, Torment- for giving us an awesome and viable comp, me and my mage friend are steamrolling with this and are sitting at 2370 :) thanks, again. | |
| Magedeth | Jun 4, 2009 - 6:26 AM (HideShow) |
| Rogue takes skill. | |
| Nausis | Jun 5, 2009 - 5:59 PM (HideShow) |
| My mate and Me have a problem with Rogue/Rdruid any know what to do here? | |
| Jaydi | Jun 7, 2009 - 1:05 PM (HideShow) |
| Torment, a Resto Shaman / Destruction Warlock - Strategy is missing here! May be you and Clefable could create one, would be awesome. ,) | |
| Korîal | Jun 10, 2009 - 10:49 AM (HideShow) |
| Sounds really really good and fun to play. Just got to find a lock :D I'm happy that theres something to play other than rogue/mage. I'm pretty sick of it. No good rogues on Un'goro at all :/ | |
| Deadmau | Jun 12, 2009 - 5:52 PM (HideShow) |
| hey what about paladin(ret) / priest? i still dont know how to beat them.. hope u can help me | |
| Shive | Jun 14, 2009 - 2:19 AM (HideShow) |
| Imagene this: Defensive playing aff-lock + disc priest, dalaran arena, both bloodelf(2x aoe/melee silence :S) What do u do? if possible these guys just run out, dot/dispell, and hides again. And when every match start, my warlock always has void out to get the barrier, n then he summons succubus. <- is that smart? | |
| Gömd | Jun 14, 2009 - 9:44 PM (HideShow) |
| We have found the best strategy for Disc/ret to open up with cc on both of em, wich you sheep or seduce doesnt really matter most of the times, but we usually start of with sheep on the priest and seduce on the pally. this to get some time for positioning and not making the pally able to dispell the priest. Nuke pally while spamming seduce on priest, swap to sheeps. if pally gets bubble up there are some options. just kite him and then start over when bubble is down. Keep priest in constant cc to have the pally heal himself instead of chasing you around, this lets one of you get som time to recover any dmg taken. also possible to swap to nuking the priest when pally bubbles. either just kill the priest and cc paly when bubble breaks. or just swap back to pally after bubble. we usually dont have any problems with this setup, but on the otherhand we dont face many good rets at our rating. We find the hardest teams being ones where paly and briest basicly spamdispell eachother. then try to kite pally out of LoS to get some solid nukes. Hope thats some help for you. | |
| Deadmau | Jun 16, 2009 - 7:37 PM (HideShow) |
| alright.. thanks a lot :) | |
| Torment | Jun 18, 2009 - 1:30 AM (HideShow) |
| Shive, if you have the time to get the barrier and hardsummon a succubus out without them engaging you then its fine. As far as the boxes/turtling on Dalaran is concerned - yeah, that's always a bitch for any team you'll encounter. One thing we would do is engage them asap and make sure right off the bat they weren't even close to the boxes. From there you just keep the pressure up on the lock and cc the priest. If the priest is also in a bad position and has burned pain sup/trinket the priest is definitely a viable target, assuming you time your lockouts well. | |
| Torment | Jun 18, 2009 - 1:33 AM (HideShow) |
| Deadmau, what Gomd suggested is a great idea and probably the best way to approach them. I'd suggest landing a sheep on the Paladin however, and as your partner is sheeping have him call it on vent so you can seduce simultaneously to stop the cross dispel. Alternatively you can be offensive with your CS to ensure you get both in the initial CC. From there you'll want to train the hell out of the Ret Paladin while maintaining CC on the Priest. Ideally you'll want to keep him from dispelling his partner as long as possible so make use of fear/nuke weaving + timing stuns properly. | |
| Torment | Jun 18, 2009 - 1:35 AM (HideShow) |
| Jaydi, if I get some serious playing time in with my new comps (R. Druid/Destruction + R. Druid/Lock/Mage) I may add some more guides. | |
| Mitzi | Jun 18, 2009 - 8:49 AM (HideShow) |
| Still stuck around 1700 due to understuff a lot of exotic comps (enh sham what ?) but starting to get the hang of the comp. BTW there's a video on warcraft movies out for destro / frost, crediting this guide :) http://tinyurl.com/mcprrp | |
| Torment | Jun 18, 2009 - 9:31 AM (HideShow) |
| Thanks for the link Mitzi, I'll be sure to get it placed in the guide somewhere. | |
| Prefixlol | Jun 24, 2009 - 4:48 AM (HideShow) |
| This comp is extremely fun, if you enjoy this setup you may want to try Rshaman/Mage/Lock for 3s. | |
| Torment | Jun 24, 2009 - 3:30 PM (HideShow) |
| Yes and after playing with a resto druid and shaman in 3s I prefer a shaman. Games are short so lust is amazing. | |
| Híde | Jun 30, 2009 - 3:06 AM (HideShow) |
| i really really dont understand how you are ever supposed to beat a rogue. it goes like this. - rogue opens - warlock seduces - warlock is at 75% health before seduce goes off - rogue trinkets - lock gets to 50% - second seduce goes off - we do some burst to the rogue, but nowhere near enough to kill him w/ a bubble - rogue cloaks - warlock ports - rogue sprints to warlock and kills him in the 4s cloak. Warlock at 22k health with 740 resil | |
| Shinsui | Jul 1, 2009 - 4:33 AM (HideShow) |
| do you have the imp succy talent? cause with it, if its just a rogue on me he takes off no more than 10% each time he breaks a seduce. THen I get far enough away and plan a burst combo | |
| Híde | Jul 1, 2009 - 6:53 PM (HideShow) |
| yeah we're getting a little better at rogue/priest - the ones we were fighting before were wearing alot of pve gear I think. it really sucks when the rogue is UD and can get out of two seduces -.- our new problem seems to be druid/dk. we play it like any other comp, kill DK cc druid. it all goes well, but we simply can't survive long enough to get a kill. the dk almost never touches my warlock, port the death grip, etc etc. however with their ridiculous amount of defensive cooldowns the dk will always live long enough to get a gargoyle up. and with gargle and ghoul pet on my warlock, he will die in about 30 seconds even if the DK never touches him. | |
| Coldræ | Jul 2, 2009 - 4:15 AM (HideShow) |
| I like your guide a lot, just started doing dedicated arena recently. Can you relay some hints in regards to synergy and some good basic pointers for me and my Lock partner. Sorry for the vagueness. As for a specific question, you say priests (disc) are the easiest to CC, my Lock seduces the healer, I poly the healer after seduce, one usually gets poly'd and then I CS and lock the heals, but even after this we can't get the partner down before the priest is bubbling/healing again. tbh I've found druid teams almost easier. | |
| Urnitemare | Jul 4, 2009 - 12:56 PM (HideShow) |
| I read somewhere that the goal spell pen. is around 120 for pvp. Is this correct ? | |
| Shive | Jul 4, 2009 - 4:38 PM (HideShow) |
| Urnitemare, :P, the reason why it's often around 120 in pvp is coz; most auras gives 120 resistance (pala aura, priest aura, shammy totems, etc), mages have with 20/0/51 spec 80 resistance + 40 from mage armour. | |
 Fishtank | Jul 5, 2009 - 8:12 PM (HideShow) |
| Thanks for making these guides. They've been pretty useful for the most part. There's a couple comps that I'm seeing a LOT these days that I really can't figure a good way around: Warlock/Ret - Opening on the ret is kind of a gamble, especially if they're very aggressive and don't give the lock a chance to get away from his portal. Opening on the warlock is a lesson in futility as nether protection and frost resist aura bring our dps down to worthless amounts. A full shatter + immo/chaos/conflag on the lock will pretty much be healed by a healthstone. BM/Ret - Not much to say here, they just pop BM, send the pet on the warlock and zerg him. No escape. The hunter really doesn't even do anything except stay out of LoS. We tried killing the pet asap but its survival time is about the same as the lock due to no on-demand shatters on the pet. The thing I've really noticed about this comp is that it's VERY dependent on the arena. We almost never lose in blade's edge since the lock puts a portal up top and we try to fight down below. Dalaran arena is a nightmare against pretty much any comp other than like hunter/pally. | |
| Cabléguy | Jul 7, 2009 - 9:45 AM (HideShow) |
| I wanna say thank you, this is a great guide and the combo is so much fun! tho it would be nice with some taccs against comps as: Warrior/Discpriest, Druid/rogue, Warr/shaman aso =) thanks again for these awsome guide m8 | |
| Urnitemare | Jul 7, 2009 - 11:46 PM (HideShow) |
| Any suggestions for going up against Pally/DK ? My mage friend and I got owned the other day (4 or 5 games in a row :-( ) Would a felhunter be my best choice for a pet in this particular matchup ? Just curious because my Succi was a complete non factor. Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. | |
| Gömd | Jul 8, 2009 - 8:06 AM (HideShow) |
| Pally/DK dont know if u have problems with ret/dk or Holy/dk, but vs any of those we go with succ. we start of with seduce on the pally and sheep on the dk, get in possition and nuke the DK, at DR on seduce swap to sheep on pally, u can usually keep pallys cc'd most of the time out of bubble. DK prolly goes for lock, make sure to save portal till after dg. hope thats some help atleast... | |
| Zerovirus | Jul 10, 2009 - 6:14 PM (HideShow) |
| Me and my buddy just started a team, and he is way better arcane...so far were at like 1200. and im pretty sure we can go 1850 atleast..but is frost much better for this comp? i mean ... how much better? | |
| Bonechip | Jul 13, 2009 - 6:46 AM (HideShow) |
| Just think about the extra controle your partner has as frost. More novas more tools to prevent anything from touching you allowing you to blow stuff up. | |
| Cutebaby | Jul 18, 2009 - 7:57 AM (HideShow) |
| What is the macro "/cast !Shadowfury(Rank 5) " supposed to do really? | |
| Grossisten | Jul 19, 2009 - 8:24 AM (HideShow) |
| if u spam it the targeting circle doesn't go away every second click. | |
| Zelas | Jul 20, 2009 - 3:56 PM (HideShow) |
| Hello. We're playing the same combo with my friend and reached 1750. Aiming for more, but we got a few question and would be grateful if you could answer. 1) What's about priest/ ench shaman? The shaman is always going for mage and I can't really damage him as he's got insane burst. 2) Warlock should take Glyph of Shadowflame or Glyph of Immolate? Currently we meet a lot of melee-based combos(rogue/retri, rogue/feral, etc) | |
| Zelas | Jul 20, 2009 - 3:58 PM (HideShow) |
| Ah and sorry, can't edit my message, forgot to add 1 troublesome combo - Priest(disc) + frost mage. | |
| Cosmonia | Jul 21, 2009 - 5:11 AM (HideShow) |
| Our rating sucks at the moment, but we have had fun playing this comp. When we get things going it works really well. However, noob rogue/ + any other class teams just rape us purely because the rogue shuts me down completely. Unless we are lucky any rogue team wins. Pretty frustrating :( | |
| Arnamo | Jul 22, 2009 - 1:25 AM (HideShow) |
| Well guys its actually kinda weard my lock goes always with his voidwalker if we get dubbel stealth casu he is just getting RAPED by the rogue very singel time we kinda never won against a skilled rogue cause they just stun lock him >then he uses trinket and they kidney shot him and by the time that one is over he is dead and i cant do anyhting casde rogue is going with cloak of shadows doing all this...what do you suggest ? | |
| Arnamo | Jul 22, 2009 - 1:26 AM (HideShow) |
| And the lock aloso cant portal away due that u cant use portal while under stun so..... | |
| Krùmel | Jul 22, 2009 - 6:33 PM (HideShow) |
| Hi Torment, did your makro work? (Mashable Shadowfury) in german version in 3.1 it didn't work | |
| Torment | Jul 23, 2009 - 9:24 PM (HideShow) |
| Zelas, theres not much to say about enhancement/priest, you really should never beat them so unless theyre really bad I could only suggest to you spam killing tremor, landing whatever CC you can on the Priest and nuking the Shaman. He has tremor totem for seduces/fears, shocks/grounding for polys, does insane damage to cloth and shutdowns their damage quite well, has great self healing while his wolves are out, shamanistic rage, priest can LoS casted CC on top of his shaman covering that for him. Its a rarely met counter, so either dodge or take the losses : \. I'd go with glyph of Immolate, overall its just better. Krumel, the macro works fine for me so not sure what to tell you. /cast !(spell name) should work. I've quit WoW but I may check in on the comments here and there but there for sure will be no more updates and you guys may be best off PM'ing players from the top 5 you see here for advice. Good luck. | |
| Zelas | Jul 24, 2009 - 8:20 AM (HideShow) |
| Thanks for the answer, Torment. Sorry to hear that you're quitting. Good luck and have fun. :) | |
| Hajie | Jul 31, 2009 - 3:27 AM (HideShow) |
| Thanks for the guide me and my friend have read this and it has increased our rating ALOT ! | |
| Дестран | Aug 9, 2009 - 12:59 AM (HideShow) |
| now we are back to this comp... and it ROCKS :D | |
| Febreze | Aug 18, 2009 - 6:33 AM (HideShow) |
| ok so is this comp dead with 3.2 we just cant seem to win with it. also ignore my raitings i have been bouncing around alot. | |
| Chimerias | Aug 19, 2009 - 1:57 PM (HideShow) |
| I feel that 3.2 has made it harder to play this comp though I may be wrong ... we used to land kills during cc's and a bit of luck with some crits from my cb + conflag. With the resilience buff and the tiny damage reduce on my bolts, it's harder to land some kills. what's more, chamans are a pain :( either resto or enhancement they completely break our control and it seems like pillar sucking restos can manage to heal themselves or their friend with only riptide and earth shield. what do you think ? got any advice ? | |
| Дестран | Aug 20, 2009 - 8:26 AM (HideShow) |
| 3.2 made it easier imo | |
| Torment | Aug 23, 2009 - 11:39 PM (HideShow) |
| I thought 2v2 was soon to be dead anyways, so why not just nab a healer and do 3s? | |
| Torment | Aug 23, 2009 - 11:40 PM (HideShow) |
| This comp works well against Paladin healers and Priest healers. If the meta game in 2s is benefiting druids/rogues/shamans you'll probably be in for some difficult matches. | |
| Ассамит | Aug 24, 2009 - 1:33 PM (HideShow) |
| best comp <3 | |
| Дестран | Aug 24, 2009 - 2:01 PM (HideShow) |
| Paladin(prot) is a bit pains in the ass, cuz 2xsacrifice + auramastery + bubble chain makes it deadly for you | |
| Дестран | Aug 26, 2009 - 6:33 AM (HideShow) |
| 2815 we were close to furious but.... | |
| Martos | Sep 11, 2009 - 2:01 PM (HideShow) |
| anything rogue seems to be our problem | |
| Wijkx | Sep 23, 2009 - 4:49 PM (HideShow) |
| Torment do you do this combo urself or did it fail too much? | |
| Wijkx | Sep 23, 2009 - 4:59 PM (HideShow) |
| why is there no pally pally matchups probably teh hardest in the game for every combo | |
| Omgroflpwned | Sep 29, 2009 - 2:20 PM (HideShow) |
| See me and my mage partner will fight a rogue rogue or rogue, druid....a very hard fight indeed but we seem to do fairly well against them...all we need is for one of them to make a mistake, like being .5 seconds late on a cheapshot or to use there trinket on my dc and then its game over...but if they are good and on point its game over for us | |
 Domínator | Sep 30, 2009 - 6:00 AM (HideShow) |
| love your guides Torment, LOVE YOU TORMENT <3 | |
| Chaosphere | Oct 8, 2009 - 11:24 AM (HideShow) |
| fun comp. rolling with a great mage. cant seem to survive warriors though. | |
| Boogidabas | Oct 13, 2009 - 4:29 PM (HideShow) |
| Think you can suggest something for Rogue/Rogue? Since you still occasionally run into that even up to the 1800's. | |
| Boogidabas | Oct 13, 2009 - 4:33 PM (HideShow) |
| Also, any team with a rogue or feral druid seems to demolish us. Usually when a rogue opens on my lock he is below 50% health within 4-5 seconds. We have even tried him using VW sac and we've tried me double sheeping the rogue. Any further suggestions or do you think he just needs to stack more resil? He's rolling with about 800 resil and 24k health right now. | |
| Boogidabas | Oct 20, 2009 - 1:48 PM (HideShow) |
| Ugh, it seems like literally 2/3 of the teams we run into are Rogue/Healer or Rogue/Mage. Even a few Rogue/Lock. We are able to beat Rogue/Priest and Rogue/Pally about 50% of the time, but all other Rogue teams are basically an auto-loss. Even when I am able to get the Rogue out of stealth, he just vanishes and demolishes my Lock with his opener. Seduce gets trinketed or WotF'd, Sheeps get dispelled, we get wrecked. We went down 240 points yesterday fighting one Rogue team after another... this is soooooooo frustrating. | |
| Micx | Oct 27, 2009 - 4:05 AM (HideShow) |
| i play this combo since 3 days and i'm just loving it | |
| Micx | Oct 27, 2009 - 4:06 AM (HideShow) |
| sorry for wrong grammatic :o | |
| Setinho | Oct 27, 2009 - 12:33 PM (HideShow) |
| rogue/druid is plain impossible, aswell disc priest/retadin is hard too because they just dispell each other so u cant do shit, rest is managable... vs rogue/mage the best option for u is to make the fight 1o1 make ur mage go agressive so fast so he avoids sap and keeps pressuring mage, u can handle rogue 1o1 as destro easily no matter if hes undead or not | |
| Erdrah | Oct 30, 2009 - 12:08 AM (HideShow) |
| rogue/feral druid just isn't fun lol | |
| Skellingtoon | Nov 2, 2009 - 8:57 PM (HideShow) |
| Hey, just wondering, why are you suggesting Glyph of Exhaustion for your minor? I know they are really all garbage, but you don't even have that skill as destro. Major glyphs: Death Coil, Chaos Bolt, and either Conflagrate or Shadowflame. I rarely, if ever, use Shadowflame unless I am hunting Rogues, so it seems a wasted glyph. The other option is to go both Conflagrate and SF, and repace Chaos Bolt, but you are trading off a defensive glyph (for the slow on SF) and the increased burst of Chaos Bolt. Given that you have so much in the way of defensive spells with the mage's slows and novas, I would skip the SF glyph. | |
| Genmó | Nov 4, 2009 - 9:08 AM (HideShow) |
| Canflag/succubus/Incinerate is the best choice i think | |
| Genmó | Nov 4, 2009 - 9:09 AM (HideShow) |
| (glyphs) | |
| Ampre | Nov 5, 2009 - 12:22 AM (HideShow) |
| REAL Question is what about DK RESTO DROOD | |
| Ampre | Nov 5, 2009 - 12:22 AM (HideShow) |
| REAL Question is what about DK RESTO DROOD | |
| Ampre | Nov 5, 2009 - 12:22 AM (HideShow) |
| REAL Question is what about DK RESTO DROOD | |
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