Strategies
Dreamstate Druid/Rogue
- Dreamstate Druid/Rogue
- Matchups
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- Suggest Strategies
Author
  | Mithos Madmortem EU-Blutdurst |
  | Dreamstate Druid/Rogue | VS. |  | Druid/Warlock |
Dreamstate/Rogue is easily one of the best counters to Warlock/Druid. You basically try to kill both of the Warlock pets and then stick to the Warlock.
When the match starts, your Rogue should Sap the Warlock, and get on the pet.
By the time the Druid comes out of stealth, you should Cyclone him 3 times in order to give your Rogue the time to kill the pet. If their Druid does insist on healing the pet, he will go OOM faster than you for sure. In this period you are chain-Cycloning between the Warlock and the Druid. When the Fel Hunter dies your Rogue should stick on the Warlock and (assuming you can't Kick the Warlock's Fel Domination) wait to see what the Warlock does. If he summons the Fel Hunter again, your Rogue should kill it the second time. If he summons the Void, your Rogue should simply stick on the Warlock.
Now, you can take your time, get full HoTs on your Rogue (he should have Cloak of Shadows ready, in the case he still gets low) and you can pull the pet to the other end of the arena. You can kill the pet behind a pillar and root it to secure that the pet doesn't get back into the fray easily. Normally you can kill the Void the first time like this.
If the Warlock has no more pets, you should stick on the Warlock and counter his summons by Cycloning, or Shadow Step -> Kick. The Warlock should never get his pet again. Normally, at this point you have already won, simply because you can chain CC the Druid and do all the damage you want on the Warlock all while the Druid can not keep on getting the Warlock up. (Even if it takes a time, when both pets are dead you really shouldn't lose.)
When the match starts, your Rogue should Sap the Warlock, and get on the pet.
By the time the Druid comes out of stealth, you should Cyclone him 3 times in order to give your Rogue the time to kill the pet. If their Druid does insist on healing the pet, he will go OOM faster than you for sure. In this period you are chain-Cycloning between the Warlock and the Druid. When the Fel Hunter dies your Rogue should stick on the Warlock and (assuming you can't Kick the Warlock's Fel Domination) wait to see what the Warlock does. If he summons the Fel Hunter again, your Rogue should kill it the second time. If he summons the Void, your Rogue should simply stick on the Warlock.
Now, you can take your time, get full HoTs on your Rogue (he should have Cloak of Shadows ready, in the case he still gets low) and you can pull the pet to the other end of the arena. You can kill the pet behind a pillar and root it to secure that the pet doesn't get back into the fray easily. Normally you can kill the Void the first time like this.
If the Warlock has no more pets, you should stick on the Warlock and counter his summons by Cycloning, or Shadow Step -> Kick. The Warlock should never get his pet again. Normally, at this point you have already won, simply because you can chain CC the Druid and do all the damage you want on the Warlock all while the Druid can not keep on getting the Warlock up. (Even if it takes a time, when both pets are dead you really shouldn't lose.)
Tips
- If the Warlock gets the Void back too early, and you assume that the Druid can heal it up, just Cyclone the pet 3 times, the HoTs won't heal the pet and the Warlock will lose his Soul Link.
- You should Root the Void when he has 60% health(generally) behind a pillar. In this case the Warlock cannot send his pet back.
- If the Warlock's Druid does run to the other end of the arena, just to heal the pet, you can sometimes kill the Warlock by Cycloning the Druid 3 times, and when he uses his Insignia (which occurs quite often) and he gets into Travel Form in order to run back to his Warlock, you can instant Hibernate him 10 seconds to finish the Warlock.
- If the enemy team gets the Void back too early, so that you can't kill the pet, you can get some seconds to drink.
Comments: | |
|---|---|
 Darood | May 29, 2008 - 7:49 PM (HideShow) |
| For some reason me and my partner have always had trouble with this matchup DS or Not. "You basically kill both of the warlock pets" this is where our problem lies. it differs from pala/warlock where only the warlock can keep you from killing the pet, it's easy to cc the pala when it gets low. The problem we have is when playing with a druid there is so much more they can do to keep my rogue of the pet. We've tries lossing but it usually just creates problems for my rogue to keep up with the cc spam on him. Any tips would be appreaciated thanks :) | |
 Mithos | May 31, 2008 - 4:18 AM (HideShow) |
| Ok, some general things about killing the pets. A Voidwalker is often easier to kill than the felhunter. I have faced lots of WL/druid teams whose druid can keep up the felhunter easily. This means you MUST wait for one ocassion to kill off the pet. I just have faced one team that was able to keep up the pet to the end. - The pet normally goes for your druid, that means, if you pillar kite all the time ( and don`t say it doesn't work in blade's edge, in fact the pillar there is the best^^) you should get an occasion to kill the pet, while you cant Los fears ,cyclones, roots... everything. - Start the match sapping the wl, and blinding the druid when he comes out. If you do it that way, when blind is rdy again you have 10sec (+ sap / cyclone / stun) to kill it. Voidwalker : If they summon the voidwalker, it is normally free win. You should take yourself the time you need to cast 3x lifebloom on your rogue, then you should get to a pillar and start MF/IS -> wrath. I advise you to use roots on the pet if it falls below 60%, this way the warlock can`t call the pet back. -> If their druid comes, you can cyclone him / or his pet three times. It often occurs that the warlock has to distinguish which target he should heal -> wl or pet is dead. | |
 Elruhir | Jun 21, 2008 - 2:17 AM (HideShow) |
| idk maybe i suck but i dont feel like "one of the best counters" considering how much cc they hve on me | |
| Mithos | Jun 22, 2008 - 1:25 PM (HideShow) |
| some good teams will be able to keep the fel hunter up... But you can`t go oom if you use your manareg + S3 feral staff (savagery) and hitting the pet... The pet will die , if your rogue has some lucky critlines and your CC/pillar kite works out | |
| Komorie | Jun 24, 2008 - 10:33 AM (HideShow) |
| problem we face is the massive amount of CC they throw against my rogue | |
  Shatorii | Jul 1, 2008 - 6:48 AM (HideShow) |
| Lol the Lock/Druid must suck pretty die if the pet dies in that short time... And rogue/druid counters Lock/druid is just shitlies. The lock can just spamfear the rogue while his druid is cycloned, and he can also heal the pet... not really a big problem to keep the felhunter up vs this setup. | |
| Evito | Jul 3, 2008 - 11:30 PM (HideShow) |
| A good warlock druid knows hot to keep pet up, and time cc's for letting the druid drink. A ds druid with a feral staff doesnt go oom. Simply the match can get really long, it sucks when your poisons end in the middle of the match >:< | |
| Mithos | Jul 5, 2008 - 5:49 PM (HideShow) |
| Yes, the match WILL go very long. But the rogue druid team has the upper hand. A pet simply will die more easily than the warlock team can down the rogue/your druid. There is simply no one that will actually get oom really, if you use feral staff in MK form rogue/druid can`t get oom. That`s simply it. We had a one hour fight against some 2280 team. In the end we had one critline on the pet -> lead to the win . SOMEHOW there will be a possibility to kill it. LOS and pillars are your friends in this fight | |
| Skynight | Jul 6, 2008 - 11:07 AM (HideShow) |
| you re smart!!! we had really big problems with this setup | |
| Terwinieth | Jul 10, 2008 - 9:34 PM (HideShow) |
| Just a tip. On blade's edge, or that other place, the name escapes me right now, it's got that giant block in the middle, if you get the lock on one side of the map, you can take the pet to the other side, and have it despawn. No more waisting mana, and the lock loses his pet. | |
 Showtime | Jul 14, 2008 - 6:14 PM (HideShow) |
| This is so fucking wrong, you can't beat this combo, there is no way. Pets are almost immune to poisons and even if you get it low the druid heals it easy up. no way no way no way. just had a 1 hours fight and once we had the pet on 1% the lock had already casted a new one... it is impossible to kill that pet... the fel hunter one... immune to poisons... and What if the druid uses trinket on first cyclone? what if the warlock tries to fear?... You need some strange PvE gear, like glaives and so on for killing the pet. If you dont get to kill the pet in start... you can just leave... it's a waste of time. | |
 Jayzee | Jul 14, 2008 - 7:19 PM (HideShow) |
| DS/Rogue wins this fight everytime | |
 Derte | Jul 19, 2008 - 1:48 AM (HideShow) |
| Yeah, a good lock/druid combo makes sure to take care of the pet. In fact I have more problems in my lock/druid combo against rogue/restodruid than dreamstate. DPS teams go down easily to good cc rotations and focus on keeping pets up. A lot of this matchup is dependant on how much spell damage the warlock puts out. If the lock has very high spell damage, the DS druid can't outheal in the long run. If the lock's damage isn't high enough, he's going to burn through his mana, his pet's mana, and his druid's mana for nothing. Then the lifetap cycle begins and the rogue/druid team takes over. Rogues posting here about being cc raped are absolutely right, that's how lock/druid approaches any dps team with a rogue. Despawning the lock's pet, if possible, is the easiest way to do it. Test the warlock out though. Get a cc chain on the druid and start killing that pet. You'll know within about 1.5 seconds if the lock is good or not. ;) If he's not, by all means try to pull that pet into a LoS position and kill it. Truthfully though, the original poster has the right idea. It's not nearly as easy as it's described to kill the pets against a good lock/druid team, but when you do it's pretty much game over. Locks have very little to protect themselves from double-dps when their heals are CC'd, and without soul-link, demonic knowledge and master demonologist buffs up, a lock is left with no additional damage mitigation, and around 200 less spell damage on average. | |
| Hotnrun | Jul 21, 2008 - 11:39 AM (HideShow) |
| The best counter? Are you fucking high? Seriously, there is no way under to sun DS Rog can beat this combo if they can play well... ._. | |
| Beastmode | Jul 24, 2008 - 8:24 AM (HideShow) |
| Maybe I am overlooking something (certainly possible) but every time I fight this combo, they have so much CC to get my rogue off the felhunter that it ends up fighting a losing battle. Against the best lock/rogue teams (top 10, we fought em when they were leveling up) we kill the pet, but the lock is already summoning another one when the rogue makes the switch. I just don't see how to do it. I came up with the same exact strat of sap lock DPS the hell out of the felhunter. But against knowledgable lock/druid the druid will put out heals/abolish then the lock fears, druid roots, and then I have to spam CC's on both lock and druid to stop my rogue from being chained. The real problem for me is that with 2 CC'ers my rogue is going to be hit off the pet, and if we LoS them, then the lock will run across the map and summon a new one anyway. Don't see how to get around this. | |
| Animocity | Jul 27, 2008 - 2:27 PM (HideShow) |
| What do u mean by S3 staff (savagery)? Im guessing its just used to melee pets? | |
| Jackalmastee | Jul 28, 2008 - 1:51 PM (HideShow) |
| I would just like to put my 2 cents in here. First and foremost Mithos plays at a extremly high rating. So I would assume the guy knows what hes talking about. Secondly I have found that doing EXACTLY what he said works very well, notice i put exactly in caps. Its all very dependent on what map you get yes but studying the area's of where you could fight/los the pet to are key. The druid simply cannot heal 2 targets at once if hes oor of 1 of them. Therefore you take advantage of that and make him choose. Also, a rogue shoudl very very rarely be feared. | |
| Polymorphin | Jul 29, 2008 - 7:47 PM (HideShow) |
| if ur having trouble killing pets ur not cc-ing right, yes its hard, yes this team sux ass to play, the last one we played the lock somehow got off a full summon on another felhunter from there it was just an annoyingly long fight ending in a loss. But if u cant kill the pet, that druids gonna go oom fast from healing it, himself and his lock, and from ccing, so be prepared for at least a 10 min fight esp if their druid gets to drink. im still trying to figure this bullshit arena out as dreamstate. WTB lessons. | |
| Lieto | Jul 30, 2008 - 3:07 AM (HideShow) |
| One of the easiest counters? lol. Rogue sap the wlock and open on felhunter. Druid stun+maim rogue. Warlock is out of sap, starting to cast fear. If you cyclone the druid — rogue gets fear, If warlock — rogue gets cyclone. Infact if their druid isnt DS you may just end up with feral charge+bas instead of cyclone. I d say its one of the hardest comps against ds+rogue, Warlock will kite rogue with coex whole game with poisons being cleansed from him, while druid will use roots+cyclone till DR on both of you. | |
| Wraithos | Jul 30, 2008 - 2:24 PM (HideShow) |
| Me and my DS partner can rip the face of a felpup in a few seconds flat from the opening. Sap the warlock, open on pet and it will drop with enough boom. After that the warlock will instant-summon VW (I usually see Voidwalker, rarely felpup) and start draining and trying to lock our druid down, and keep us seperated. We stick to pet for the most part and with just the right usage of cc, (vanish on fears/cyclone and use trinks/wotf) there's nothing they can do to stop the pet dying. After VW dies, it's a home run, just stick to warlock and don't let him summon another pet. Good lock will sometimes run away and resummon pet as your beating on his old one, so it's important to keep a co-ordinated track of the fight. However in some cases should the pet just not be dropping (it happens) We focus on the druid the moment we notice that he's running low on Mana. Blind+sap can seal the game if you can succesfully pull it of on the druid in caster form especially when he's low, though of course a warlock can come to his rescue with howl should you be near. I wouldn't say this Combo is to difficult. It can take some time to crack, but there is room for error, so it's by no means a straining fight. Your druid needs to be wary of being fear/cycloned locked and burned out, notably when there without hots backing them up. | |
| Lieto | Jul 31, 2008 - 3:51 AM (HideShow) |
| ^^ if you feel like that about the fight i d say they are not putting enough pounce> maim> cyclone> cyclone> charge> bash> root> root> cyclone> cyclone on you. Vanish on fears and cyclones is a good guess, but dont forget that you can ONLY vanish if you use clos to remove FF and.. well.. if you use clos you dont need to vanish since you will resist CC anyway. | |
 Thexia | Jul 31, 2008 - 11:10 PM (HideShow) |
| This can't be won by dreamstate\rogue. At best they can not lose and fight forever. Too much CC = rogue does 0 dps | |
| Hotnrun | Aug 1, 2008 - 10:55 AM (HideShow) |
| Indeed. DS/Rogue wins this matchup only at scrub ratings where druid forgets he can CC. | |
| Xrayzor | Aug 2, 2008 - 3:48 PM (HideShow) |
| Its very hard if you are up against a human lock and they get the opener :/ | |
 Mizzle | Aug 2, 2008 - 10:15 PM (HideShow) |
| just played a team where the warlock was wearing a Void Star Talisman. Couldn't keep wound poison applied to the void walker and the druid was healing through all of the damage no problem. Couldn't get a kill on anyone after 30 minutes. I think que dodging is the best option for this team | |
| Showtime | Aug 4, 2008 - 4:19 PM (HideShow) |
| The best way to win this combo is following: You sap the lock, start on pet. Ofc you can't kill the pet... It resissts all wound poison proccs. But the Druid will come out very early. Make your druid cyclone the lock(this happens before sap wears off, and the chance that the lock spell locks the cyclone is kinda low when you cast it right out of stealth and behind him). The rogue switches to the druid, your druid dpses the lock, you vanish/cloak/wotf/line of sight fears. Save your trinket for Nature's Grasp / NS+cyclone. If the enemy Druid get loose, make your druid cyclone him, after that cyclone the lock again so the rogue doesn't struggle so much with avoiding fears. If you fail... after that... just make it a 20mins+ fight and reset all CDs. (lol :p) | |
| Barel | Aug 8, 2008 - 10:53 AM (HideShow) |
| How to counter when they do this on my rogue: Cyclone -> fear -> roots. When my rogue touches the lock again, they repeat. As feedback to this guide, it covers dsdruid+rogue tactics very well, but it needs to cover ,in detail, what the enemy team will do to win over the tactic described in the guide , and how to counter the enemy team tactic. Just saying kill this, cc that isn't always enough. | |
| Kryzitethell | Aug 9, 2008 - 4:12 AM (HideShow) |
| Me and my rogue found that when the druid went to drink was the best time to kill the pet. I keep an insect swarm on the pet at all times so that it can lead up to a pet kill. When the druid goes to drink, lure the pet behind a pillar, put a MF/IS on the pet, root it, and try to toss a cyclone on the lock to prevent fears. considering the lock doesn't trinket, you have a good 7-8 seconds beating on the pet because the druid is out of LOS, good 20-30 yards away. you can get more time by having your rogue save a cloak for a fear if the lock trys to fear, and cyclone the druid on his way back. simple as that folks, works almost every time. | |
| Gladiatôr | Aug 29, 2008 - 12:09 PM (HideShow) |
| ----Potency graph------ Dreamstate druids>resto druids Rogues>Locks Dreamstate druid rogue wins! | |
| Taiyoken | Sep 2, 2008 - 8:10 AM (HideShow) |
| Just played a 1 hour 30 min match yesterday. It took me 46 minutes to kill their enemy druid (I had to reapply poisons, druid followed me, and I got a huge stunlock chain on him). Took another 45 minutes for my druid to kill their lock. Technically, this match could last forever, because as soon as one druid even begins to go low on mana (read: 50% mana), he'll just innervate. I don't even think both druids even drank for the 1 hour and 30 min match. When the lock has a voidwalker, healing is that much easier for the druid cause he's taking a significantly lower amount of damage. | |
| Omonera | Sep 14, 2008 - 3:50 PM (HideShow) |
| The only time we lose against this team, is if the lock/druid have a really good CC rotation.......cyclone and fear and roots do not share DR's so if played well, this team can be REALLY tricky.......we usually stick on the lock, put up expose armor, if you manage to kill the first pet, and he summons a void, its basically insta win for you, since your druid has no problem with resists on cycloning the pet, which means no soul link which mean significant damage increase | |
| Erionn | Sep 28, 2008 - 2:50 AM (HideShow) |
| A really good druid/warlock, if the druid has an innervate staff and the lock has Void Star Talisman, it's virtually impossible. I'm a double 4 piece rogue with warglaives, the felhunter is cake, and soon as the void comes out it's impossible, it resists all my druids spells so it's impossible for him to kill it, and any time it possibly gets low they fear/cyclone and either heal it or just summon a new one. Eventually you'll lose, they'll win the mana war because your druid will never drink, and theirs can whenever they want. | |
| Nekôs | Oct 1, 2008 - 7:42 AM (HideShow) |
| We tried a different approach and worked well for us. Just start as usual, sap the lock, jump on the felhunter if you can't find the druid in stealth. As soon as the druid pop out, blind him while your druid cyclone the lock sapped. At this time the druid should trinket or vanish/sap him to make him trinket. If you put enough pressure on the pet the druid may NS fast. If he does, just sit on the druid who should not be full HOT at this time. If he does not, just make him blow it with pressure. Your druid must assist you as he would do against war/druid (cyclone if you get fear, or to regen energy/wait for KS cooldown, root to make him morph when your KS is up, and try to juke pet's CS). LOS/vanish/gouge/kick fear. Druid should die pretty fast. | |
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