> 3.2.2 patch, Instant Poison weapon swap idea, feedback req :)

[Stealthma]

Speccing Improved Poisons in the specc 44/2/25 and using a weapon swapping macro may increase your burst, but is it worth it?


Explanation


http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...cdQq023,,10482

44/2/25 with a twist; the Improved Poison talent and a weapon swaping macro. Extra interesting if you manage to get your hands on http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/49465/t...utgore-ripper/ I would say.

The idea is to have one setup of weapon with (1.8 speed dagger)wound/(1.4 speed dagger)deadly, one setup with double Instant(1.8 speed both). After the target has 5 stacks of deadly, 5 cps and wound, pool up energy and swap to double instant poison. Dump all of you 130 energy in envenom > mutilate > mutilate > envenom. This is interesting because the first envenom you cast will give you the effect "75% increased frequency of applying Instant Poison for 1 sec plus an additional 1 sec per combo point".



Maths


In envenom > mutilate > mutilate > envenom, you would spend 4 GCD = 4 seconds. After these 4 second you will not have energy to perform more attacks(unless Overkill buff is up), which is why I only calculated the damage improvement under these 4 seconds, even tough the Envenom buff lasts for 6 seconds. Some extra damage from instant poison proccs during the 6 seconds after your burst is only a bonus.

I'm aware that these calculations are a bit simplified. Talents such as priests Spell Warding would lower the poison damage, proccs such as Berserking would increase the damage. These calculations presume a target that has 943 resiliance (10% damage reduction, 10% critical strike chance reduction) so this should give you a somewhat accurate hint of the numbers we are talking about.

Formula: Poison proccs * [poison damage formula] * Vile Poison * Resilience damage reduction



Instant Poison/Instant Poison

Instant PPM = 8.53 (12.80 with 5/5 improved poisons, after envenom 12.8*1.75=22.4)
Instant proccrate with 1.8 weapon speed = 67,2%

With Instant/Instant you will have 4 auto attacks(2 each weapon), 4 swings as a result of mutilate and 2 swings as a result of envenom = 10 swings total. 10 * 67.2% = 6.72 poison proccs on avarage with double Instant Poison.

6,72 * (245 + 0.10 * AP) * 1.3 * 0.9

With the current AP of my character unbuffed, 3854, and a crit chance of 33% - 10%(resil) that equals an average damage of: 6666,43 from instant poison alone.



Wound Poison/Deadly Poison

Wound PPM = 21.43
Wound proccrate with 1.8 weapon speed = 64,29%

With wound/deadly you would have 2 auto attacks, 2 swings as a result of mutilate and 2 swings as a result of envenom = 6 swings total. 6 * 64.29% = 3,86 poison proccs on avarage with single Wound Poison.

3,86 * (231 + 0.04 * AP) * 1.3 * 0,9

And with my stats again the average damage would be: 1998,22 from Wound Poison alone.



Conclusion


With my current gear the difference in poison damage on average would be: 6666,43 - 1998,22 = 4668,21 damage, unmitigated from armor.

The better stats you have, the more damage increase you would get. This spec would probably work best in a RMP or cleave, that relies on heavy burst.

Pros: Damage

Cons: Requires some setup and 4 weapons. Possibility of wound poison getting dispelled during the 4 seconds of burst, but 5 stacks of deadly poison with 30% dispell resist makes it unlikely.



Macros


Due to people asking me in PMs what macros I use I figured its probably best to write them here.

Envenom macro, swapping to double Instant
#showtooltip envenom
/equipslot 17 Furious Gladiator's Mutilator
/equipslot 16 Relentless Gladiator's Shanker
/cast envenom

Each time you use envenom with this build you want to swap to instant poison, therefore I made this macro so you wouldn't have to bind a new key. You will have to cast this macro twice, since the first time it will only equip the daggers and the following times you cast the macro it will cast envenom.


Shiv macro, swapping to Wound/Deadly
#showtooltip shiv
/equipslot 17 murder
/equipslot 16 Furious Gladiator's Shanker
/cast shiv

Since shiv shouldn't be used while you have double Instant Poison theres no reason not to use this macro. Same as with the Envenom macro, first time you equip the daggers and after that you cast Shiv. That means that you can use this macro even if you only want to swap weapons, since Shiv won't be cast the first time. (And yeah, I know, Murder sucks :P. I'm going to use it until I get the points to buy relentless 1.4 OH since I only have three good daggers atm.)


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Sorry for the wall of text, tried to create a decent layout so that you can read the post without severe brain damage. Also I wan't to point out that I'm not an awesome theorycrafter, so if you find anything in the maths that doesn't add up, please tell me. English isn't my first language, so my grammar and spelling is probably wrong here and there.

[Stealthma]

Have been playing around with this spec for 2 hours in arena. Playing vs. plate targets is awesome, finally i feel that my burst matters, not just my mages. But, relying on deadly poison somewhat feels like it limits my ability to swap targets.

Anyway, please give me your thoughts on this spec, since i would really like to know what more experienced rogues think .

[Lieto]

what i realized with playing that is i actually like deadly poison. 5 stacks does 1300 dmg on its own. However... it is easily droped even when you are on target 24/7.

Another thing is that envenom never crits (i dunno why, but for me it critted like once out of dozen times is it spell crit modifier?) anyway it hits for 3500-3900 and crits for 7500-8000. Looks solid but you need to actually use cb for it to crit.

[Stealthma]

While I agree with what you say I would like to focus on the Improved Poisons part of this specc, since there already is a big thread discussing Master Poisoner and its pros and cons. Did you actually specc Improved Poison?

Maybe i should clarify myself in a TLDR:

For all I know most rogues agree that steady dps in a comp as RMP is not our primary objective. It is all about the burst. Therefor, do you think speccing into Improved Poisons and swapping to weapons with Instant Poison is an interesting idea? Do you think the talent points should be spent elsewhere?

[Inris]

Why don't you have Murder? It's far better than most other talents you took.

[Stealthma]

The only "optional points" I see in this specc is Improved Poison and Improved Kidney Shot. I've been thinking about dropping Kidney for Murder, but I'm not sure yet. Improved Poison is what I'm testing right now so I'm obviously not gonna drop that ;P.

Edit:

Another obvious drawback using this specc is that you won't use Kidney Shot as the first attack in your burst, leaving the target free to do what it wants. In RMP, that is the only point of view I have so far, this is pretty bad vs some targets. For example Warriors, Druids and Rogues. So vs these targets I usually start my burst with a Kidney Shot anyway, then swapping to double instant and continue to burst as usual, still with an increase to my burst compared to Wound/Deadly. Another way to do it is to Vanish > Cheap Shot > Envenom > Mutilate > Mutilate > Kidney Shot, or vs Warriors Disarm > Envenom > Mutilate > Mutilate > Kidney/Envenom depending on the situation.