> BM change response (blog) - What do you think?

[Levidia]

Before we get this underway understand one thing. I do think the BM tree needs revamped and I'm definitely not convinced the current and or nerfed version of the tree is anywhere near as cool or complex or developed as the tree can and should be. With that said we're going to explore the new BWrath change and how it's going to affect the "go to" spec when we don't feel like dying inside the first stun that lands (ala MM).

Knee jerking blizzard development. They only tap the hammer when RMP is threatened.

Yea that's a troll bait section title deal with it. It's obvious to anyone that follows wow evolution that the new change has to do with 2 rather specific things. There is a comp that has a high success rate vs RMP and it involves a hunter.

RMP while having much of it's success related strictly to the awesome synergy and support the 3 classes provide each other it also seems to be an almost protected species in regards to blizzard development. That's fine I guess as it's been a long standing pinnacle of arena PvP and they do occasionally put it in check when it gets too retarded but we're still seeing tournaments with 80% RMP so.... you draw your own conclusions.

Now that I'm done ranting lets talk about BM.

The BM spec revolves around one thing, hoping you kill someone or force enough cool downs that your weak ass utterly crippled (w.o BWrath) spec can finish someone off after you calm down. When you're fighting top notch teams that know how to combat enrage with disarms/los/defensive CD rotations etc they can normally out last the entire 18 seconds of bestial wrath and we know this is true because we've seen it happen likely in practice and as a stream viewer.

One thing to understand about the new change is that for those 10 seconds a BM hunter will be doing everything they did before WITH a bonus 10% damage. You'll be getting hit harder than you ever did before and you'll have to deal with it in the same ways you did before.

Here is where one of many problems lie however... The 10 second duration and the FACT that a BM hunter is the WORST most ineffective arena spec in the game when the hunter/pet aren't enraged. All the specs eggs are largely in one basket and if you aren't able to take advantage of that IE forcing that ice block or forcing that pain suppression/BOP, etc you're going to likely lose the fight during the counter offensive that happens when you're no longer able to keep up that oppressive offensive damage.

A Disarm/Dismantle during BWrath now will leave the hunter with a mere 5 seconds of total wrath action to try and get something accomplished. This isn't going to fly and anyone that knows anything about how the spec operates in the arena however face roll it may be will completely die off as an arena spec. Ming seems optimistic that the comp will still be good and of course he will say that as this change benefits the rogue class as much if not more than any other class in the arena scene.

In other words congratulations blizzard your change does nothing except wipe the spec off the arena radar. We're now going to be forced MM or SV (which is fine if they're tuned correctly).

Levidia what should have happened to bestial Wrath?

Well, since you asked I guess I'll weigh in. What SHOULD have happened is the tree should have been revamped a long time ago to raise its complexity but since that didn't happen will have to tinker with what we have available.

Bestial Wrath is both an offensive and defensive ability as it can be used to up offensive pressure or used defensively to allow freedom of movement and CC immunity to allow the hunter to LOS and or kite melee.

The simplest change I could think of that would both accomplish some goals while making the spec a little less 1 trick pony would be halving the duration of BWrath and also halving the cool down.

What this would essentially do is allow the hunter more opportunities to utilize Wrath but also make them less punishing each time it's used. A 9 second duration Wrath would allow things like Disarm/Dismantle to significantly punish the up time and defensive abilities such as IB,DS,Pain Sup,BOP etc would be able to ride out the duration if the caster/team deemed it necessary to do so.

There would be more of a push and pull relationship with BM hunters and their opponents and there would be more opportunities for offensive switching and or defensive Wrath use. A hunter would utilize the ability to push and if that push failed to produce a kill the hunter would be on the defensive until he was able to try the target again or try another target w/o having to wait a minute to do so. The ability would work in the same way other abilities work in regards to dictating switches etc. Ret's switching on hammer timer, or rogues switching on KS timer etc.

Here is the break down of the proposed change.

Bwrath 1 minute base CD.
Glyph changed to - 10 seconds
60 seconds X . 3 = 42 second duration - 10 seconds = 32 second CD 9 second duration fully talented/glyphed.

The catch....

The catch to this is that blizzards 10% full time damage augment was stuck on there to boost BM in PvE to help it catch up to the other trees. How are we going to accomplish this design goal when the CD/Duration is just being cut in half?

Blizzards ret changes inspired this portion of the corrected changes and I think we could adapt that style of design to boost BMs damage in PvE w/o totally slaughtering the PvP side of the situation.

My solution would be to add a stacking damage vulnerability (physical based) to a BM pets attacks that has a 1 second hidden CD and stacks 5X @ 2% damage each time totaling 10%. This would be applied to the hunters damage or the pets damage whatever is deemed most appropriate. This would force the hunters pet to engage a target for at least 5 seconds before it/or the hunter got the full damage modification. I'll leave naming the debuff to someone else but it would work on the idea (lol inc role playing) that a hunter and or his pet would become stronger against a target when they're cooperating with each other and attacking together.

Summation of total suggested changes.

Bwrath reduced to 1 minute CD (from 2 minutes)
Bwrath duration reduced to 9 seconds (from 1
Bwrath glyph reduced to 10 second CD reduction (from 20)

Hunter pets stack a 5/5 debuff when they attack (with any source) that has a 1 second hidden CD and stacks from a 1/5 2% damage modifier to a 5/5 10% damage modifier applied to the hunter.

Goals accomplished:
-PvE damage modified person blizzard design goals with a weakened aspect to PvP where the benefit would not be instantly received.

-Bwraths 18 second oppressive was cut down to a more manageable time allowing defensive cool downs to be more effective against it.

-BM while still face roll has more decisions to make in regards to how it will use Bwrath due to increased opportunities during a match despite the decreased duration.(Defensive to survive a switch or offensive to pressure for a kill, etc)

Have a good day everyone.

[Trïkso]

Basically Blizz wants BW to be something like a killing spree, a CD you pop when you have a good chance of killing someone, not something you pop as soon as the gates open.

[Levidia]

Originally Posted by Trikso

Basically Blizz wants BW to be something like a killing spree, a CD you pop when you have a good chance of killing someone, not something you pop as soon as the gates open.

My changes still has that goal in mind. The problem is until you use it you're the worst spec in the game and you're either going to be forced to use it when you're attacked or forced to use it to try to up your offensive pressure based on your team getting forced defensive.

Having BM more available allows you to utilize it to switch/force a CD etc more often while accomplishing the design goal of eliminating how long the offensive pressure is initially if you burn it off the bat.

[Fragilityx]

/facepalm @ Blizzard.

Damnit Lev, why aren't you the hunter class dev yet?

[Levidia]

Originally Posted by Xaeroflex

/facepalm @ Blizzard.

Damnit Lev, why aren't you the hunter class dev yet?

I've never filled out an application.
They don't have an opening.
I don't have previous game design experience (from an employment standpoint)
Any design positions would have a shit ton of applicants.

I could do it obviously and I'm sure I would do it well but that doesn't mean anything in regards to actually holding a position.
So, I'll keep blogging as long as I'm playing this game and trying to get on the beta tests (which is about as close as a player can get to being a dev, we actually got a TON of shit done during the wotlk beta in regards to helping the class evolve and catch up)

[Dagín]

Originally Posted by Levidian

I've never filled out an application.
They don't have an opening.
I don't have previous game design experience (from an employment standpoint)
Any design positions would have a shit ton of applicants.

I could do it obviously and I'm sure I would do it well but that doesn't mean anything in regards to actually holding a position.
So, I'll keep blogging as long as I'm playing this game and trying to get on the beta tests (which is about as close as a player can get to being a dev, we actually got a TON of shit done during the wotlk beta in regards to helping the class evolve and catch up)

The bold part neither does GC from what I read . He was a biologist or something.

[Levidia]

Originally Posted by Dagin

The bold part neither does GC from what I read . He was a biologist or something.

Yea of the marine variety IIRC.

One thing that has both positives and negatives about being a designer focused on a specific class is I personally think you should play that class A LOT as your main and have an intimate knowledge of the class from a first hand standpoint. The down sides is you may have some bias towards that class BUT at the same time as long as decisions are round tabled the other members of the class design team are there to call you out when bias might be getting in the way of intelligent design. The positives far outweigh any negatives and it's why is wish there was someone that could play a hunter play it well and that we could have some back and fourth with inside blizzard.

[Ainia]

Jesus, levidia nails it spot-on once more

[Fetalol]

It funny Levida that people call you bias and w/e. I think your one of the few people on this forum that actually posts constructive changes. Most are just like Afflix and want his or her class to be godmode at all times.

[Levidia]

Originally Posted by Parmesan

It funny Levida that people call you bias and w/e. I think your one of the few people on this forum that actually posts constructive changes. Most are just like Afflix and want his or her class to be godmode at all times.

Thanks man, there is always going to be some bias even if it's on the subconscious level but I try my best to make suggestions that take as much into consideration as possible and always try to accomplish multiples goals while keeping many factors in mind including.

Balance
Lore(RP)
Smoothness of play
Class/Spec complexity
Indirect impact