> We will never get a decent healthcare bill through congress.

[Calpurnìa]

Originally Posted by Disstance

I'll get to the other stuff in a bit, but this is verifiably false. Taxes are the main reason why California is in such shitty shape http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-b...ss-raise-taxes

"Thirty years ago, Californians passed Proposition 13, mandating an almost unachievable two-thirds vote by the legislature to raise taxes."





Uhm, the Bush administration put us in Afghanistan and he's not 'ignoring' orders, he's considering several different options from several different sources. I don't think this is a fair complaint at all. I personally feel like we have no business being there in the first place.




I don't think you have any basis for believing this, and the DMV comparison makes zero sense to me. Under the public option you can still get health insurance through employement, in fact that number is expected to go up if the public option went through, it would simply give healthcare to people who can't currently afford it as well.

California is fucked up in many ways, but the welfare certainly doesn't contribute. I'd go into many examples of my own personal experiences, given the fact that I spent my college career near the "ghettos" of Los Angeles, but I do not have time.

Bush is gone, it doesn't matter who got us there at this point, you can't change the past. I wouldn't be there, or Iraq, either, but that was not our decision to make. It matters when and how we are going to leave, that is the present and future. A man who has no military experience should listen to those whose job it is to protect this country, and those who have experience in militaristic strategy. That includes General McChrystal and Robert Gates. Perhaps you're fine with him sitting on the decision, but not at the wasteful expense of lives. If he can't "consider" a strategy any faster, we need to just pull out. I don't think victory is an option in Afghanistan anyways, we are fighting an ideology and not a natural enemy.

The DMV comparison makes zero sense to you because you have no experience with a government run healthcare system. Do some research on the issues with Tricare, and get back to me. There's no indication any public option would be run differently.

I believe you're misunderstanding me here. I want something to take care of our citizens as well, it's just that I'm not as trusting towards what the liberals want as you are. I can say the same about the conservatives though.

[Disstance]

Medicare is the government run healthcare program for seniors and members of the government and it works great. THe public option is supposed to work like that system. The comparison to the DMV has no basis, imo.

And I don't get what you mean by your last sentence. It's not that I trust the liberals in government more than the republicans, it's just that the liberals actively want healthcare reform, while the conservatives don't.

[Snerp]

Originally Posted by Disstance

it's just that the liberals actively want healthcare reform, while the conservatives don't.

This isn't true at all. Nearly every republican in congress is in favor of some form of healthcare reform.

[Disstance]

They just don't want people who can't afford healthcare to have access to it.

[Snerp]

Wait, you just said they don't want healthcare reform. Now they do, but you've gone back to the tired argument that republicans hate poor people?

Its more like they want to drive down costs, increase competition, reform some shady insurance practices like the determination of pre-existing conditions, tort reform, improve doctor-patient relationships and provide incentives for healthier lifestyles all while preserving freedom of choice. They are lofty goals for sure; but no more lofty than implementing a government run plan.

We also can't ignore the ridiculous costs of the proposed bills. Keep in mind we can't ignore the debt and spend ourselves into a currency collapse. Our corporate tax rates are already among the highest in the world. In the financial world its pretty widely acknowledged that lowering corporate tax rates to rates comparable to most other countries would INCREASE tax revenues collected by our gov. The current corporate rate of 35% is prohibitively high, so much so that corporations are encouraged to move more operations overseas and pay foreign tax rates, which are much lower. However, that money remains in these foreign subsidiaries unless repatriated or closing of said subsidiary. Why would any company bring those profits back to the U.S. and pay 35% when they can pay 20-30%? This is beyond the average congressman though.

Not that you would concern yourself with such things.

If every working U.S. citizen were able to afford a decent health insurance plan for his/her family without government assistance, wouldn't that be preferable to a government administered option?

[Pharaunmizz]

Originally Posted by Shifting

Somwhat OT but I just found this: http://www.slate.com/id/2234008/ Found it quite funny. (politics facebook style)

Ah man thanks for making my day

[Disstance]

Tldr: i want to improve healthcare for the corporations, the insurance companies and the people who can already afford quality healthcare.

If every working U.S. citizen were able to afford a decent health insurance plan for his/her family without government assistance, wouldn't that be preferable to a government administered option?

Obviously not. What if someone loses their job? Even if you assume the possibility exists that health insurance can be cheap enough that any minnimum wage family can afford (good luck), I still believe FREE healthcare should be a right that everyone in the United States deserves. I think looking at the busness of insurance companies on the same level priority as millions of americans not having healthcare is terrible.

[Disstance]

Originally Posted by Meeper

In the financial world its pretty widely acknowledged that lowering corporate tax rates to rates comparable to most other countries would INCREASE tax revenues collected by our gov.

uh what

[Disstance]

I think the biggest problem with politicians today is every single decision is first run through a god damn corporate x-ray machine to make sure it wont hurt big companies in any way.

[Ursidae]

Claude