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This interview is interesting as GC also comments on PvP and adresses some of the issues that were discussed on the AJ boards.

MMO-Champion posted a sum-up of the PvP questions:
  • PvP will never be perfectly balanced, but it can be balanced enough to be fun and fair. The balance in Mists of Pandaria still has some tweaking to do before it is at that point.
  • Hybrids could see some PvP power going towards their off role damage or healing. It is okay for a DPS to throw out a few heals, but not okay if they are as good as a healer for their team.
  • It is possible that base resilience could be increased to compensate for the PvP Power increase on Conquest weapons, but they need more than a few days of observation before a decision can be made.
  • We may see some changes in the future to make things better for people who PvP on multiple characters, as far as earning Conquest Points goes.
  • Many of the changes in Patch 5.1 were to address issues of PvP balance, and most didn't have a big impact on PvE.
Link to the video
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#1 Pawzz

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:59 AM

View PostWildeHilde, on 05 December 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

  • It is possible that base resilience could be increased to compensate for the PvP Power increase on Conquest weapons, but they need more than a few days of observation before a decision can be made.
Yeah 2 months of top pvpers telling you damage is too high isn't enough, take your time man, its npnp.

View PostWildeHilde, on 05 December 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

  • Many of the changes in Patch 5.1 were to address issues of PvP balance, and most didn't have a big impact on PvE.

How do you manage to apply changes and not change anything...

#2 Eltekk

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:20 PM

GC actually seems to know what hes talking about regarding PvP tbh.

#3 Claynz

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:24 PM

"It is possible that base resilience could be increased to compensate for the PvP Power increase on Conquest weapons, but they need more than a few days of observation before a decision can be made."

increase it by 10-15% imo so its like pre 5.1


#4 Pawzz

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:26 PM

View PostClaynz, on 05 December 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

"It is possible that base resilience could be increased to compensate for the PvP Power increase on Conquest weapons, but they need more than a few days of observation before a decision can be made."

increase it by 15% imo


He just wants to compensate the weapon upgrades, if he does, we are back at MoP release... I dont get why they dont just make a tournament realm and tweak around there, every week. Increase res by 50%, reduce it by 20% again, see how it works, then reduce healing by 30% etc etc

#5 idevpro

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:27 PM

They seem to be making changes to the game without addressing the consequences, like the item upgrade thing / alts, now they think about it?

Still i am happy for the classes fixes/hotfixes they made.. looking forward to Powershot fix, jk never gonna happen.
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#6 Equalwin

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:36 PM

they said they may try to fix it in 5.2 ( they said it's kinda a hard bug to fix)

#7 Braindance

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:07 PM

View PostPawzz, on 05 December 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

Yeah 2 months of top pvpers telling you damage is too high isn't enough, take your time man, its npnp.



How do you manage to apply changes and not change anything...
The damage is fine - it is cds that make it too powerful. The solution is simple but hard to implement - just make some cds mutually exclusive (eg avatar, recklessness etc). The other thing would be adding crit reduction to resilience which would affect high critting classes (mages, warriors, destro locks etc) the most, but have a lesser effect on classes that don't crit for ludicrous amounts.

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#8 Pawzz

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:32 PM

View PostBraindance, on 05 December 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

The damage is fine - it is cds that make it too powerful. The solution is simple but hard to implement - just make some cds mutually exclusive (eg avatar, recklessness etc). The other thing would be adding crit reduction to resilience which would affect high critting classes (mages, warriors, destro locks etc) the most, but have a lesser effect on classes that don't crit for ludicrous amounts.

Frostmages dont really need cds to crit for 200k in a shatter? dno about desto locks, ferals have insane cds but can still randomly crit you with fb anytime.

#9 Braindance

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:37 PM

View PostPawzz, on 05 December 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

Frostmages dont really need cds to crit for 200k in a shatter? dno about desto locks, ferals have insane cds but can still randomly crit you with fb anytime.
Random big crits should be in the game and should happen once in a while (like an 100k crit every 1 min). The problem is that they happen to often for warriors during cds, frost bombs and ferals. The solution for warriors cd as I said before is quite simple, but I'm not  quite sure how frost bomb could be fixed (and lances do a bit more dmg than they should). For me, the current design is more than fine and the problem lies mostly on cd stacking and certain abilities (chaos bolt, frost bomb etc - I'm not including TfB because it's hitting for as much as it should hit, meaning it doesn't oneshot anymore and it does high but not overpowered damage).

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#10 alleaya

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:01 PM

tbh tbf still should not be critting for 150k, your defending it due to being a warrior.
Its very rng i agree but very game breaking.

#11 Braindance

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:43 PM

View Postalleaya, on 05 December 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

tbh tbf still should not be critting for 150k, your defending it due to being a warrior.
Its very rng i agree but very game breaking.

I don't defend stuff "because I'm a warrior" and I have never done that. In contrast to 99.99999% percent of this community, I am completely unbiased when it comes to balance (feel free to check all my posts for proof). What I am merely saying, is that high crits once in a while (100k-120k) should be in the game, because otherwise games would never end. One crit for 1/3 of a health pool every minute (something every class should have, assuming you cannot chain such crits) is OK.

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#12 Claynz

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:57 PM

View PostPawzz, on 05 December 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

He just wants to compensate the weapon upgrades, if he does, we are back at MoP release... I dont get why they dont just make a tournament realm and tweak around there, every week. Increase res by 50%, reduce it by 20% again, see how it works, then reduce healing by 30% etc etc


We wont be back on MoP release, healing is still reduced, Warriors/Spriest/Frostmage will do less damage compared to survival, Demon Warlocks are nerfed, and it will help discpriest a lot and not to mention stampede nerf and resto shamans being killable.   You forget the class changes that came with 5.1

#13 Artunias

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:09 PM

Honestly, I thought he said a lot of pretty decent stuff regarding PvP. They are just slow to implement things. A tourny realm where they can constantly modify things would be a great idea I think. So they can just throw it out there and see how it goes.

#14 Pawzz

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:09 PM

View PostClaynz, on 05 December 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

We wont be back on MoP release, healing is still reduced, Warriors/Spriest/Frostmage will do less damage compared to survival, Demon Warlocks are nerfed, and it will help discpriest a lot and not to mention stampede nerf and resto shamans being killable.   You forget the class changes that came with 5.1

Let's hope your right,

May GOPE be with us

#15 Pawzz

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:10 PM

View PostArtunias, on 05 December 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

Honestly, I thought he said a lot of pretty decent stuff regarding PvP. They are just slow to implement things. A tourny realm where they can constantly modify things would be a great idea I think. So they can just throw it out there and see how it goes.

Ye, like a PTR for PvP, before they implement pvp changes

#16 Regent

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:07 AM

My favorite part:

GC: People were complaining that damage was too high, so we nerfed the damage a bit and then put pvp power on weapons and allowed the to be upgraded which actually made people do more damage than before.

Yeah...

#17 Pride7

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:40 AM

View PostBraindance, on 05 December 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

Random big crits should be in the game and should happen once in a while (like an 100k crit every 1 min). The problem is that they happen to often for warriors during cds, frost bombs and ferals. The solution for warriors cd as I said before is quite simple, but I'm not  quite sure how frost bomb could be fixed (and lances do a bit more dmg than they should). For me, the current design is more than fine and the problem lies mostly on cd stacking and certain abilities (chaos bolt, frost bomb etc - I'm not including TfB because it's hitting for as much as it should hit, meaning it doesn't oneshot anymore and it does high but not overpowered damage).

This is going to seem like a flame, only because I'm quite opinionated.

How, in any way are critical strikes good to the game?  RNG is the worst thing to ever be implemented in a game being played competitively.  Why?  Because there is nothing either player does to make it happen.  Player A crits player B for 300k.  Player A did literally nothing but press the same button he was going to press, regardless of the outcome, and player b just gets smack in the face by something that did 2x the damage it normally does, based PURELY on chance.  It literally sucks the skill out of games every time it happens.  There is already TONS of luck involved in games (build orders, lag, slight micro mistakes that could be optimized, .

Lets take some of the biggest, most popular esports in history.  What if in 1.6/css, 1/10 shots just did head shot damage, even if they hit the foot?  What if marines/zerglings/zealots had a 1/20 chance to do double damage?  3/3 cracklings would literally destroy things en mass, chargelots would be both tanky and with their 2 attacks each time would randomly one shot light units, and marines when stimmed would just randomly mow down armies.  What if 10% of the time, your abilities just didn't do anything in world of warcraft?  What if 1/20 spells in dota hit for 2x?  Lina just one shotting people for 1800 at level 16 with a 50 second cd (1/20 tries of course).

Get that shit out of games, and do not advocate it.  It is only cool to the casual that sees someone get one shot.  And thats it.  Nobody wants to see RNG.  Its disgusting.  What if 5% of the passes just didn't count in the NFL, arbitrarily?  Yes, you could minimize their effect, but think about historical problems with WoW, just a few:

1. WotLK frost mage r1 frost bolt- although it was good for chill etc, it was used to get procs.  What did those procs do?  Instant ffbs, deeps and damage, but considerably increases damage.

2. Tfb- randomly overpower for chain stacks to one shot somebody

3. Priest MD spam for bubble dispel- sometimes pally dies instantly or sometimes lives and the rmp is left with no/little cds after going all in.

The list goes on.  Yes, you could dispel the mage procs etc, but they are examples of other rng that was added in, that are still bad for the game.  Get that shit out, please.  No real competitive game has RNG that I can think of.  One exception would be dota, which has crit added in, but its an item (minus PA) and requires farm to pick up, and its not crazy out of control until you slap on an extra 3600.  At which point, I would argue that numerous opportunities have occurred to slow that carry's farm.  Not just some garbage rng tfb one shot shit that randomly occurred.

#18 Braindance

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:50 AM

View PostPride7, on 06 December 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

This is going to seem like a flame, only because I'm quite opinionated.

How, in any way are critical strikes good to the game?  RNG is the worst thing to ever be implemented in a game being played competitively.  Why?  Because there is nothing either player does to make it happen.  Player A crits player B for 300k.  Player A did literally nothing but press the same button he was going to press, regardless of the outcome, and player b just gets smack in the face by something that did 2x the damage it normally does, based PURELY on chance.  It literally sucks the skill out of games every time it happens.  There is already TONS of luck involved in games (build orders, lag, slight micro mistakes that could be optimized, .

Lets take some of the biggest, most popular esports in history.  What if in 1.6/css, 1/10 shots just did head shot damage, even if they hit the foot?  What if marines/zerglings/zealots had a 1/20 chance to do double damage?  3/3 cracklings would literally destroy things en mass, chargelots would be both tanky and with their 2 attacks each time would randomly one shot light units, and marines when stimmed would just randomly mow down armies.  What if 10% of the time, your abilities just didn't do anything in world of warcraft?  What if 1/20 spells in dota hit for 2x?  Lina just one shotting people for 1800 at level 16 with a 50 second cd (1/20 tries of course).

Get that shit out of games, and do not advocate it.  It is only cool to the casual that sees someone get one shot.  And thats it.  Nobody wants to see RNG.  Its disgusting.  What if 5% of the passes just didn't count in the NFL, arbitrarily?  Yes, you could minimize their effect, but think about historical problems with WoW, just a few:

1. WotLK frost mage r1 frost bolt- although it was good for chill etc, it was used to get procs.  What did those procs do?  Instant ffbs, deeps and damage, but considerably increases damage.

2. Tfb- randomly overpower for chain stacks to one shot somebody

3. Priest MD spam for bubble dispel- sometimes pally dies instantly or sometimes lives and the rmp is left with no/little cds after going all in.

The list goes on.  Yes, you could dispel the mage procs etc, but they are examples of other rng that was added in, that are still bad for the game.  Get that shit out, please.  No real competitive game has RNG that I can think of.  One exception would be dota, which has crit added in, but its an item (minus PA) and requires farm to pick up, and its not crazy out of control until you slap on an extra 3600.  At which point, I would argue that numerous opportunities have occurred to slow that carry's farm.  Not just some garbage rng tfb one shot shit that randomly occurred.
Your response is not a flame. RNG is good up to an extent, because WoW has nothing to do with all these games. At starcraft, warcraft or dota you start from 0 and slowly build up. In WoW you don't. And since you mentioned dota specifically you can outpick the other team so hard that they stand no chance (vs equally good players). If you want an environment where you can predict everything, and all the game is linear, sure then, remove crit. Btw I am mostly referring to crits, not things like failed MD's when dispelling bubbles etc

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#19 fant0m8

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:37 AM

View PostArtunias, on 05 December 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

Honestly, I thought he said a lot of pretty decent stuff regarding PvP. They are just slow to implement things. A tourny realm where they can constantly modify things would be a great idea I think. So they can just throw it out there and see how it goes.

Blizzard has been *saying* "decent stuff regarding PVP" for literally years. They *always* go back to slow/no updates or break the shit out of their own balance 2 patches later.

Hell, they've been *saying* this stuff since Arena launched in TBC! They always fail to deliver.

Don't trust words, look at actions.
Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#20 Twocat

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:33 AM

What the hell is the point of adding additional PvP power if you're just going to up resil? Yes, let's keep making the gear gap even bigger, it isn't hard enough to start mid season yet.
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