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We just got the scoop on another exciting World of Warcraft 3v3 Arena Tournament coming up: the Raid Call World of Warcraft Invitational. It's being hosted by Evil Geniuses, no stranger to e-sports and the sponsor of players such as Azael, Cdew, Talbadar and Woundman, and we're happy to see them give back to the community by hosting this tournament.

The team list is being kept under wraps for now, but we've heard rumors of a star studded lineup. So you will want to make sure and head to their stream page and click that follow link. Mark the date and time on your calendar, and consider showing up earlier for a special treat as well!

Prizing:
  • $2000 is up for grabs between the top three teams!
Schedule:
  • Aug 10-12, 3 PM EDT (12 PM PDT, 8 PM London Time)
Casters:
  • Isaac "EG.Azael" Cummings-Bentley.
  • Alexander "Conradical" Hall
Where: To find out more go to http://raidwow.evilgeniuses.net a bit later today.
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#1 Itsnel

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 11:37 PM

View Postxaxses, on 10 August 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

although i dont want to blame & flame anyone but 1) it isnt really fun to watch that rls (maybe due to inactivity of the players, at least in competitive kinds of playing) and 2) the phd performs so bad honestly i dont want to sound arrogant but there are many phds in europe much stronger than this

nevertheless, the Cams and both Conrad and Azeal @ gamescom are total amazing!

anyway good luck and hoping to see more interessting matches soon!

edit: /vote for more mirror matches in turnies!

you barely hit 1900 on TR, wintraded on live from 238x to 2504, yea we all want to see you performing on a tournament

#2 moojerk

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 11:50 PM

I've seen multiple people say that DDoS is the wrong term, but those people are just as uninformed. DoS is denial of service (duh).  DDoS is distributed denial of service, meaning the method of DoS is accomplished by attacking with multiple resources (multiple machines), and the people complaining that it's not DDoS have no idea what they're talking about because unless they are the ones who are either doing the attacking or have personally looked at a capture or logs of the person attacked, they have no idea if it's being done using a distributed method or not.

So DDoS or DoS is fine.  Sure "technically" we don't know the method being used is distributed, but these days it's likely since it's easy for script kiddies to do distributed attacks.  And I'd wager most ISP's would see an outgoing DoS attack coming from one of their users and would probably flag the account and block the traffic.

Lastly, who the hell cares.

#3 moojerk

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 11:57 PM

View PostAzaelz, on 11 August 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

Not really sure what you expect us to say at this point, every match is a d/c due to DOS basically.  If there's a small issue here and there like there has been in other tournaments I 100% agree that it's pointless to mention but are we really expected to just say "Oh hey look another d/c!!!" 15 times in a row, and just spam restart the games, or even worse pretend they were legit and count them?

We have no content to provide because every team is just getting constantly disconnected so there's literally zero we can do about delays.  It's a sad state of affairs but there's literally nothing we can do on our end, it's totally up to the individuals to stop themselves from getting DOSed, and all it takes is one person making a mistake, or intentionally leaking Skype names to ruin a tournament completely even with all the proper preparation.  I put a ton of time into organizing the tournament, making sure everyone understood all the precautions they would have to take in order to avoid DOS attacks just because I wanted to run a professional / smooth tournament for the community.

I can tell you I'm making zero money from running this tournament even with all the time I put in, because I wanted to give something back to the community and hopefully create a successful tournament series that could go onward into MoP.  Unfortunately it's impossible to justify putting in the time, and getting prize money from sponsors etc if this is how the community will react to a tournament (even if it's just a handful of people).  The Twitch chat is also very disappointing, simply because we're being blamed for something completely out of our control and players are being bashed on for "fake" d/c'ing as their net connections constantly go down, etc.

The community as a whole needs to grow up.

I for one am grateful for the tournament you guys have put up, even with the problems.  I think we need more tournaments, and hope to see more in the future.  I'd even be willing to help fund one myself once MOP comes out.  I thank you and the others for putting the tournament up.  I tried raidcall and so far I like it.  I hope that in the future, players using raidcall instead of skype will help alleviate people from getting players IPs in order to mess with them.

#4 Starcookie

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 12:11 AM

You're fairly fucked if you can't change your IP, you either need to use a mobile internet connection, borrow somebody else's, go to another house or forfeit.

If you're in a tournament and you can change your IP, follow the below TO THE LETTER and you're guaranteed safe:

Create a 2nd Skype, that only has your team mates 2nd skype on it, that you only log during the tournament once you have changed your IP. In addition to this, don't be in the stream chat. This will only work if all 3 of you create the new Skypes, otherwise you can just "view contact list" of the old contacts.

Quite simply if you're a player and you're getting DDOS'd in a tournament, it is YOUR TEAM'S FAULT. As Hood said, it means that one of you, if not more than one, has not changed Skype for the tournament, so the DDOSer is just grabbing your new login information from their contact list, even if they do not have YOU added.

If all 3 of you are not on a new skype, with just the 3 of you added, you might as well not bother having anyone on a new Skype and unplug the internet yourself.

All 3 of you on a new account that ONLY has those 3 accounts added and then change IP - Problem sorted.

Alternatively, get a VPN and then change your IP. Whilst I was streaming, there was not 1 single successful DDOS attack on my connection, despite getting multiple email alerts that there had been attempts.

It actually pisses me off how stupid and ignorant some of you are going into these tournaments. If it was me setting the rules, I would quite simply make every DDOS against your team count as a loss to FORCE you to fix your shit. There is simply no excuse, you have so much time to prepare - Setting up a new skype takes all of 2 minutes. Adding each other's new skype takes less. Less than 5 minutes work to ensure you can't get DDOS'd, yet one or two from each team being DDOS'd still don't do it. It's beyond me. How hard can it be for all 3 of you to log off Skype, reset your IP, all 3 of you log your new Skype and to not be logged in at Twitch.tv? I mean, really?

tl;dr Stop being retarded and actually follow advise people are giving you. Even if you're not the one getting DDOS'd, if you're on your old Skype with more than just your 2 partners added in total then YOU are the reason your partners get DDOS'd.

Note: use fake information on these new Skypes, don't use your character/real name/real location.

#5 moojerk

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 12:18 AM

View PostStarcookie, on 12 August 2012 - 12:11 AM, said:

You're fairly fucked if you can't change your IP, you either need to use a mobile internet connection, borrow somebody else's, go to another house or forfeit.

If you're in a tournament and you can change your IP, follow the below TO THE LETTER and you're guaranteed safe:

Create a 2nd Skype, that only has your team mates 2nd skype on it, that you only log during the tournament once you have changed your IP. In addition to this, don't be in the stream chat. This will only work if all 3 of you create the new Skypes, otherwise you can just "view contact list" of the old contacts.

Quite simply if you're a player and you're getting DDOS'd in a tournament, it is YOUR TEAM'S FAULT. As Hood said, it means that one of you, if not more than one, has not changed Skype for the tournament, so the DDOSer is just grabbing your new login information from their contact list, even if they do not have YOU added.

If all 3 of you are not on a new skype, with just the 3 of you added, you might as well not bother having anyone on a new Skype and unplug the internet yourself.

All 3 of you on a new account that ONLY has those 3 accounts added and then change IP - Problem sorted.

Alternatively, get a VPN and then change your IP. Whilst I was streaming, there was not 1 single successful DDOS attack on my connection, despite getting multiple email alerts that there had been attempts.

It actually pisses me off how stupid and ignorant some of you are going into these tournaments. If it was me setting the rules, I would quite simply make every DDOS against your team count as a loss to FORCE you to fix your shit. There is simply no excuse, you have so much time to prepare - Setting up a new skype takes all of 2 minutes. Adding each other's new skype takes less. Less than 5 minutes work to ensure you can't get DDOS'd, yet one or two from each team being DDOS'd still don't do it. It's beyond me. How hard can it be for all 3 of you to log off Skype, reset your IP, all 3 of you log your new Skype and to not be logged in at Twitch.tv? I mean, really?

tl;dr Stop being retarded and actually follow advise people are giving you. Even if you're not the one getting DDOS'd, if you're on your old Skype with more than just your 2 partners added in total then YOU are the reason your partners get DDOS'd.

Note: use fake information on these new Skypes, don't use your character/real name/real location.



Well said.  And honestly, it surprises me that these players don't do this.  You would think they would want to avoid having to forfeit and thus losing their chance to win money.  :/

#6 Starcookie

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 12:29 AM

View Postmoojerk, on 12 August 2012 - 12:18 AM, said:

Well said.  And honestly, it surprises me that these players don't do this.  You would think they would want to avoid having to forfeit and thus losing their chance to win money.  :/

It genuinely pisses me off how stupid some of these players going into these tournaments are.

If you manage to get DDOS'd after doing everything that I posted and can prove to me that you have no active cookies with Twitch.tv and no login to your old Skype since changing your IP, I'll give you the prize money myself. It's literally impossible for them to get your IP if all you have open is [Skype2] (with 2 contacts (partner1, partner2) using fake information) and [WoW]. Unless you have [Trojan1]. But then you're just complete stupid and don't deserve any money.

#7 stillermeister

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 01:00 AM

just want to say that nearly every streamer atm. gets ddosed

#8 Saru93

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 01:06 AM

View Poststillermeister, on 12 August 2012 - 01:00 AM, said:

just want to say that nearly every streamer atm. gets ddosed

you dont say..

#9 dogfighterx

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 01:47 AM

View PostTop, on 11 August 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

- Finally I'll have to input this even though it's futile.  You guys sound like toll noobs calling it DDOS.  It's a dos attack, and the phrase is "I'm getting dos'd, or I'm dosing this noob" etc.  Always has been.  I don't know who made the term DEEE DAWZ popular (suspect Zilea) but ffs I hate it that the term has caught on on wow.

It's a DDoS attack not a DoS attack. You should probably learn the difference between DoS and DDoS before you start acting cool on the internet.

#10 Enteyjin

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 06:30 AM

there is always a way to change the ip. i thought i cant change mine as well but i managed to change it yesterday... ty hoodrych.
so maybe u shud only allow poeple who can change their ip to play on a tournament
just my 2 cents

#11 Dakkrothy

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:26 AM

you are _NOT_ "fuckd" if you cant change your IP. There's still ways. You can whine @ your ISP and get a new router, do it a couple of times and you'll have 5 routers. Switch inbetween the routers to change your IP. Success!

#12 Enteyjin

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 11:13 AM

just change the mac address

#13 Top

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 03:08 PM

View Postmoojerk, on 11 August 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

I've seen multiple people say that DDoS is the wrong term, but those people are just as uninformed

View Postdogfighterx, on 12 August 2012 - 01:47 AM, said:

It's a DDoS attack not a DoS attack. You should probably learn the difference between DoS and DDoS before you start acting cool on the internet.

Ddos is a type of dos.  Outside of the wow bubble, professionals in the industry use the term dos because it is less specific.  There are MANY methods in which to do this, using a botnet is just one of them.  Denial of service is denial of service regardless of the method they use.

- Top, GSEC | CEH

#14 Vethz

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 04:59 PM

First off I want to thank everyone involved in organizing this tournament. It's a shame that things turned out the way they did and I'm sorry the organizers have to put up with being held responsible by some ignorant people.

View PostStarcookie, on 12 August 2012 - 12:11 AM, said:

If it was me setting the rules, I would quite simply make every DDOS against your team count as a loss to FORCE you to fix your shit.

I honestly think this is the best possible solution. You can't just hope the DDOSers don't show up and everything runs smoothly. You have to make sure it does. Simply count the games as losses. Don't allow replays, even if the other team offers one. You can't expect the DDOSers to stop doing it, but at least you can get the competitors to care about avoiding this shit.

#15 Conradical

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 07:35 PM

No games today, we'll try to keep you guys informed in this thread about what's happening. That's all I can really say right now. Sorry for being vague.

#16 moojerk

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 07:36 PM

So, the players in the tourney refused to deal with it by doing things such as taking Hoodrych's advice?  :/

#17 Roostersauce

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 07:37 PM

Amazing how efforts that take quite a bit of planning, effort and time, to put together are sabotaged from within. Irrespective of whether the reason for the DoS attack is apathy, ignorance, on even intentionally disclosed from a tournament participant (stranger things have happened) - there should be some ramifications behind the scenes.

It is becoming increasingly unbearable to watch, let alone look forward to WoW tournaments when this happens with such regularity. Ultimately, the person(s) DoSng are responsible but the players themselves could and can do things to render this concern a mute point. Certainly some of the players must have an idea who might be less than sophisticated when it comes to DoS prevention or have an idea who might benefit from doing this.

Depending how sophisticated the attack(s) are it is feasible that mistakes on the part of one person (including members of their household) can compromise almost everyone participating in the tournament. If someone has set up residence on a players computer tracing IPs of those they communicate with in the process of setting up the tourney is a relatively easy task. With due diligence many, if not all IPs could be ascertained.

This is a real problem because if there is one person who is 1/2 assed about DoS protection and they are allowed to take part in the tournament it can expose many others...even if the other people took steps to protect themselves. There is really no way to defend against such an occurrence barring the following draconian measures

The participants in the tournaments need to police themselves. If there is a general consensus that one or several players are 'weak links' in regard to IP security and that consensus is not built around personal likes/dislikes etc. then simply exclude them from tournament play or involvement. This is not a court of law, there is no legal Burdon of proof - simply disavow them from the process. Additionally, players must have ideas who are likely candidates.

With regard to the commentators - they do a fantastic job and nobody can please everybody all of the time. The individual(s) who are DoSng are not encouraged nor discouraged via ANYTHING the commentators say - their satisfaction is derived from the act of being able to do it. The idea that if the commentators did not mention DoSng it would magically stop is absurd.

Lastly, as many are aware, this is an illegal activity - The disruption of interstate trade via an IP originating in a different state or country (Application of statute varies based on origination-termination points) - is a federal crime AND there are also civil liabilities attached which carry a much smaller burden to 'prove' but could, quite literally, cost the accused 10s of thousands in legal bills; without a case ever seeing a courtroom. When a person is 'young and dumb', this seems an unlikely event for what they might deem a 'trivial' act...until the FBI knocks on your door w/ a subpoena. Trust me, 99.9% of hackers and/or script kiddies who think they are immune are for only one reason; they have not been targeted for investigation.

I am not optimistic this will be resolved.

#18 BriexEU

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 07:50 PM

Pretty sad that one sad nerd can bassiclly fuck up the community (on a already bad) game. WoW Esport ain't the big shit anymore and it needs changes to be, but that dosen't change the fact that the people who still enjoys it should be able to. Players in general are lazy for not changing their IP and they should deffently think about what they are doing after they reseted their IP. I would wish there were a way we could accutaly stop this, we can try to prevent it by changeing IP's and not being silly with our skypes and such but, the fact is that this should be stopped but we don't really have anyway to do this since they just pay to some service and then they are "dangerous attackers".

So sad that if you accutaly know how to search on stuff you can just google/youtube it and you would know how close some 1's internet.

#19 edthelad

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 07:53 PM

Just wondering, does this happen with any other games? (DDosing)
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#20 Mirionx

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 08:00 PM

DDOS happens in all games

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