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We just got the scoop on another exciting World of Warcraft 3v3 Arena Tournament coming up: the Raid Call World of Warcraft Invitational. It's being hosted by Evil Geniuses, no stranger to e-sports and the sponsor of players such as Azael, Cdew, Talbadar and Woundman, and we're happy to see them give back to the community by hosting this tournament.

The team list is being kept under wraps for now, but we've heard rumors of a star studded lineup. So you will want to make sure and head to their stream page and click that follow link. Mark the date and time on your calendar, and consider showing up earlier for a special treat as well!

Prizing:
  • $2000 is up for grabs between the top three teams!
Schedule:
  • Aug 10-12, 3 PM EDT (12 PM PDT, 8 PM London Time)
Casters:
  • Isaac "EG.Azael" Cummings-Bentley.
  • Alexander "Conradical" Hall
Where: To find out more go to http://raidwow.evilgeniuses.net a bit later today.
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#1 Top

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:35 PM

I'd like to offer some advice for azael and conerdical.

I understand you guys want as little dead air time as possible but I feel like the amount of air time you dedicate to "ddos" is really hurting your broadcast.

A few key points

-  It makes you look unprofessional and incompetent.  I don't care if it is or isn't an ACTUAL dos attack on someone that is causing them to d/c, but constantly refering to it just makes it look like you guys don't know what you're doing and are at the mercy of some 15 year old script kiddies.  Stop that.

- IF it is actually a person or persons DOSing crysalid etc, DO NOT GIVE THEM RECOGNITION BY CONSTANTLY TALKING ABOUT IT ON STREAM.  Especially conrad, cannot help himself constantly trying to poke fun at these "people" while they're accomplishing what they want.  Azael said it once yesterday "Stop talking about it, that's what they want." and yet you guys continue to do it.  Just stop!  If it is irrelevant to you and you don't mention it on stream, THEY GET NO RECOGNITION AND IT BECOMES BORING TO THEM.  STOP GIVING THEM CREDIT.

- Finally I'll have to input this even though it's futile.  You guys sound like toll noobs calling it DDOS.  It's a dos attack, and the phrase is "I'm getting dos'd, or I'm dosing this noob" etc.  Always has been.  I don't know who made the term DEEE DAWZ popular (suspect Zilea) but ffs I hate it that the term has caught on on wow.

- Why are you apologizing every 10 seconds on stream?  Once here and there is OK but you do it too much.  It makes the audience feel as though you OWE them something.  You don't.  You're providing a free service.  Stop being sorry about things beyond your control.  A polite "Thanks for bearing with us while we experience technical difficulties" is professional and all you need to say.

tldr;

stop talking about deeee dawz and be professional on stream!

Other than that, thanks for the stream, the actual commentating on the match itself is pretty good.

#2 flubbah

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:37 PM

I feel so bad for everyone who organized this event, it was rly going great, and it's sad to see that you can't even do a proper tournament on this game without having ddos issues.

I guess there's nothing you can do about it since you can't prevent everyone from being ddos'ed, but it's just a shame rly, and i wanted to give all my support to those who made that tournament possible

#3 flubbah

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:42 PM

View PostTop, on 11 August 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

I'd like to offer some advice for azael and conerdical.

I understand you guys want as little dead air time as possible but I feel like the amount of air time you dedicate to "ddos" is really hurting your broadcast.

A few key points

-  It makes you look unprofessional and incompetent.  I don't care if it is or isn't an ACTUAL dos attack on someone that is causing them to d/c, but constantly refering to it just makes it look like you guys don't know what you're doing and are at the mercy of some 15 year old script kiddies.  Stop that.

- IF it is actually a person or persons DOSing crysalid etc, DO NOT GIVE THEM RECOGNITION BY CONSTANTLY TALKING ABOUT IT ON STREAM.  Especially conrad, cannot help himself constantly trying to poke fun at these "people" while they're accomplishing what they want.  Azael said it once yesterday "Stop talking about it, that's what they want." and yet you guys continue to do it.  Just stop!  If it is irrelevant to you and you don't mention it on stream, THEY GET NO RECOGNITION AND IT BECOMES BORING TO THEM.  STOP GIVING THEM CREDIT.

- Finally I'll have to input this even though it's futile.  You guys sound like toll noobs calling it DDOS.  It's a dos attack, and the phrase is "I'm getting dos'd, or I'm dosing this noob" etc.  Always has been.  I don't know who made the term DEEE DAWZ popular (suspect Zilea) but ffs I hate it that the term has caught on on wow.

- Why are you apologizing every 10 seconds on stream?  Once here and there is OK but you do it too much.  It makes the audience feel as though you OWE them something.  You don't.  You're providing a free service.  Stop being sorry about things beyond your control.  A polite "Thanks for bearing with us while we experience technical difficulties" is professional and all you need to say.

tldr;

stop talking about deeee dawz and be professional on stream!

Other than that, thanks for the stream, the actual commentating on the match itself is pretty good.

They didnt give any "credit" to those retards, they mentioned it because ppl had to know what's going on, can't believe you're actually complaining on Azael & Conrad's commentating skill, those are the 2 best commentators that we have, and what they do for the community is huge.

And rly who gives a fucking shit about if it's "Dos" or "DDos" get a fucking life for christ sake

#4 Azaelz

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:44 PM

View PostTop, on 11 August 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

I'd like to offer some advice for azael and conerdical.

I understand you guys want as little dead air time as possible but I feel like the amount of air time you dedicate to "ddos" is really hurting your broadcast.

A few key points

-  It makes you look unprofessional and incompetent.  I don't care if it is or isn't an ACTUAL dos attack on someone that is causing them to d/c, but constantly refering to it just makes it look like you guys don't know what you're doing and are at the mercy of some 15 year old script kiddies.  Stop that.

- IF it is actually a person or persons DOSing crysalid etc, DO NOT GIVE THEM RECOGNITION BY CONSTANTLY TALKING ABOUT IT ON STREAM.  Especially conrad, cannot help himself constantly trying to poke fun at these "people" while they're accomplishing what they want.  Azael said it once yesterday "Stop talking about it, that's what they want." and yet you guys continue to do it.  Just stop!  If it is irrelevant to you and you don't mention it on stream, THEY GET NO RECOGNITION AND IT BECOMES BORING TO THEM.  STOP GIVING THEM CREDIT.

- Finally I'll have to input this even though it's futile.  You guys sound like toll noobs calling it DDOS.  It's a dos attack, and the phrase is "I'm getting dos'd, or I'm dosing this noob" etc.  Always has been.  I don't know who made the term DEEE DAWZ popular (suspect Zilea) but ffs I hate it that the term has caught on on wow.

- Why are you apologizing every 10 seconds on stream?  Once here and there is OK but you do it too much.  It makes the audience feel as though you OWE them something.  You don't.  You're providing a free service.  Stop being sorry about things beyond your control.  A polite "Thanks for bearing with us while we experience technical difficulties" is professional and all you need to say.

tldr;

stop talking about deeee dawz and be professional on stream!

Other than that, thanks for the stream, the actual commentating on the match itself is pretty good.

Not really sure what you expect us to say at this point, every match is a d/c due to DOS basically.  If there's a small issue here and there like there has been in other tournaments I 100% agree that it's pointless to mention but are we really expected to just say "Oh hey look another d/c!!!" 15 times in a row, and just spam restart the games, or even worse pretend they were legit and count them?

We have no content to provide because every team is just getting constantly disconnected so there's literally zero we can do about delays.  It's a sad state of affairs but there's literally nothing we can do on our end, it's totally up to the individuals to stop themselves from getting DOSed, and all it takes is one person making a mistake, or intentionally leaking Skype names to ruin a tournament completely even with all the proper preparation.  I put a ton of time into organizing the tournament, making sure everyone understood all the precautions they would have to take in order to avoid DOS attacks just because I wanted to run a professional / smooth tournament for the community.

I can tell you I'm making zero money from running this tournament even with all the time I put in, because I wanted to give something back to the community and hopefully create a successful tournament series that could go onward into MoP.  Unfortunately it's impossible to justify putting in the time, and getting prize money from sponsors etc if this is how the community will react to a tournament (even if it's just a handful of people).  The Twitch chat is also very disappointing, simply because we're being blamed for something completely out of our control and players are being bashed on for "fake" d/c'ing as their net connections constantly go down, etc.

The community as a whole needs to grow up.

#5 stillermeister

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:46 PM

First of all: Thanks for hosting a Tournament and putting so much work in it!

But i support this:

Quote

- Why are you apologizing every 10 seconds on stream? Once here and there is OK but you do it too much. It makes the audience feel as though you OWE them something. You don't. You're providing a free service. Stop being sorry about things beyond your control. A polite "Thanks for bearing with us while we experience technical difficulties" is professional and all you need to say.
As soon as you say "we are sorry for the delay" "we apologize a lot" etc, the people dont think "shit ddoser", they think "shit organizer" because you let the people think that you did something wrong as soon as you are apologizing!

Thats my 5 cent, i have too less knowledge to give you any tips against ddosing (or dosing, however :) )

Greetings


Edit: It's just very sad that so many tournaments have to stop at some point because of this shit. Putting so much effort and work in it, and seeing how it goes down by a 15 yo virgin who trys to get attention, man...

#6 Skoee

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:46 PM

This is such a shame for all the work ure all doing for the wow community, every tournaments are organized by players and this was going great so far, i don't know which kind of person you can be to ddos players in the few events going on in this game but this is really sad, and i really hope this won't be an issue for every other tournaments like NAO because that is all it remains in terms of wow tournaments.

#7 flubbah

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:46 PM

View PostAzaelz, on 11 August 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

The community as a whole needs to grow up.

Pretty much resumes the entire situation even tho we all know that when we say the "community" it's obviously & luckily a small portion of it

#8 Dakkrothy

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:48 PM

I do recommend everyone participating to go through Mugemz DoS protection guide once more before next time. I got DoS'd 5 consecutive days and I felt like something HAD to be done. I did buy a VPN (20 bucks ish @ Strongvpn.com) This completely protected me against DoS (make sure u reset your IP once before enabling it). Using a VPN can drastically affect your connection however so it made me unable to stream. It didnt make me lag though so you should defo try  it out! I believe its a 7 days 100% money back thingie which you can abuse for this tourny.


I could not stream using this VPN though. It was way too laggy for the viewer to be able to watch it so during stream I was not able to be protected through a VPN. So I kept searching for another way to get protected & passed by mugemz guide on how to protect yourself. The one step I went through was to hide your skype through a proxy using the skype settings. Ever since I done that I havent got DoS'd once, so it I think it works but can't give you any garantues.


Anyway, DoS is digusting and whoever is doing it is one sad prick

#9 WildeHilde

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:48 PM

How about everyone being required to use Raid Call instead of Skype? Maybe Raid Call would even sponsor tournaments.

#10 Conradical

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:49 PM

View PostTop, on 11 August 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

I understand you guys want as little dead air time as possible but I feel like the amount of air time you dedicate to "ddos" is really hurting your broadcast.

It's a WoW tournament that we're organizing and putting people in groups for. What would you suggest we do while teams are getting ddosed and we, ourselves, are trying to solve it?

Quote

-  It makes you look unprofessional and incompetent.  I don't care if it is or isn't an ACTUAL dos attack on someone that is causing them to d/c, but constantly refering to it just makes it look like you guys don't know what you're doing and are at the mercy of some 15 year old script kiddies.  Stop that.

I'm sorry that the actions of others are causing us to look unprofessional and incompetent. It isn't a coincidence that 6/8 teams that played were disconnecting constantly after the 45s mark, while d/cing from skype and going robot mode before hand. As for the 15 year old comment, yes, it is possible that a 15 year old can be doing this. That's the issue. But despite most players changing their skype/IP, some players are unable to do so. Some went out and purchased new routers/modems/whatever in order to be able to not get DDOSed, yet they were.

Quote

- IF it is actually a person or persons DOSing crysalid etc, DO NOT GIVE THEM RECOGNITION BY CONSTANTLY TALKING ABOUT IT ON STREAM.  Especially conrad, cannot help himself constantly trying to poke fun at these "people" while they're accomplishing what they want.  Azael said it once yesterday "Stop talking about it, that's what they want." and yet you guys continue to do it.  Just stop!  If it is irrelevant to you and you don't mention it on stream, THEY GET NO RECOGNITION AND IT BECOMES BORING TO THEM.  STOP GIVING THEM CREDIT.

You're probably right here, but the general public wants  to know what's happening. People are spamming "DDOS" in chat anyway, so it's not like it's a huge secret.

Quote

- Finally I'll have to input this even though it's futile.  You guys sound like toll noobs calling it DDOS.  It's a dos attack, and the phrase is "I'm getting dos'd, or I'm dosing this noob" etc.  Always has been.  I don't know who made the term DEEE DAWZ popular (suspect Zilea) but ffs I hate it that the term has caught on on wow.

I am referring to it by the phrase that most people have associated the "dos attack" with.

Quote

- Why are you apologizing every 10 seconds on stream?  Once here and there is OK but you do it too much.  It makes the audience feel as though you OWE them something.  You don't.  You're providing a free service.  Stop being sorry about things beyond your control.  A polite "Thanks for bearing with us while we experience technical difficulties" is professional and all you need to say.

Some people just joining us may be wondering why they are watching two people sitting their typing furiously and not saying anything. I think it's best to let them know what's happening.

Quote

tldr;

stop talking about deeee dawz and be professional on stream!

Other than that, thanks for the stream, the actual commentating on the match itself is pretty good.

Thank you for the feedback.

#11 Saru93

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:52 PM

View Postxaxses, on 10 August 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

although i dont want to blame & flame anyone but 1) it isnt really fun to watch that rls (maybe due to inactivity of the players, at least in competitive kinds of playing) and 2) the phd performs so bad honestly i dont want to sound arrogant but there are many phds in europe much stronger than this

nevertheless, the Cams and both Conrad and Azeal @ gamescom are total amazing!

anyway good luck and hoping to see more interessting matches soon!

edit: /vote for more mirror matches in turnies!

not your PHD :)

but I feel bad for all the organizer that put so much effort into this. I hope you will keep those tournaments up even though there are huge spastics out there having fun ddosin players at a tournament.

and btw azael and conrad, you guys should ignore this idiot up there complaining about your commentating skills, it is awesome ♥

#12 khuna

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:54 PM

so disgusting

#13 windsorlockhorn

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 10:06 PM

Just registered to say thanks for trying guys and hope something gets worked out as I am a supporter from England so sitting up until silly o'clock to watch :), The Twitch chat was god awful but could we not have a delay in the stream of maybe 15 to 30 mins? so the series by the time it is streamed is already over?

Also just as a side request, As I am new to wow could you not ask the players to use the names they are known by on chars? as watching yesterday you said the names of players and I didn't have a clue who you were refering to but its not that important I guess but something that as a noob would appreciate

#14 hoodrych

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 10:16 PM

There is 2 reasons why this continues..

1) Players think it will just "stop", that since DDOSing happened yesterday to their partner, and their partner went out and changed Skypes/IP yet they themselves didn't, they are now getting DDOS'd out of ignorance "it can't happen to me". This is 100% fact. I have every single tournament player on my old Skype that I use from a different connection, and a lot of them are still using their old Skype.

2) Not becoming informed about how to prevent it. This is the main reason. You can call them 15 year olds, wonder why they want to ruin tournaments, complain forever, etc. Nothing will stop it, the only thing you have control of is your end and if you are in any way affiliated with the tournament as a player or organizer it is your responsibility to take action.

Just because you have never been DDOS'd, does not mean you shouldn't take precautions as this has single handily ruined many tournaments, and is making the current one look like a complete joke. Use common sense, do you share a connection with someone else who is using Skype in your house? Ex. does your brother player WoW and hasn't made a new Skype, and people might know who he is? Are you signing in on your old Skype from your Phone via Wi-Fi?

I really hate to seem like I'm putting blame on the players, and obviously it's terrible that someone feels the need to actually attack tournaments in this way, but the information is out there, the results are available, cases such as Samx, Zilea, Maldiva, Myself... are all people who have been DDOS'd for weeks and now stream without any issues.

Educate http://www.arenajunk...e-changing-ips/

#15 khuna

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 10:22 PM

Alot of people can't change their IP, specially in France , also you can see alot of top sc2 players streaming their skype name even if i agree that isnt a good reason (plus some people can't change their skype because they have a lot of people on it they got over the years and it isnt that easy to add them again, not talking about me but i know some people in this case )

#16 saladisok

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 10:28 PM

the boss has spoken

#17 Top

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 10:29 PM

@ some people - Pretty sure I said, their actual commentating on the matches themselves is good, just the amount of air time dedicated to talking about dosing and apologizing should be cut down significantly.  It is not an attack on their commentating skills.

View PostConradical, on 11 August 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

It's a WoW tournament that we're organizing and putting people in groups for. What would you suggest we do while teams are getting ddosed and we, ourselves, are trying to solve it?

An example:  At one point in the match conrad you were talking about the differences between RLS vs shadowplay on the ATR and Live.  You spoke about the differences (rogues daggers vs two cunnings, etc) and how the metagame shifts based on that gear not being available, and which team had more of an advantage/disadvantage because of it.  Towards the end of your statement, you said something along the lines of, "Well azael would know more about this than I would."  I would have liked to see you flat out ask azael of his analysis of the differences between live and atr, or not end it with that statement, however, this is a good example of what to do.  Just do more of it.  You're a smart guy, you know what you can do.  Talk in depth about the the differences of each class.  Make a bracket with picks and use it as a graphic.  Make it a fun back and forth game between you and azael.  Predict the outcomes.  Talk about how the terrain of the different maps helps/hinders.  Analyze why a certain team picked this map or chose to ban a certain map based on their comp.  Talk about some interesting anecdotes involving the players in the matches, viewers love to have some insight into things like that.

I know what you're thinking, I do a lot of that already.  Yes you do.  I would just try to curb it MORE towards things like that than talk about dosing.  It's hard I understand because the DOS is right in your face, it's on your mind, and its frustrating.

As for the rest, let me say again.  This is not an attack on your or azael's commentating skills.  I'm an old schooler who's been around since pandemic was running train on everyone and stream casting has come A LONG way since then, I know you guys do a good job.  I'm just trying to offer some advice on leveraging out the stuff that I feel works against what you're trying to accomplish.

#18 Mirionx

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 10:45 PM

The tournament looked great it's just shit that people have to ruin it

#19 Milleh

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 10:59 PM

was really enjoying the tournament so of course I find it sad to see that some people would want to destroy one of the things keeping this community alive. Many thanks for putting in the time and effort to try and make this tournament work. It's is really hard to do more against these attacks and we can only hope that whoever has been doing this will move on and find something better to do. I have no personal experience with being a victim of such an attack but that people are willing to break laws just to ruin the entertainment of others is beyond me. It's disgusting!

Just had to share my opinion. Hope the tournament will be able to continue and that more will come in the future!
Indestructible, Determination that is incorruptible, From the other side,
A terror to behold, Annihilation Will be unavoidable, Every broken enemy
Will know That their opponent had to be invincible, Take a last look around While you're alive, I'm an indestructible Master of war

#20 Liox

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 11:23 PM

Thanks for setting up this tournament guys.
It's the right way, a good step. I honestly hope you guys can somehow manage to move on with this stuff.

@Azael: About the twitch.tv-Chat: Don't think about it. Fade it out. The chat is spammed by ridicoulus guys who are cheering for their favorites and blaming players for everything. I know you need to get some feedback but that's what threads like this one are for. Personally I had to close the chat after three minutes and just used the fullscreen because I was so annoyed of all the crap going on there. There is no space for questions or discussions, just stupid kids flaming each other the whole time.

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