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ArenaJunkies Shutting Down on July 1st 2018

 

Today we'll be announcing the closure of ArenaJunkies on July 1st. This was a hard decision to make, and we would like to sincerely thank you all the users who have supported us over the years.

 

I'll always remember using ArenaJunkies since way back in Wrath of the Lich King, where many of us had our competitive banters over our rating and gameplay. AJ was a fun place where I found a lot of useful information when I was new to arenas, and the spice from the battlegroup forums really added to the competitiveness nature of PvP.

 

It was fun being a user, moderator, and admin of this site. Thank you all for your support!

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Comments

#1 DkH.ZeRa

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 12:53 PM

Noooooo! : (






Nooooooooooooo!
(two words)
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#2 Lobstermania

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 08:52 PM

 

RAT BADS 


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#3 Zero82599

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 11:50 PM

The classic community is worse than the rogue/mage one.

 

Which says a lot.

 

Bye o/

I laughed so damn hard at that, that roast is 10/10


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This happened in an RBG 3 days after I logged onto legion again after topping dmg charts as an affl:

65b4d09e9e118aff7e52a6f7f1850941.pnga4a7cc7b53317460fd9dd5730c137193.png


#4 Thaya

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 03:59 PM

bosses only autohit, mobtagging, oom after every mob, 5 sec mounting time, no gold for anything, getting camped, stupid skillless pvp grind that a bot can do, 1 button classes, gameplay feels like you have brain dmg because global take forever, no loot, one dungeon = 2h, made for people who are still stuck in 2005 - go ahead

Everything being inconvenient and taking time is precisely what made it great
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#5 Jim_Jim

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 07:19 PM

Everything being inconvenient and taking time is precisely what made it great

 

So, instead of going at my work in 20 min with my car, i should go by walking?

I guess that would makes me do some physical activities.

 

(And i would do that if it was counted on my work's time.)

 

EDIT : Check MMO-Champion, Hotfixes. Not for rogue/mage of course, that would be silly.


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#6 Melaniatrump

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 09:42 PM

So, instead of going at my work in 20 min with my car, i should go by walking?

I guess that would makes me do some physical activities.

 

(And i would do that if it was counted on my work's time.)

 

EDIT : Check MMO-Champion, Hotfixes. Not for rogue/mage of course, that would be silly.

 

 

Shit analogy.  Are you actually suggesting that modern day wow is better than vanilla?


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#7 Thaya

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 01:54 AM

So, instead of going at my work in 20 min with my car, i should go by walking?
I guess that would makes me do some physical activities.
 
(And i would do that if it was counted on my work's time.)
 
EDIT : Check MMO-Champion, Hotfixes. Not for rogue/mage of course, that would be silly.

Yeah, but you had to earn the money to afford one by walking. Ergo, you bought a car because you're aware that walking to work every day sucks. That's why that car has a lot of value to you - because the world without it sucks, and you know it.

When making a dungeon group took 2 hours of sitting in trade chat, you valued every connection you've made on the realm, as it could help you create or join groups, or make your runs at least slightly less shit if it's a good player. When raids weren't accessible to everybody with the click of a button, you valued your guild and your status in it, as you physically wouldn't be able to do a lot of the content without it. When arena teams had rosters/charters and you had to effectively lock yourself to one particular group to play, it's that very commitment of everybody involved that made the relationship valuable and important (on top of there being no matchmaking tools so you had to look for people manually on forums such as this one, and everybody had to be on the same realm which meant monetary commitments and/or pvpers clustering on specific realms, thus also creating communities/guilds).

An inconvenience existing and you overcoming it is one thing, an inconvenience not existing in the first place is another. One is valuable and interesting, the other is nothing more than a property of the environment and thus is worthless.

Your car is great and you should cherish and use it, because walking for hours to work every day would suck. You've obtained it as a means to overcome an existing inconvenience. But ArenaJunkies will die, because Blizzard figured that playing with 10 different random anonymous cunts from the queue every day is a lot more convenient than having to find actual people that will commit their time to being on your team and playing with you. It's worthless and serves no purpose, so it will be shut down.

Do you see what I mean? I'm not saying that inconveniences are great and you should make your life as inconvenient as possible. I'm saying this game used to have a lot more inconveniences that forced you to connect and spend time with other people - and that made it great.
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#8 Jim_Jim

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 04:45 PM

Shit analogy.  Are you actually suggesting that modern day wow is better than vanilla?

 

Never said it was better, just different. I think every xpac was good and bad on its own, even WoD. (Which was my least favorite).

Modern WoW is for many people end of TBC/Wrath, when they start adding valor point to buy epics, and add more accessible raids, specs, and LFG. So if i had to choose, i would choose Wrath/post Wrath yes. My favorite was MoP, not a secret. The PvP was the fast-paced from Wotlk, with less PvE gear (At the end), customization with gear (Stats, enchant, gems), and talents/glyphs - even if i never find talents really interesting for customization.). And everyone was viable, some more than others, but it's the same as any xpac. But at least, everyone can enjoy his own spec.

 

Even in Wotlk, how many topics about the "end of WoW", about how the modern game is trash, that everyone could play the game.

"You're a wotlk glad" - said the rdruid.

 

Ironic.

 

Yeah, but you had to earn the money to afford one by walking. Ergo, you bought a car because you're aware that walking to work every day sucks. That's why that car has a lot of value to you - because the world without it sucks, and you know it.

When making a dungeon group took 2 hours of sitting in trade chat, you valued every connection you've made on the realm, as it could help you create or join groups, or make your runs at least slightly less shit if it's a good player. When raids weren't accessible to everybody with the click of a button, you valued your guild and your status in it, as you physically wouldn't be able to do a lot of the content without it. When arena teams had rosters/charters and you had to effectively lock yourself to one particular group to play, it's that very commitment of everybody involved that made the relationship valuable and important (on top of there being no matchmaking tools so you had to look for people manually on forums such as this one, and everybody had to be on the same realm which meant monetary commitments and/or pvpers clustering on specific realms, thus also creating communities/guilds).

An inconvenience existing and you overcoming it is one thing, an inconvenience not existing in the first place is another. One is valuable and interesting, the other is nothing more than a property of the environment and thus is worthless.

Your car is great and you should cherish and use it, because walking for hours to work every day would suck. You've obtained it as a means to overcome an existing inconvenience. But ArenaJunkies will die, because Blizzard figured that playing with 10 different random anonymous cunts from the queue every day is a lot more convenient than having to find actual people that will commit their time to being on your team and playing with you. It's worthless and serves no purpose, so it will be shut down.

Do you see what I mean? I'm not saying that inconveniences are great and you should make your life as inconvenient as possible. I'm saying this game used to have a lot more inconveniences that forced you to connect and spend time with other people - and that made it great.

 

Yes, it was not an "incoveniance", it was a total burden, and you will never hear me say "I miss having to use the metro and appreciate the wonderful... diversity of France's metro." (Come on, let me do one more before leaving.).

 

Having to change realm because yours was a bit empty, having to change your race because "Sorry, but we want a dwarf priest", being rejected because you find the shadow priest fun but nah, only healer spec can PvE. Of course there are some exceptions, and sometimes, you get destroyed in World PvP by the only shadowpriest in the realm with full Naxxramas gear, but that's it : an exception. These are not inconveniant, these are burdens.

 

Having to walk to the dungeon is inconveniant.

Farming the reputation of the furbolg, the timeless isle, the prestige now is inconveniant : it's time consuming, not really funny. The obstacle you have to pass is having enough patience and will to do it.

Killing Mythic Argus is inconveniant. You have to optimize your character, know your rotations, know the fight, and have patience to wipe a lot on it. I don't have that. That's why you will see my Argus achievement probably next xpac.

Doing "The Chosen" achivement with a PU group is inconveniant. But i overcame it (And with twice the gear requiered), and i haven't feel good about a title for a long time.

Farming the tbc drake was inconveniant. And you know what, i never did it. I'm too lazy for it. And i don't like those drakes.

 

I'm saying this game used to have a lot more inconveniences that forced you to connect and spend time with other people

 

 

This is the biggest lie i read on the classic forums and stuff. This is absolutely false. You were not forced at all. You can play entirely alone, surronded by people, but the game doesn't forced you to interact. Why do you think WoW was a success in that time. All other MMO had penalty when death, some of them requieres a full group in order to kill regular mobs on the world. I never felt that much in danger in this old MMO (Ryzom), than i ever was in WoW. And guess what, it fails on the long term, because the so-called "inconveniance" become a chore, and not really funny. Vanilla was already the "casual" game back then.

 

When making a dungeon group took 2 hours of sitting in trade chat, you valued every connection you've made on the realm, as it could help you create or join groups, or make your runs at least slightly less shit if it's a good player. When raids weren't accessible to everybody with the click of a button

 

 

You never wonder why, despite having a constant growing on participation during years (Up until Wotlk), more and more people playing it, you still needed 2 hours to form a simple FIVE-man group? Because as i said before, the community, the so-called wonderful community was absolute elitists players. Read the forums, see all those "Real players" treat you when you dare saying "Oh i like Legion, i had fun.".

 

Spending 2 hours because most of the time, you reject all the "trash specs", you would find the warrior tank, and hope that a mage/rogue/warlock/hunt answer, instead of a ret, balance druid, or enhance. This was absolutely not inconveniant at all. Because not everyone suffer and had to overcome it.

I got removed from group back then because a rogue and a warlock answer the /2 announce, and "No sorry, but SP is not that good."

Thankfully, i choose the good spec back then, and my sister too, and we did all the dungeon as 2 shadowpriest. And in PvP, ha, i was the mage right now, totally stupid and OP.

 

My realm back then welcomed the LFG tool in 3.3 with open arms, because the realm was already dead. (People migrated from other more populated realms - and people like Hydra come here because it was "easier to get R1" - which always makes me laugh when people considered those titles as anything serious btw. -).

Indeed it was less personnal, less "I know this guy". But at least you could play the game. With any spec you want without having to put an entire CV of "Why my spec is valuable.".

 

Good and bad things as the same time. But from my experience, i never did as much activities in WoW during Classic, now i can PvE on my level (Heroic max, as i said.), i can farm transmog (Cata), i can do whatever i want to do, arena, mythic dj (Legion). I have my own circle of friends IG, i made one IRL. You could, can, and will be able to that at any xpac.

 

However, it's a good thing for people who want the Classic realm, i'm really curious to see how it's gonna be on the long term. I hope they will makes statistics, how much horde, which class, how many goes to level 60 etc etc...

I would probably never play it. Every time i played an old game for nostalgia, it went horrible, and totally defiled my memories. (Unless you can lobotomize me so i can be super happy to have a mount or an epic item instead of "meh".)

 

I remember farming one day, fishing on stratholme because some rumour was that you can drop Ashbringer here. I can't have that now. (Datamining things before any xpac is something i dislike a lot for exemple.)

BfA will come out, and most of the stuff is already known :(

 

But everyone will have his own experience.


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#9 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 05:50 PM

idk Jimjim, you answer your own questions

 

This is the biggest lie i read on the classic forums and stuff. This is absolutely false. You were not forced at all. You can play entirely alone, surronded by people, but the game doesn't forced you to interact

 

You never wonder why, despite having a constant growing on participation during years (Up until Wotlk), more and more people playing it, you still needed 2 hours to form a simple FIVE-man group?

 

I never had to wait 2 hours to form a single 5 man group in wotlk because of all the friends i had from vanilla and tbc and wotlk + the guilds I joined in that time - if you chose to treat continuous wow expansions as solo player experiences where you did group content as quickly as possible and then never saw or spoke to those people again, don't complain that your individual experiences with group content did not improve over time


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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#10 Jim_Jim

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 05:58 PM

idk Jimjim, you answer your own questions

 

 

 

I never had to wait 2 hours to form a single 5 man group in wotlk because of all the friends i had from vanilla and tbc and wotlk + the guilds I joined in that time - if you chose to treat continuous wow expansions as solo player experiences where you do group content as quickly as possible and then never see or talk to those people again, don't complain that your individual experience with group content did not improve

 

Yes, in Wotlk. In the modern WoW, like i said. You never had to wait 2 hours because there was a LFG tools at the end, and almost every spec in the game was viable for PvE (You could come as a shadowpriest for damage, as a rdruid for heal, and not only for innervate, paladin had a role, dps shaman too). So people weren't that bitchy about your spec, and the dungeons were really faster than the Vanilla one. As i said, some good and bad at the same time.

 

 

The good is that everyone can play the game, the bad is that, well... everyone became like we are now, too pruned, and not really different as a class.

 

And you said exactly my point. I choose to treat it as a solo experience. (The questing mostly, i hate doing quest as a group.). Otherwise, i played as a group, and make friends when i want to. And the battlenet thingy helped me a lot. I got a lot of good friends in game.

 

The game never forced me to play as a group (In Vanilla). Especially the levelling. I could level up to 60 alone, like i did, throwing buff (I loved that) to people i meet on the road, help them killing their npc, but never group. I could totally skip elite quests, or dungeon. And when 60, i can do whatever i wanted to do. Like now. And have the progress i choose, the friends i choose. Right now, i choose mostly PvP, and PvE for transmog. In Vanilla, i choose to (ruin my life in) PvP, and got R10, because i had a terrible experience in PvE because of my spec / age / pvp activites.

 

A recent MMO-RPG had this kind of forced social interactions. It was nothing compared to older mmo, but in order to go from zone A to B to progress in levelling, you had to do a complete scenario (Like a dungeon mostly), which last like 30-40min, as a group. (Classical tank/heal/dps)

If you don't do that, you can't go in the next zone.

 

It's nothing you will say. It is nothing, indeed. Still forced to do it.

 

WoW never had that.


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#11 Thaya

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 06:35 PM

@Jim

I'm not saying that vanilla was perfect and better in every way. Balance was one of the major issues, I do agree with that completely.

Having to walk to the dungeon is one of the key things that were removed. It heavily damages the whole "one big world with many other players" aspect. So do flying mounts, by the way. The whole premise and concept of an MMORPG is "there's one big persistent world with many other players you can meet and engage" - well, you don't get to encounter those players or interact with that world if you can just fly 11 kilometers in the sky and/or just get teleported to the only isolated locations (instances). The whole game is reduced to just going from point A to point B on the map and doing shit. The world becomes optional, which goes against the core concept of the game.
 

This is the biggest lie i read on the classic forums and stuff. This is absolutely false. You were not forced at all. You can play entirely alone, surronded by people, but the game doesn't forced you to interact. Why do you think WoW was a success in that time. All other MMO had penalty when death, some of them requieres a full group in order to kill regular mobs on the world. I never felt that much in danger in this old MMO (Ryzom), than i ever was in WoW. And guess what, it fails on the long term, because the so-called "inconveniance" become a chore, and not really funny. Vanilla was already the "casual" game back then.

What I meant was that to see the content (i.e. dungeons and raids, and even the group quests which existed in pretty much every zone - there's much less of those now; there even were 5man quest arcs, remember EPL quests?). There was only one way to do it - go out of your way and find people to play with. It could be channels, forums, finding a guild, friendlisting people, recruiting on trade chat, talking to people on the realm forums, talking to people on arenajunkies, joining IRC channels for realms/battlegroups, etc. But you had to actually do it yourself, you had to find a way to connect - that's why we created all these communities in the first place. Currently you can witness all of the games content via LFR which you can do with literally 0 human interaction, and the premade finder which simplifies your interactions down to "if it has enough ilvl/rating/achievement -> invite" in most cases. You interact with the UI more than with people - and I've Heroic pugged entire Legion myself.

The thing that got me into PvE originally is that I wanted to see the content. Nowadays the only reason to do it is to see your characters numbers increase, which isn't that much of a drive really. It was an adventure, an adventure that was shared with another 20 or 25 or 40 people or whatever - and that's the whole spirit of an MMORPG to me. Any kind of automatic matchmaking is vandalism, and even the (albeit very convenient) premade finder is an abomination.
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#12 Thaya

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 06:39 PM


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#13 Jim_Jim

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 06:50 PM

@Jim

I'm not saying that vanilla was perfect and better in every way. Balance was one of the major issues, I do agree with that completely.

Having to walk to the dungeon is one of the key things that were removed. It heavily damages the whole "one big world with many other players" aspect. So do flying mounts, by the way. The whole premise and concept of an MMORPG is "there's one big persistent world with many other players you can meet and engage" - well, you don't get to encounter those players or interact with that world if you can just fly 11 kilometers in the sky and/or just get teleported to the only isolated locations (instances). The whole game is reduced to just going from point A to point B on the map and doing shit. The world becomes optional, which goes against the core concept of the game.
 
What I meant was that to see the content (i.e. dungeons and raids, and even the group quests which existed in pretty much every zone - there's much less of those now; there even were 5man quest arcs, remember EPL quests?). There was only one way to do it - go out of your way and find people to play with. It could be channels, forums, finding a guild, friendlisting people, recruiting on trade chat, talking to people on the realm forums, talking to people on arenajunkies, joining IRC channels for realms/battlegroups, etc. But you had to actually do it yourself, you had to find a way to connect - that's why we created all these communities in the first place. Currently you can witness all of the games content via LFR which you can do with literally 0 human interaction, and the premade finder which simplifies your interactions down to "if it has enough ilvl/rating/achievement -> invite" in most cases. You interact with the UI more than with people - and I've Heroic pugged entire Legion myself.

The thing that got me into PvE originally is that I wanted to see the content. Nowadays the only reason to do it is to see your characters numbers increase, which isn't that much of a drive really. It was an adventure, an adventure that was shared with another 20 or 25 or 40 people or whatever - and that's the whole spirit of an MMORPG to me. Any kind of automatic matchmaking is vandalism, and even the (albeit very convenient) premade finder is an abomination.

 

Once again, of course some activites required a group, i never said that the entire game is a solo experience. I just said that everytime people argue for Classic (Which they are totally right to.), they mentioned the "The game forced you to do as group.". And this is false. False, false, false.

Not a single time the game FORCED you to group.

 

And going to point A from point B is ironically what was Vanilla. Because in order to form a group, you needed to stay on the faction hub (Orgrimmar, on the bank roof), or Ironforge. And wait from here. And then go from point I(ronforge) to S(cholomance).

The world was huge during levelling (When i got my first flying path, i yelled on my room and ask my dad to see it, i was so excited), but way less during the high-level content.

 

And if you wanted to do raid, you had to farm component. Something you usually do... alone. Most of the time. The ones from Strat (I don't have the english name, for the enchant) might be an exception. All the time you can either do that for yourself, or contribute alone. But it's still a solo chore to do before the raid.

(And classes like warlock had to farm the shards, damn it, even worse)

 

WoW has been a destroyer of all the other mmo because of his casual way of MMORPG.

 

And please, do not link me Kungen videos. This guy is the parangon of all i hated in the community in Classic. Narcissic, arrogant, despicable, the pvp mage of his time. He said on one of his stream that PvP players are not real players (You cannot imagine how many time i heard that : "real players"), shouldn't be listen to. And find perfectly normal that most of the class got rejected for PvE.

That's rich coming from a guy who played the only viable tank class. Exactly like this irritating guy advocating for classic, asking people to harass streamers and stuff. "Alexensual". He is passionnate, you can't deny it, but come on. And what is he playing? Priest. Heal.

 

I could say "I don't understand why you dislike PvP as balance druid, i got just fine as undead shadowpriest"

 

It's like all the rdruid in S5 saying that "Woah, it was real PvP in TBC when i played SL/SL rdruid in 2v2"


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#14 Thaya

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 07:06 PM

If you want to do a piece of content and it's designed in a way that you can not do it solo - isn't that forced by definition? It doesn't matter whether it's a leveling zone or an instance in concept, or if its levels or item levels progression.

Going to a city to find brave heroes and actually going to the battlefield with them, to me, sounds a lot more interesting than opening the UI, selecting the right dropdown element and just like appearing there. They are totally different experiences.

People you don't like can make valid points. But sure, whatever.

And balance issues are a whole different subject. I'm talking about the overall design trends. Balance could've been great back then and awful 5-viable-classes now, and my opinion wouldn't change at all. What I miss is absence of flying mounts, absence of difficulty modes in dungeons, absence of cross realm play (i.e. smaller realm-based communities, too many people makes it all much more anonymous), even absence of transfers and namechanges so you had to fully stick to your choices. I miss when being in a guild was the only way to raid, and when being on a team charter was the only way to arena. It was all much less convenient, but it made every connection much more important and valuable - precisely because I knew how fucked I'd be without the guild or without the teams. There's much less reason to care about shit now.

It doesn't matter who played what class. I've played shadow priest in Vanilla and enhancement shaman in TBC. Not exactly the highest demand specs. I've also played on a RPPvP realm called Scarshield Legion all the way until late WotLK, which was constantly in the bottom 20 by population. Not just that, but it was in BG Ruin, which had a total of 4 realms - by far the smallest BG. I really don't think that I'm spoiled by a great vanilla experience or anything.
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#15 Jim_Jim

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 08:24 PM

If you want to do a piece of content and it's designed in a way that you can not do it solo - isn't that forced by definition? It doesn't matter whether it's a leveling zone or an instance in concept, or if its levels or item levels progression.

 

 

Of course. But you decide before that you're gonna do that. It's not a huge red warning on the screen. Imagine right "If you want to do arenas, you need to do 2 BG before.". Maybe that's exagerated, but nothing stops you to either play solo, or in team. You are free. Nothing forced.

I played mostly solo in Vanilla, surrounded by a lot of people. You don't. That's our choices.

 

Going to a city to find brave heroes and actually going to the battlefield with them, to me, sounds a lot more interesting than opening the UI, selecting the right dropdown element and just like appearing there. They are totally different experiences.

 

 

Well, that's some RP stuff here :D

I can imagine going into a group of brave heroes too when i click and join a group for Antorus HM. Hey, i always put the music loud when i do the levelling on new xpac, so i can enjoy it more. I spend my whole life on Tyr's hand, farming gold (and players) between BGs.

 

People you don't like can make valid points. But sure, whatever.

 

 

He did some valid points. Points than can actually be discussed.

But usually, if you watch this stream, you can't. It's "You agree with him on ALL points, or you're a trash player who never experimented being a real gamer". So... nupe. I usually like debatting, but when it's close-minded like that. Meh.

When the whole Nostalrius thing happened, he was streaming for few days (for donations, let's be honest), and he watched some youtube reactions videos about it.

At one moment, he played Venruki's one. Venruki, if i remember correctly, wasn't against at all. He wasn't for either. He said that ok, why not, but for him, he prefers going forward and see what happened next.

Kungen just said, after closing the video the moment Venruki said "Forward", and all his mindless twitch viewers too, that you can't listen to PvP players, they are not hardcore and real players, and basically our fault that the game is like that.

 

And balance issues are a whole different subject. I'm talking about the overall design trends. Balance could've been great back then and awful 5-viable-classes now, and my opinion wouldn't change at all. What I miss is absence of flying mounts, absence of difficulty modes in dungeons, absence of cross realm play

 

 

I disagree with the balance issue. I think it plays a huge part of the community when it's like it was in Vanilla, which was really imbalanced. For that time, who cared, i didn't care at all, i was in the world of warcraft, and i could play all day doing PvP or whatever. But it plays a lot in a long term. When warrior were the only tank, priest the only healer for example, it creates situation where, as i said, you wait long time just because you want the warrior, and not the poor druid that wanted to help.

 

I agree about flying mount. I like them, but i can easily not used it.

 

Difficulty modes in dungeons? Why not. But dungeons were not that relevant after having raid gear. You just did them for specific component, like stratholme. I'm not a huge PvE guy, but i think people loves the new Mythic+ dungeon mode. I did them casualy, i like them too.

 

Absence of cross-realm play is yes and no for me. Yes because i remember even now, some name from my old realm (La Croisade Ecarlate), some name i saw a lot on the glorius Alterac Valley.

No because of disbalance and dead realm. The same realm i was (LCE) had a huge imbalance as faction, and alliance outnumbered the horde by far. Not really enjoyable in Tarren Mill.

And as you said earlier, people migrate, they change to get close to PvP players, to friends. So the same realm became a desert, hard to find group. And the LFG added in Wotlk helped a lot.


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#16 Thaya

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 10:13 PM

Well, when you try to enter a raid portal, you get a red error text that says "You have to be in a raid group to enter". But ok, regardless of our understanding of the word "forced", my point was that nowadays there's much less reason to actively seek contact with people in the game than there used to be. You can literally have the chat disabled and just use LFD/LFR to see all of the games content. This is totally not what I think an MMORPG should be about. The social aspect is the whole point, it should not be optional. There should be content that you can only explore with a trusty band of friends.

The balance issues are an independent thing. Classes could be the way they are now but in a vanilla context and it'd work all the same (encounters would need tweaking, obviously, but that's still within the scope of balance). I don't think that killing all the social aspects of the game has affected balance in any way. Like, I think the real reason even this site died are the changes that happened in WoD - the addition of the premade finder, removal of battlegroups; and a few things before that too, like removal of team charters. There's just no need for a PvP community on an external site anymore. People used to come here because they wanted to "get into PvP", they came here to make contacts, to join the community. You don't need that shit when you just queue up and inspect peoples ratings in the game UI.

Mythic+ is fine, I guess. What I had in mind about modes is LFR/Normal/Heroic/Mythic for raids. The old model had only one difficulty. That's the way it should be - there should be one difficulty that is tuned for organized groups, period. It should be exclusively a group activity, where you need reliable people that you're ok playing with long(er) term. It shouldn't be doable with a group of 29 strangers like Heroic/Normal currently are. It shouldn't be doable by a 50% AFK group like LFR is. The only thing that was acceptable beyond that is the Ulduar model, where fights had extra conditions that you had to meet for better rewards (hard modes) - but it should still be one instance, not 4 different versions (and lockouts) of the same one.

I think the situation where there are parts of the game you've never seen is absolutely fine and even desirable. Like I mentioned before, the reason I got into PvE was that I wanted to see the content, and joining guilds was the only way to do that at the time. That is a case of the game 'forcing' me to join a player-created social structure of people who also want to see the content. There's some charm in that, really.

I'm not saying Legion is bad btw. I'm just saying what I miss about vanilla, what I think is lacking in the current game compared to its original form.
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#17 Melaniatrump

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 03:11 AM

Well, when you try to enter a raid portal, you get a red error text that says "You have to be in a raid group to enter". But ok, regardless of our understanding of the word "forced", my point was that nowadays there's much less reason to actively seek contact with people in the game than there used to be. You can literally have the chat disabled and just use LFD/LFR to see all of the games content. This is totally not what I think an MMORPG should be about. The social aspect is the whole point, it should not be optional. There should be content that you can only explore with a trusty band of friends.The balance issues are an independent thing. Classes could be the way they are now but in a vanilla context and it'd work all the same (encounters would need tweaking, obviously, but that's still within the scope of balance). I don't think that killing all the social aspects of the game has affected balance in any way. Like, I think the real reason even this site died are the changes that happened in WoD - the addition of the premade finder, removal of battlegroups; and a few things before that too, like removal of team charters. There's just no need for a PvP community on an external site anymore. People used to come here because they wanted to "get into PvP", they came here to make contacts, to join the community. You don't need that shit when you just queue up and inspect peoples ratings in the game UI.Mythic+ is fine, I guess. What I had in mind about modes is LFR/Normal/Heroic/Mythic for raids. The old model had only one difficulty. That's the way it should be - there should be one difficulty that is tuned for organized groups, period. It should be exclusively a group activity, where you need reliable people that you're ok playing with long(er) term. It shouldn't be doable with a group of 29 strangers like Heroic/Normal currently are. It shouldn't be doable by a 50% AFK group like LFR is. The only thing that was acceptable beyond that is the Ulduar model, where fights had extra conditions that you had to meet for better rewards (hard modes) - but it should still be one instance, not 4 different versions (and lockouts) of the same one.I think the situation where there are parts of the game you've never seen is absolutely fine and even desirable. Like I mentioned before, the reason I got into PvE was that I wanted to see the content, and joining guilds was the only way to do that at the time. That is a case of the game 'forcing' me to join a player-created social structure of people who also want to see the content. There's some charm in that, really.I'm not saying Legion is bad btw. I'm just saying what I miss about vanilla, what I think is lacking in the current game compared to its original form.


Literally everything you said is correct. This is why I don’t get the hate on vanilla/bc/wrath (for the most part for wrath at least)
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#18 Siuox

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 07:42 PM

e9d.jpg

worked out better than expected tbh


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#19 Jontex

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 01:58 PM

good night sweet prince


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#20 waniqutie

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:50 PM

Bye bye  :(


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