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Blizzard just recently addressed the new matchmaking system that has been the source of much debate. Without further ado, here is the official word on the intention and state of the system:

Official Blizzard Quote:

We recently introduced a new Arena matchmaking system with the intent of better matching up players against opponents of similar skill level, and to address potential abuses under the old system. We realize that many players have questions regarding the new system, and as such, we would like to provide more insight into the new matchmaking system.

    * First and foremost, the primary goal of the new Arena matchmaking system is to match players against opponents of similar skill, regardless of your or your opponents’ team rating. This means that once an estimated skill level is determined, you will more likely be matched against other players of a similar skill level. Please note that the estimated skill level is constantly being evaluated and will adjust based on each team’s continual performance. Ratings that are won or lost also take into account skill level, so that you will not suffer a high penalty if you lose against a team that is much better than their actual team rating.


    * Another important aspect of this new Arena matchmaking system is a smaller range of maximum rating that can be won or lost. Because of the differences between how the new system assigns rating points at the end of a match, we are still tweaking rating gain versus loss per match to improve the experience.


    * If you were previously ranked with a high skill level and decide to create a new team, it should now be much easier to reach your team’s correct rating. This ensures that players will not feel penalized for moving between teams, and high ranked teams will not feel penalized for trying out new players without much risk to the team rating itself.


    * Finally, the core and fundamental reason for the new Arena matchmaking system is for players to participate in Arena games that are fun. We feel that with this new system, higher ranked players will most likely find the challenges that they seek, newer players will no longer feel that that Arenas are closed to them, and players will not feel as penalized for trying new things in the Arenas.


We like the way that matchmaking works in the new system and feel that it is working as expected. However, we acknowledge that there are some aspects of the way rating is calculated under the new system that could use some tweaking. As with all things, your enjoyment of the game and its systems are very important us, and this system was implemented in an effort to further promote the enjoyment of the Arenas. As always, we welcome your feedback and would constantly be striving to make this system even better.

Edit: QQ Replies will be deleted. Keep it constructive.
Posted in: News

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#1 Pedocows

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 03:04 AM

First

#2 Loqutous

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 03:11 AM

While it's nice that they're actually saying something, how about they answer the real questions of

1.  How does the system evaluate the "contribution" from each player?

2.  What is the win / loss points actually based on right now?  Because right now they are arbitrary.  (or based on the spooky ghost rating that no one knows about).

Yes, I would like to play against people of equal skill, but I would also like to know what it's fundamentally based on.

If they don't want to post the gritty details of the system for fear of it being exploited then it shouldn't be implemented in the first place.

#3 Miirkat

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 04:38 AM

Great they make an official statement, but did they really explain anything we already didn't know/assume?

Sorry, I would like more specifics.

#4 Belarin

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 05:01 AM

Agree with Mirrkat, we need specifics.

Also, I'm confused about this:

[quote] [COLOR="blue"]If you were previously ranked with a high skill level and decide to create a new team, it should now be much easier to reach your team’s correct rating. This ensures that players will not feel penalized for moving between teams, and high ranked teams will not feel penalized for trying out new players without much risk to the team rating itself. [/COLOR][/quote]

Under the old system, it was easy to level a new team as you basically would chain win 16 point games.  How is being immediately matched up with teams you are expected to split games with, and then awarding a smaller number of points per win, expected to help you reach your rating faster?

#5 ChopStyxChic

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 06:56 AM

* If you were previously ranked with a high skill level and decide to create a new team, it should now be much easier to reach your team’s correct rating. This ensures that players will not feel penalized for moving between teams, and high ranked teams will not feel penalized for trying out new players without much risk to the team rating itself.


Really right now it seems hard to level your PR on teams without chain team changing, I am not sure if you have to play an obscene amount of games to get anywhere near what blizzard is trying to do or not :/  If anything your hidden rating should be at least viewable once a week so you can at least understand where you are at, I currently completely dominate on Pr, went from 1500 on a 1747 team - 2k while one guy was at 1930 the other was at 1840 and the team was at 1940, with what I quoted is this trying to tell me that I am skilled or that I am horrible and hence get amazing points?
Killing a healer, even in the absence of crowd control, silences or whatever, still needs to be a viable tactic.
We think cleave teams are too dominant, especially in 2s. We don't think they are as bad in 3s, but the community is very focused on 2s at the moment.

#6 Missekatten

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 07:24 AM

They still need to say how they can give different PR to people on the same team starting the same way.

but 1+ for team swapping

#7 Lysanne

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 10:17 AM

[quote name='Belarin']Under the old system, it was easy to level a new team as you basically would chain win 16 point games.  How is being immediately matched up with teams you are expected to split games with, and then awarding a smaller number of points per win, expected to help you reach your rating faster?[/QUOTE]
Under the current system, as I understand you'll gain an exceptional amount of rating for wins - and loose virtually nothing for a loss - if the game is queing you against "Strong Teams".

Bear in mind I may have gotten it all backwards though - don't quote me on anything.
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#8 Damage

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 12:02 PM

[quote name='Lysanne']Under the current system, as I understand you'll gain an exceptional amount of rating for wins - and loose virtually nothing for a loss - if the game is queing you against "Strong Teams".

Bear in mind I may have gotten it all backwards though - don't quote me on anything.[/QUOTE]

Basically, that's what I got out of that as well!

One can only hope!

#9 wicedin

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 12:50 PM

Nothing about the PR issues = fail

#10 Ilth

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 02:39 PM

so basically my pr is currently being assraped because i chose to play with my RL friends for the first month of arena, so my hidden PR is shit?

PR is determined by team contribution? yeah, because a feral druid and holy pally contribute so much to my team other than healing and obscene damage.

GOOD JOB BLIZZARD KEEP IT UP.
IT'S A TRAP >:O

#11 Khanitus

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 03:08 PM

i remade my 3's with a new druid and we got to 1800, his pr is <150 then the team w/ 100% played, ya great system there blizz

#12 Superior

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 04:32 PM

The funny thing is that no one (almost) has complained about how it matches teams. People seem quite happy with that.

The BIG problem is the PR. My newly dinged pala parnter is playing amazing (for his gear and time playing the class) but he has to go for the hateful stuff just because he never gets any PR.

Blizzard didn't actually address any issue with this, they just stated what everyone already know.

What is needed is a comment about the PR! Why is it so messed up?

#13 Zaci

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 05:52 PM

[quote name='Superior']The funny thing is that no one (almost) has complained about how it matches teams. People seem quite happy with that.

The BIG problem is the PR. My newly dinged pala parnter is playing amazing (for his gear and time playing the class) but he has to go for the hateful stuff just because he never gets any PR.

Blizzard didn't actually address any issue with this, they just stated what everyone already know.

What is needed is a comment about the PR! Why is it so messed up?[/QUOTE]

Yeah indeed, the way it matches up teams are in my opinion atleast a great change and ive noticed the queue times are alot shorter.

But yeah they mentioned they know theres some things that need to be tweaked and i just hope theyve adressed ( ofc they have ) the issue what is going on with personal rating cause as it seems people really would like to know whats the deal with personal going totally different than the team rating
" Never argue with idiots, they pull you down their level and beat you with their experience "

#14 Rapture

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 05:52 PM

Not really any new information, but still an interesting post on PR with a blue response:
[url]http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=7701053467[/url]

[blizz=http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=7701053467&pageNo=9#168]A very nice collection of data and good write-up, Vashardjor. Your numbers appear correct and based on these alone we can see how you (and others) may conclude that the system is not working correctly. However, due to the new system being hidden (kind of the idea, really) there are pieces which you couldn't include in your analysis, and which would likely have led to an entirely different conclusion.

Few system are ever completely set in stone, and we always like to see analysis and data collections and appreciate all the feedback people give about the game systems, and about the PvP rating system in particular. It could definitely be interesting to see how your ratings progress over the next 100 games. Please do keep feedback coming in this thorough and constructive form. [/blizz]

#15 Kluian

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 06:28 PM

If the system actually worked Blizzard would have no reason to have the rating hidden, its that simple.

#16 zajklon

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 07:27 PM

[URL=http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=personalmd3.jpg][IMG]http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2577/personalmd3.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://g.imageshack.us/img230/personalmd3.jpg/1/][IMG]http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/personalmd3.jpg/1/w1280.png[/IMG][/URL]
working as intended

#17 Plomen

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 07:49 PM

It seems the new rating system penalizes two things:

1. Counter comp teams. Teams like Priest/mage in s3-4, that were very effective at destroying certain comps, but had a very difficult time against others (warrior druid for one, lock druid for the other) seem to have no chance, since every loss means their next win is worth fewer points. We are going to see a lot more "cookie cutter" teams that can do solidly against whatever is thrown at them, and have no hard counters.

2. It's going to penalize trying to find new teammates. I've been working through as many people as I can on my new server, trying to find anyone with potential in arena. As such, my personal ratings are getting wildly off mark. At one point, a member of my team was 186PR away from the team rating.

This is definitely going to affect people's willingness to try a new player, or an alt, or a transfer..w/e out in an arena team. If nothing else, it's going to turn arena in to much more of a "grind" since, as the blue poster suggests, you're going to have to play several hundred games for personal ratings to even out.

on the positive side, for very good players, who already have their teammates set from previous seasons and haven't changed mains nor plan to, you should get to top ratings faster.

#18 Dirtydawg

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 09:33 PM

Alright, I understand the hidden rating, and in the long run yes i believe teams will be matched up against similar skilled teams. What I dont get is this.

1. PR, its completely fucked, in every single bracket PR will drop way below team rating, My previous team had to stop playing at 1830 because we were about to drop 150 personal away, We had played 100% of games. This CANNOT be how it is intended, this needs a fix.

2. The amount of points won/loss, In my 5's around 1800, we never win or lose more than about 7. wtf. We would vs a 1500 team (we knew cuz they blew cock) and we would gain 5. and we would vs a very strong team and gain 5 aswell. This isn't right, The amount of points being won makes it nearly impossible to go up or down.

-From what I've heard blizzard made a mistake while implementing hidden PR, they gave all  players a 1500 hidden to start. This may be why low amounts of points are being given from a high team. (TR 2200, hidden rating 1700) = 5 points at 1830. I can see how that will sort itself out eventually, but PR is fucked period. whats going on?

#19 Rapture

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 09:36 PM

There is now a followup blue post addressing PR:

[blizz=http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14697300427&pageNo=10#184]
Because of the way the new system works, there has been some question as to the purpose of each of the different ratings, so here goes:
[LIST]
[*]Team rating: Team rating is the primary measure of a team’s skill during the course of its existence. Titles and arena points are based on team rating.
[*]Personal rating: Personal rating only exists to ensure that a player has participated enough on a team to deserve the benefits of being on that team. When personal rating gets close enough to team rating, we judge it is likely the player deserves the benefits of the team.
[*]Matchmaking rating: This rating exists to ensure quality match-making despite players changing teams. In addition, the theoretical mathematical foundations of the new matchmaking system allows this rating to adapt much faster than team rating and personal rating, making the entire system more correct. In our measurements to date, this rating has been quite precise in predicting the outcomes of future matches.
[/LIST]


[B]One important point to note is that the personal rating currently converges towards the matchmaking rating instead of the team rating, which we realize can cause lot of confusion and frustration. We will be making an adjustment in the near future that will cause the personal rating to converge towards the team rating instead of the matchmaking rating, which should alleviate much of the current concerns. [/B]
[/blizz]

And

[blizz=http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14697300427&pageNo=11#203][quote]This doesn't change the fact that it doesn't make any sense whatsoever for partners on the same team, who have played every single game together, to have different matchmaking ratings. This fact is made quite clear by the diverging personal ratings of all the members of a single team.

Your calculations are erroneous. Check them again, because you obviously never have.[/quote]Partners on the same team can have diverging team ratings if their matchmaking ratings are different. As mentioned above, we will be adjusting it so that personal rating will no longer diverge from team rating and will instead always converge towards it. [/blizz]

#20 Rhinoceros

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 09:42 PM

Pretty much how it works atm:

[B][U]Hidden rating:[/U][/B]
Straightforward; your win, your rating goes up. This is used to match you against other teams with equal hidden rating.


[B][U]Team rating:[/U][/B]
You gain points based on your current team rating and the opponent's hidden rating.
Example:
Your team (1500 rating) has player 1 (2000 hidden rating) and player 2 (1600 hidden rating) with an average of 1800 hidden rating. You get queued up versus another 1800 rated team (because of your hidden rating). You win 20+ points for the match.
Example 2:
Your team (2100 rating) has player 1 (2000 hidden rating) and player 2 (1600 hidden rating) with an average of 1800 hidden rating. You get queued up versus another 1800 rated team. You win 1-2 points for the match.
The effect of this is that your team rating will gravitate towards your hidden rating or actual skill level.


[B][U]Personal rating:[/U][/B]
You gain rating based on your character's hidden rating and the opponent's hidden rating.
What does this mean? You will have to win more than you lose versus equal skilled teams for your PR to raise. If you play with people who have worse hidden rating than you, your personal rating will go down more than it would have with an equal skilled player. The opposite is also true: if you play with someone who has higher hidden rating than you, your personal rating will climb quicker.
Example:
You make a new team (1500 team rating, 1500 personal ratings) with player 1 (2000 hidden rating) and player 2 (1600 hidden rating) and you get queued up versus an 1800 rated team (because of your average hidden rating). You play 10 games going 5-5 with this team. Your team rating goes up to 1550. Player 1's personal rating goes down to 1470. Player 2's personal rating goes up to 1530
Example 2:
You make a new team (1500 team, 1500 personal rating). Both players have 1800 hidden rating and they are queued versus other 1800 teams. You play 10 games versus the other team, going 5-5.
The team rating ends at 1550. Both your personals end at 1500 rating.

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