Talk to me about the Archmage and Engineer

[Levitron]

I stopped playing WoW a while ago, and have zero desire to play any of my toons, but I'm starting to feel the itch with WAR. I have a stupid amount of PvP and raiding experience with my war, priest, and druid.

I want to get away from the "warrior" archetype, as some of the most fun I had in WoW was playing my druid as a Boomkin.

I've been hearing that the most versatile caster-types, for lack of a better phrase, are the Archmage and Engineer, with Archmage being 50/50 healer/dps and the Engineer being a bit of everything. I've also considered the Rune Priest, but am not sure I want to play a pure healer.

I can only get so much information from forums (what others do you guys read?), and generally assume most of what I read is full of stupid thanks to the WoW general forums.

How do these two classes function in small group PvP? Do they have enough CC and abilities to make out-playing my opponent a very real possibility? Or is it a lot of lolRNG?

[Magdain]

Archmage doesn't play as advertised. The best balance I've gotten is 1:4 damage to healing, and that's not all too often. It's pretty much a pure healer archtype with an AP drain spell. If you're not tied to Order then roll a shaman. It's the equivalent but it has better tactics and base spells.

Engineer is mediocre. Their biggest CC asset is Barbed Wire (Frost Nova equiv with a 50% chance to break on direct damage), 2 other classes on your faction have this. One of them is the bright wizard which have the same armor class as you and do triple your damage. They can basically play mid range grenade damage or long range rifle damage, and they're mostly AOE damage dealers - A lot of dots, but none of them really tick for much. They also get some things like a low cooldown grenade that knocks back your target and a land mine that knocks down targets within ~20 feet (similar to a hunter trap, but you can target anywhere on the ground and place it a decent range away wherever you want). You can spec into AOE pull-in/snares.


Don't bother rolling a class based on CC. There is no poly/fear/sap/blind. There's only silences, knockdowns, knockbacks, disarms, and a few stuns but those are rare. Once you get hit with one of those any other similar effects are reduced by 99% duration for like .. I dunno 20 seconds?

There isn't really RNG though. There's very few proc effects, and any proc effects there are are 25-50% chance and they're not game breaking procs. Except Witch Elves, but witch elves are a fucking joke and need to be nerfed into the ground. Coincidentally if you don't like dying to witch elves in 7 seconds don't roll either of these classes until it's fixed.

[keLston]

It really is sort of sad that they turned Archmage into a healer class basically since, as I understood it, in the Warhammer RPG world, Archmages were pretty pro magic slingers.

[Arirang]

Engies have a rough beginning and they shape up to be quite alright.
They do AOE damage, I've seen numerous Engies pulling incredible numbers in BGs.
This is same for magus which are the mirror classes of Engies.
It really depends on the player.

Archmages are healers.
Their itemization is fucking awful..
However, they probably have the most potent heals, but they're the squishiest of 3 available healers.

It might be the quality of players in our server, but I rarely come out of BG healing less than 2~3x more than other healers in BG.

I do find it hard for me to survive pressure though.
However, this may be related to how bad I am at the game, /shrug.


The game is still young to a point where they weren't able to balance healers' utility yet.
Healers are healers.
DPS is DPS.
It's pretty one dimensional right now much like the beginning of WoW.

Right now, WoW healers can contribute considerable amount of pressure when needed.
Provide the offensive utility as needed and whatnot.
These are assets to the class, and it makes them unique.

But in WAR, these are worthless..
considering how Sorcs and Wizards can crit for 1200 easy.
Your 120 damaging spell on 2sec cast is really trivial.
Your DoTs tick for cute damage..

I've seen some high level archmage go pure int gear for damage and specced so.
He would sometimes pull interesting numbers, and in other games, really bad.
The thing is, in same game, many levels lower than him, I'd pull 3x healing value of his damage.

If you want to do damage.
Roll a class without a heal is my recommendation until the game becomes more complex.

Closest thing you'll get to damage and healing class is warrior priest.
But the best I've seen is 1:1 ratio of 30k dmg and 30k healing.
Where I've seen upto 80k healing in same BG by a lower level player.

[Arirang]

Oh yeah... erm, the biggest asset to Engi class is not its root CC.
It's its pull CC. They have this ability(when specced) that can pull everyone within 65 ft. to the engi.

You can imagine how powerful that can be when you can pull everyone into engi.
Then AOE them. There's a video out there of these.

[Duckers]

It's its pull CC. They have this ability(when specced) that can pull everyone within 65 ft. to the engi.

You can imagine how powerful that can be when you can pull everyone into engi.
Then AOE them. There's a video out there of these.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Uw4wPhxtV4

You can totally see me naked too~

[Teddymonster]

Tonight I saw an archmage lead a scenario with 42k dmg, plus he had 20k healing. I don't understand how, but I guess its possible for them to dps some way. Isn't an archmage exactly the same as the shaman career/ability wise?

[Arirang]

42k dmg and 20k healing is like..okay.. not great.
I mean, you see some sorcs and BWs farting 70~80k dmg in 5~6min games.
how long was the game anyway, at what level.

[Duckers]

Isn't an archmage exactly the same as the shaman career/ability wise?
Almost. Though if he's topping damage your team must be aroarioweqhejkwheqwjhewjqkeqweqwBAD.

[Arirang]

Shaman should do better than archmage I think.
Archmage's endgame tactics are all bugged and not working as what tooltip indicates.
Shaman has better defensive tactics and their AP drain is actually an AP drain vs. AP burn for archmages.

[Levitron]

I'd like to stay Order simply because they're outnumbered on RvR servers, which seems to attract generally better players.

From the way it sounds, I should probably level a BW to rapetrain at the moment, and keep leveling another couple toons in my off-time as the game progresses.

[Final]

Engys aren't that bad. Take a bit of coordination, but if you're tinkerer you can get a bunch of engys to pull the enemy into an area and then AoE the crap out of them with BWs fucking them REALLY fast.

[Teddymonster]

42k dmg and 20k healing is like..okay.. not great.
I mean, you see some sorcs and BWs farting 70~80k dmg in 5~6min games.
how long was the game anyway, at what level.


it was a 7 min mourkain.

Almost. Though if he's topping damage your team must be aroarioweqhejkwheqwjhewjqkeqweqwBAD.

my team is always afdsagfagafdgfadBAD. I'll have 70k healing and 2nd in line will be some baddie with 25k :rolleyes:

[Krigare]

it was a 7 min mourkain.



my team is always afdsagfagafdgfadBAD. I'll have 70k healing and 2nd in line will be some baddie with 25k :rolleyes:

Pretty much, but healing morkain is ridiculously easy. Runepriest/zealot own in late T2.

[Teddymonster]

Pretty much, but healing morkain is ridiculously easy. Runepriest/zealot own in late T2.

yup, but the baddie zealots don't realize they can keep 10 guys up at once with their 3 hots and try to do damage instead. "grats on your 6k dmg there guy..." ><

[Final]

Do zealots get something in tier 3 that's better than RP? I've always been #1 every game and occasionally I get some zealots in tier 3 that have been outhealing me. Just kind of curious.

[Teddymonster]

Do zealots get something in tier 3 that's better than RP? I've always been #1 every game and occasionally I get some zealots in tier 3 that have been outhealing me. Just kind of curious.

nope, we both have 1 hot, 1 instant/hot, 1 instant, 1 aoe hot, 1 long crappy cast and then the same rank 1 morale heal and our drains from the career tree in T3 are the same too. The lack of uniqueness is kind of stupid imo.

[Final]

nope, we both have 1 hot, 1 instant/hot, 1 instant, 1 aoe hot, 1 long crappy cast and then the same rank 1 morale heal and our drains from the career tree in T3 are the same too. The lack of uniqueness is kind of stupid imo.

Well it'd be kind of hard to balance classes when all of the classes change so much. I don't know what these drains are that you're talking about. I don't have any drains!

I really wish I had a flash heal. It sucks putting up hots and then trying to cast my 3 second cast all the time. Rune of Mending fucking BLOWS for mana efficiency and does like 0 healing.

[Levidian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Uw4wPhxtV4

You can totally see me naked too~

That looks retarded not as in cool as in retarded game play.

[Final]

Surprisingly it's actually fun as hell to knock people into the lava. Then I nerdrage when I get knocked in :(

[Teddymonster]

Well it'd be kind of hard to balance classes when all of the classes change so much. I don't know what these drains are that you're talking about. I don't have any drains!

I really wish I had a flash heal. It sucks putting up hots and then trying to cast my 3 second cast all the time. Rune of Mending fucking BLOWS for mana efficiency and does like 0 healing.

ya, the drain is in your career tree, the rune of fortune thingy. but I just noticed zealots have 2 of them in their tree and the RP only has 1. 1 is crappy like rune of fortune but the other 1 (transference) last 60s and seems pro =)

[Duckers]

I really wish I had a flash heal. It sucks putting up hots and then trying to cast my 3 second cast all the time. Rune of Mending fucking BLOWS for mana efficiency and does like 0 healing.
Grungi's Gift is nice, if you're spec'd for it. Got like, +27% crit to it; and with AP regen on heal crits -- it's pretty hot potatos.

Edit: Rune of Fortune blows and is a waste of points.

[Magdain]

Grungi's Gift is nice, if you're spec'd for it. Got like, +27% crit to it; and with AP regen on heal crits -- it's pretty hot potatos.

Edit: Rune of Fortune blows and is a waste of points.

AP regen on heal crits is terrible. It's no 160 ap as the tooltip says. It's 10ap/sec for ~4 seconds.

[Levitron]

Since I'm sure you're all awaiting my update, I decided on Bright Wizard.

This guy is a LOL rape train with no brakes. Bwaaaaaahahahahahhahaa I haven't had so much fun abusing people since... well... ever.

[Duckers]

AP regen on heal crits is terrible. It's no 160 ap as the tooltip says. It's 10ap/sec for ~4 seconds.
I know, but it's still more refunded than used, and still better than Rune of Fortune as a bread and butter healing spell.

[Final]

RoF is shit. I am specced up Grimnir so all I do is spam rune of preservation/rune of serenity/master rune of adamant, and occasionally my 3 second heal/morale.

[Magdain]

I know, but it's still more refunded than used, and still better than Rune of Fortune as a bread and butter healing spell.

It returns like 5 more ap than it costs? and it's not enough hps to keep anything up

[Duckers]

It returns like 5 more ap than it costs? and it's not enough hps to keep anything up
10, crits for a good 650. It's still better 10x than RoF -- which is the point I'm trying to make.

[gagegg]

http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cryosm005ua1.jpg

Engineers are pretty fun. Have yet to experience high end play, but at 20-21 they have a lot of grenades, which can do a shitload of aoe or single target damage. Pretty decent class, starts off slow as others have said.

[fuuga]

Ya, I think everyone keeps saying engis suck because they all spec for Electromagnet(the pull thing) instead of one of the actual damage trees. Then they complain about lacking damage. Leveling one now to take a break from SM and it's pretty fun.

[Magdain]

Ya, I think everyone keeps saying engis suck because they all spec for Electromagnet(the pull thing) instead of one of the actual damage trees. Then they complain about lacking damage. Leveling one now to take a break from SM and it's pretty fun.

If you only run one engineer then the only reason to take him is electromagnet. If you take two then you can spare a grenadier for napalm.

[Krigare]

People expect BW numbers out of engineer, SW, SH, and magus and that is just not going to happen, especially before 20.

[fuuga]

If you only run one engineer then the only reason to take him is electromagnet. If you take two then you can spare a grenadier for napalm.


I agree. Just saying that people spec down to Electromagnet cause it's super-powerful, but doing this gives them bad personal damage so they complain.