Do you regret buying WAR? Is it fun?

[Ironmang]

Oopps sry about title meant is it worth it >.< repeat thread much my bad!

Considering WOTLK is coming out in a lil over a month and Warhammar is still no where near as polished as WoW (from what i've read) I cannot decide if I want to try War. So heres a few questions:

Is there anyway to just trial War?

Do you regret buying War?

Do you see it as another AoC?

WoW combat is amazing in my opinion its super engaging and requires fast reacting and constant button mashing which makes it very fun, Does WAR have an awesome combat system as well?

I really LOVE going into av with me and just a healer and taking on 10 people is there any way i can do this in WAR?

Most fun ive had is in AV when its 50 pts left for both sides and we fight 40 vs 40 scared to lose even one unit until we all bum rush in together as one. Not the crappy one by one rush in die and rez and rush in again. that feeling of one army vs one army. Does war have this and is it gratifying? How rare is it to experience something like this.

I hate farming gold for gems and enchants every fucken time i get a new piece of gear, do you think War has pointless farming like this?

And finally. My friends still play wow (they like pve lol?), I have 6 months sub that doesnt end til january, and id have to drop 50 bucks and probably some subscription cash to start playing War. Should i start playing it, is it omgod this blows wow out of the water fun?

[keLston]

No, it doesn't blow WoW out of the water. Do I regret spending 50 bucks? Eh. It's something to do until the expansion. Thats like what 25 bucks a month total since you get like 2.5 months til xpac. That's the cost of 2 shitty movies here in NYC and i'm assuming that Warhammer will at least provide me with a total of 10 hours of entertainment so it equals out and saves me from seeing bad movies.

[Teddymonster]

Don't listen to Ralin, he's just a blizzard fan boy that feels the need to shit on every thread on this warhammer board.

In comparison to WoW I think the only thing WoW has over WAR it is has better animations so the pvp is cleaner/crisper and it has the arena format for a competitive and ranked aspect. But since arena is slowing turning into a joke and looks like an absolute embarassment in wotlk who gives a shit really? WAR is also very group dependant. If you don't have a group of people to constantly play with I wouldn't get it, because it is a snooze if you're runnin solo a lot.

And one of the best things about is there doesn't seem to be any long pointless farming as you asked. I haven't gotten to any profession grind yet or anything but just doing a public quest there seems to be endless mats for professions dropping and you're getting gear upgrades and xp while doing these so you get many thins accomplished at once.

[tofu]

n comparison to WoW I think the only thing WoW has over WAR it is has better animations so the pvp is cleaner/crisper

Do you think this is something that can be cleaned up with future patching? If not, this is a major downer for me in terms of desire to play. I love what mythic is trying to do with warhammer, but if the actual gameplay sucks then it's all for nothing.

[Viia]

Don't regret buying it, but not paying past the free month.

Decent game, fun, buggy, everything you would expect really, but it doesn't blow WoW out of the water by any means. If your friends are in WoW, I would say stick with WoW.

[Viia]

Do you think this is something that can be cleaned up with future patching? If not, this is a major downer for me in terms of desire to play. I love what mythic is trying to do with warhammer, but if the actual gameplay sucks then it's all for nothing.


This was the primary reason I've decided not to subscribe... the game doesn't feel crisp and the BGs are all relatively buggy. If they fix it before the free month is up there is a chance I'll continue playing.

It's a good breather though, fun for a bit.

[Felanor]

Don't regret buying it, but not paying past the free month.

Decent game, fun, buggy, everything you would expect really, but it doesn't blow WoW out of the water by any means. If your friends are in WoW, I would say stick with WoW.

So you play on a server where everyone has reached 40 and laying waste to cities to provide such a good recommendation?

[Meugen]

animations/buggynesss is fixable.

game style is not (ie...wow's shitty pvp system is not fixable)

[keLston]

Don't listen to Ralin, he's just a blizzard fan boy that feels the need to shit on every thread on this warhammer board.

In comparison to WoW I think the only thing WoW has over WAR it is has better animations so the pvp is cleaner/crisper and it has the arena format for a competitive and ranked aspect. But since arena is slowing turning into a joke and looks like an absolute embarassment in wotlk who gives a shit really? WAR is also very group dependant. If you don't have a group of people to constantly play with I wouldn't get it, because it is a snooze if you're runnin solo a lot.

And one of the best things about is there doesn't seem to be any long pointless farming as you asked. I haven't gotten to any profession grind yet or anything but just doing a public quest there seems to be endless mats for professions dropping and you're getting gear upgrades and xp while doing these so you get many thins accomplished at once.

Have you even played past Tier 2?

The endless grinding is only endless grinding if you get tired of doing Scenarios. You have to grind your xp and you have to grind your renown rank, and in most cases for reasonably acquirable best in slot item, you have to grind your Influence.

The profession system is a fairly annoying grind mostly due to the fact that server economies are still nonexistent so you have to rely on grinding mats yourself or from people you know. Talisman making is probably the most annoying profession to try to grind since it relies on like 4 other gathering professions and the stuff you make aren't permanent until you get up the skill fairly high. I think my guy hit like 130 talisman making and the stuff still only lasts about 8 hours but it isn't that big a deal since a lot of the stuff that you could get that actually has talisman slots aren't worth using at least at lv34. Maybe no one has gotten talisman making high enough for some amazing +stats or something because you give up a ton of stats for a talisman slot.

As far as that whole 40v40 fighting, scared to lose one unit etc, War doesn't have it. No mass organized PvP i've had in Warhammer so far that couldn't be described as an endless graveyard zerg. Maybe it's bugged or maybe it's not implemented yet, I don't know, but capturing the guild standard of an opposite faction guild doesn't do jack shit except give you a screenshot while the guild you rocked just pays for 2g to buy another one.

So you play on a server where everyone has reached 40 and laying waste to cities to provide such a good recommendation?

If you've ever done organized keep battles, you'd realize why there are a lot of things that need to be fixed before people reach those city raids.

[Teddymonster]

its a fun game, let it lie man, damn...

[Alphatier]

Reputation is endless grinding, honor is endless grinding, daily quests for gold is endless grinding, leveling is endless grinding, badges of justice are endless grinding ..

hell, why do you still play a game if you think it's a grind, just stop playing it.

War isn't a grind, and yes I am well past Tier 2 thank you.

[Disstance]

I regret picking it up.


It's just sort of boring. i'm bored with WoW too, but at least I find 10 games of arena a week mildly entertaining. WAR doesn't even really live up to that, IMO.

[Duckers]

MMOs have grinding - deal with it.

Don't regret buying it, I've got more things to worry about if I can't afford to purchase a videogame. It's fun so far, whether it holds up for as long as WoW did - who knows? Whether I'll go back to WoW on expansion? Depends on how end-game turns out and/or what my guild/friends do.

Was almost at T4 before our guild rerolled.

[wildmongrell]

Very fun indeed i rolled a healer and i have a tank who just destories kids in packs of 5 or less. thats 2v5 and we win because we dont suck. You can tell that there is a good amount of skill because of the way that action points work and how EVERYTHING IS LOS even those small rocks ^^. World pvp is so much fun. I go from 50 frames to about 10 in the keeps when there packed with 150 people total! thats fun shit right there.
Gotta hold the keeps to get your gear and stuff very nice. Only issue is the massive inbalance i find. 1-3.4 ratio on my server :( just get zerged down in the keeps.

[Jedden]

It's okay, I intend to keep playing.
If you expect something of a wow killer you will most likely be dissapointed, WAR still has it's bugs here and there it needs to work out.

Basicly like many said: You can fix bugs, you can't change the gamestyle.

WoW is trying hard to be the best at everything while WAR has a clear cut out goal of focusing on pvp.

Bottomline: If you like the way WoW is, don't expect the same and better with WAR.

[Viia]

So you play on a server where everyone has reached 40 and laying waste to cities to provide such a good recommendation?


What does this have to do with what I said?

Did you qualify your response with the scope of your experience? Your level, play experience, expectations, how the game measured up to those expectations, metrics, and so forth? No, because this is an internet forum.

My response was simple: The game is fun, but not amazing. There are a lot of bugs. Do I have to play to level 40 to make that statement? Do I have to wait until the entire server hits 40 to make that statement? Pretty sure I don't.

Everyone is talking about solid mechanics, etc etc... the game doesn't feel like it has solid mechanics to me, but I didn't say "WOW, THIS SUCKS- OMG I PRESS MY MORALE ABILITY 32 TIMES AND IT DOESNT WORK (great mechanic), I FIRE FIREBALLS AND I CANT TELL WHERE MY CAST BAR ACTUALLY IS BECAUSE I HAVE MELEE HITTING ME AND IT CAN'T EVEN UPDATE PROPERLY (great mechanic)- EVERY SCENARIO IN T1-T3 HAS SOME PROBLEM WITH IT OMG, NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT T3 SCENARIOS JUST DONT POP (great... something) OMG I STAND IN FRONT OF SOMEONE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS REVOLUTIONARY COLLISION DETECTION AND IT JUST MAKES THEM GHOST AROUND (great mechanic)" I said "It's fun, but I'm not going to play past the free month."

Happy?

[Cuddlybunnyz]

What does this have to do with what I said?

Did you qualify your response with the scope of your experience? Your level, play experience, expectations, how the game measured up to those expectations, metrics, and so forth? No, because this is an internet forum.

My response was simple: The game is fun, but not amazing. There are a lot of bugs. Do I have to play to level 40 to make that statement? Do I have to wait until the entire server hits 40 to make that statement? Pretty sure I don't.

Everyone is talking about solid mechanics, etc etc... the game doesn't feel like it has solid mechanics to me, but I didn't say "WOW, THIS SUCKS- OMG I PRESS MY MORALE ABILITY 32 TIMES AND IT DOESNT WORK (great mechanic), I FIRE FIREBALLS AND I CANT TELL WHERE MY CAST BAR ACTUALLY IS BECAUSE I HAVE MELEE HITTING ME AND IT CAN'T EVEN UPDATE PROPERLY (great mechanic)- EVERY SCENARIO IN T1-T3 HAS SOME PROBLEM WITH IT OMG, NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT T3 SCENARIOS JUST DONT POP (great... something) OMG I STAND IN FRONT OF SOMEONE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS REVOLUTIONARY COLLISION DETECTION AND IT JUST MAKES THEM GHOST AROUND (great mechanic)" I said "It's fun, but I'm not going to play past the free month."

Happy?

feeling kinda the same thing

[Hoshi]

Wait, wait, wait, so you're telling me that WAR, a fresh released MMO, isn't as fine tuned and bug-fixed as WoW?

Man, obv not worth playing. I guess the Devs for WAR should've put the game through a 4 year beta.

[Viia]

Wait, wait, wait, so you're telling me that WAR, a fresh released MMO, isn't as fine tuned and bug-fixed as WoW?

Man, obv not worth playing. I guess the Devs for WAR should've put the game through a 4 year beta.

I don't get why people make this argument over and over. Don't you realize that whatever game is released has to be better than what's on the market already?

When WoW came out it was buggy and lacking content: True
When WoW came out it was STILL more polished and had a better play flow then any MMO on the market: True
Result: Hugely Popular

When AoC/War/Whatever came out it was buggy and lacking content: True
When AoC/War/Whatever came out it was more polished and had a better play flow then any MMO on the market: False
Result: See where this is going?

I'm not a WoW fanboy or a War hater. I played AOC to 80 and I've played War for awhile through beta and retail and I enjoyed my time for the most part playing both games, but I'm also a realist and I see the novelty in both games for what it is. The frustration that comes along with purchasing a Collector's Edition game only to feel disappointed by the resulting gameplay is not a great thing to deal with, and doesn't really lend well to longevity even if it is temporarily fun/new.

The name of the game in MMOs is subscriptions, not boxes sold.

[Hosebeast]

I don't get why people make this argument over and over. Don't you realize that whatever game is released has to be better than what's on the market already?

When WoW came out it was buggy and lacking content: True
When WoW came out it was STILL more polished and had a better play flow then any MMO on the market: True
Result: Hugely Popular


When AoC/War/Whatever came out it was buggy and lacking content: True
When AoC/War/Whatever came out it was more polished and had a better play flow then any MMO on the market: False
Result: See where this is going?

It is better though just not in the polish category. The base mechanics and the direction/audience of the game is so much better than WoW. Patches don't fix base mechanics.

edit: It doesn't need to be bug free on release to be good or competitive in the market. No mmo's are bug free on release. We aren't talking about a single player game here that you normally buy in the store. MMO.. pretty sure every MMO to date starts the same way.

[Viia]

Man, obv not worth playing. I guess the Devs for WAR should've put the game through a 4 year beta.

War was in closed beta for at least 1 year and 3 months.

[Viia]

It is better though just not in the polish category. The base mechanics and the direction/audience of the game is so much better than WoW. Patches don't fix base mechanics.

edit: It doesn't need to be bug free on release to be good or competitive in the market. No mmo's are bug free on release. We aren't talking about a single player game here that you normally buy in the store. MMO.. pretty sure every MMO to date starts the same way.

Yeah, I agree. Games don't need to be bug free on release, but they need to be better than what's on the market.

What mechanics are you referring to that are better than WoW (or any other MMO)? The combat mechanics are almost identical to every other MMO I've played. Are you referring strictly to the statement that they want the games focus to be RvR or is there some other distinct feature that's drawn you in?

I'm interested... because like some people here, I've spent a lot of time on War, and like I said before... I would play it if the gameplay was crisp and/or the combat mechanics were something special, so if they patch that in soon I may continue to play past level 32.

[Hosebeast]

I'm happy to see a game that moves away from disabling crowd control no chain stuns/silences/fears. The game is very reaction based and isn't too stupid fast combat like WoW where shit is gibbed.

I play from a tank perspective. I am able to redirect damage from my guard target. I can constantly switch my guard toward to adjust to what the enemy is doing from my Witch Hunter/White Lion buddy to my Healer. I get a knockback to push/divide into enemy clusters. I have reactive abilities like juggernaut that drops a snare/root/stun on a 60sec cd and need to be managed(I think all melee gets something like this also). I can use Hold the Line to protect teammates behind me so we can move up as a group (stacks with other tanks). Taunt actually working in pvp. I can do more damage to a target that refuses to acknowledge I exist and it works as an interrupt. They don't allow mods to give me a cast bar. I have to use my eyes and watch their movement patterns to determine when they are going to cast and if they are casting. My snares aren't spammable like WoW. I can have 2 snares up total because of the cooldown. If i'm taking a lot of damage I can alter my balance rotation to mitigate damage. The game can be so much more involving and so far appears to have a much higher skill cap.

Maybe it is just the tank class that comes off this way. Anyone else care to comment on their class?

After doing a lot of elder beta testing I really like the feeling that my voice is being heard. When you submit information/suggestions and you get quick and reasonable explanations it is good to know that the game has potential to travel in the correct direction and the developers really do care. This game has a PvP focus and don't have to deal with abilities revolving around PvE.

Maybe I'm just tired of WoW and looking for a change, but as it stands I'm really loving WAR. After playing Wrath and realizing what is coming I just want nothing to do with WoW anymore.

31/26 Swordmaster - Dark Crag

[Viia]

From a warrior-priest perspective.

I heal very similarly to how I would with a druid. The class almost feels like a feral/resto druid mix pre BC (no meaningful CC.)

(Regrowth/Rejuv) being the two WP heals literally identical almost. One with a heal + hot, one just a hot, the durations are just slightly swapped.

Divine Assault being (Lifebloom), with the benefit/drawback of dealing decent but still ignorable damage.

I don't knock anyone anywhere.

My reactive abilities are detaunt (Barkskin) and cleanse (Curse Curse on a 10s CD.)

I can snare on a 10s CD, and keep someone perma-snared. Some tanks can spam snares (Ironbreaker) to the point that you will stay snared without it dropping, at least from my experience. I know for sure some classes can, engineers for example with spanner swipe.

I don't have mods to show who is targeting who, so when a sorceress is casting into the group of 15 players I'm standing with... I have no idea who to pre-HoT which is the basis of my class.

It really feels a lot like playing a feral/resto druid mixed with no cyclone. I can solo champions 3+ levels higher than me and heroes 2-3 levels below me (though the last hero I did took 9 minutes to kill.)

Maybe this is why I'm not feeling that warm and fuzzy that a lot of people are seeming to get? I put out insane healing, but it's just not satisfying... really. Not sure why. Feels exactly like leveling a druid (even while BG grinding) which as many of you know is terribly unfun.

[Cuddlybunnyz]

this is my perspective and keep in mind i am level 20/18 and not some expert. i don't come from a rich mmo background, the first one i played was WoW so i don't know anything about Dark age, lineage, ultima etc. any of the old games with keep raiding and things like that, so my historical mmo perspective is lacking.

about the caster mechanics, at this point they are nothing revolutionary imo, its just frustrating because of the animations and inability to compensate/know when a spell is actually going to fire off. comparing what the healing classes have to each other, there is very little uniqueness in terms of baseline healing abilities, everyone has the same few basic heals(hot, regrowth, big heal), a cleanse, and a couple classes have a shield or a mending/group heal with different support skills. playing archmage feels like playing a priest in wow with a few debuff spells basically. in a scenario i just run around spamming my heals and shield, dropping debuff when i can and use rank 1 renown when someone is low. i can't comment on the melee class mechanics but i definitely feel there is just something lacking for casters altogether after seeing what tanks do. i heal like a champion, its not like archmages suck and i am just bitching about the class i chose but like evii said it is just not satisfying for some reason, and i can't put my finger on it.

there are many good/interesting mechanics in the game like the detaunt ability, tank protection, and things of that sort, but i just find myself focusing more on the few things that are bothering me than the innovative things, but that's just my opinion.

all in all, what it really comes down to is personal enjoyment. its cool for a while, but i feel like something is awry for me personally when i am able to level by pvping but I still do not feel like doing it all that much at level 20. i don't regret buying it because 50 bucks isn't all that much money for some amount of hours of entertainment, but in the current state of the game i don't see myself busting my ass to hit 40 so i can take part in any endgame stuff, its just not all that appealing.

with that said, i have played wrath beta but i am not exactly jumping for joy over that either. i'll probably move back to consoles and replay some classics until wrath goes live to decide if its worth playing.

If anyone is interested in MAMEing some classic arcade games hit me up brosefs

[keLston]

They don't allow mods to give me a cast bar. I have to use my eyes and watch their movement patterns to determine when they are going to cast and if they are casting.

I'd like them to fix the animations so I could actually use that sort of thing reliably.

I jumped off my Sorc and decided to try a melee class. The game's latency compensation needs a lot of work. I spent 4 minutes chasing around a zealot. If I tried to hit a melee ability, he was too far away even though I was literally humping him (like i was actually colliding into him) so all I could really try to do was do my snare shot that 40% snares when shooting something in the back and getting maybe a hit or two if he stopped moving to cast. That made it sort of hard to take out a team's healer since apparently I needed to be closer than colliding into him to hit him.

Melee slush seems as bad as WoW's. I also enjoy being melee'd by other people that are apparently too far away for me to melee back.

A latency meter would be nice so I could tell if it was me lagging or the other person lagging. I don't think I was lagging given the fairly quick responses to skill activations but i don't know.

I'm also worried about stat growth and itemization for some classes. At this point, Witch Hunter stands out after i thought about it for a while.

You have your mainstay normal attacks being melee -> thus strength. But then you have your finishers being range -> thus ballistics skill. And from what i've seen so far, there aren't any items that have both Ballistics and Strength so you have to get one at the cost of the other. I hope not to turn into another multiple stat gimp (lol agi and int for hunters, or the paladin class in Diablo 2).

Also, since you play a Swordbreaker -> what is the tanking stat? Is it Init or Toughness?

[Felanor]

Melee slush seems as bad as WoW's. I also enjoy being melee'd by
Also, since you play a Swordbreaker -> what is the tanking stat? Is it Init or Toughness?

Initiative is like resiliance, but only with % reduction, not damage.

[keLston]

Initiative is like resiliance, but only with % reduction, not damage.

I could have sworn Initiative also added avoidance.

[mezor]

I could have sworn Initiative also added avoidance.

Nah, it only reduces crit%.

Though I do have to say I there are alot of similarities between WoW and WAR, I do feel that I like playing WAR more then WoW, leveling up is DEFINETELY more fun then WoW's leveling.

You can play for short times and still get stuff accomplished, this totally sealed the deal for me since I'm going casual for WAR.
I'm playing a level 32 DoK atm, my awesome healing and the incredible synergy a melee healer have with a tank is completely amazing and you can easily do 2v7 if you know what you're doing.
It actually DOES remind alot about the druid since most of our heals are HoTs, we dont really have druid mobility though which has been replaced by the second best armor ingame.
You get around 20-25% armor dmg mitigation at 40 so with guard you can get 75% less dmg mitigation, it's quite amazing.
You cannot be defensive however because of the soul essence mechanic (which I love).

My playstyle depends on the situation really. With guard I can be incredibly aggresive and harass any clothie, though without guard I tend to be more in the middle more focusing on healing and then following the melee zerg to restock on SE.
That rank 2 morale that does the 5 sec aoe stun is also amazing, I always use it because it can totally fuck up any group within those 5 seconds.

While a PQ group were running around in the RvR area (bored) we found this huge order group twice as many as us, we were about 18 and they looked like 40, but yeah we were 2 tanks, 3 healers (1sham 2dok) and the rest were witch elves/marauders/sorcys.
So, we were all on vent discussing farts while completely destroying clothies while suddenly the 2 DoK's decided to time the rank 2 morale aoe stun. We literally zerged 3/4ths of the group within 7 secs, friggin epic.

We don't really have that much "control" abilities, only one knockback and one silence. But we got shitload of cripples, so it ain't too bad to be a DoK.

I want to see more DPS oriented melee healers as it seems they all want to heal. You could be able to pump out 45(48 if you got the renown tac for that race)% more damage with tactics.

[keLston]

Nah, it only reduces crit%.

Well, just entered the game.

Mouseover tooltip for Initiative says:

"Increases your chance to evade attacks, detect stealthed enemies, and lowers your chance to be critcally hit."

Yea, the critically is spelled wrong on tooltip. But it seems to be the avoidance stat too.

[Vadren]

All that other stuff doesn't matter.

The bottom line is that WAR isn't frustrating to play the way WoW is. I don't get stunlocked from 100%-0% without getting to do anything, I don't get CC'd for 80% of a match, I don't lose or die to random bullshit that is totally game changing, I don't get interrupted constantly making it impossible to fight back while I die or my teammate dies. I don't' feel like I'm being punished just by playing the game.

[swordscream]

controls at times feel sluggish and unresponsive. its frustrating sometimes. You sometimes see your animation go off but the move didnt actually work.

[keLston]

All that other stuff doesn't matter.

The bottom line is that WAR isn't frustrating to play the way WoW is. I don't get stunlocked from 100%-0% without getting to do anything, I don't get CC'd for 80% of a match, I don't lose or die to random bullshit that is totally game changing, I don't get interrupted constantly making it impossible to fight back while I die or my teammate dies. I don't' feel like I'm being punished just by playing the game.

You've really never gotten knockdown locked before or have your healer gotten knockbacked right off the cliff?

People say there aren't spammable snares and stuff but that's pretty bs too. Pretty sure Witch Hunter/Elf can spam 40% snare on you if you're tryin to run away.

These things are even more true for people just starting since the lower bracket has a few pretty annoying issues. Some gets addressed as you level but seeing the WoW frustration and just seeing it all over again in Warhammer for your first 11 levels makes it pretty hard to convince people not already sold.

What also remains to be seen is how fun it still is a week or two from now when more people actually hit 40 and start to have nothing to do but the same scenarios waiting for enough people to try for a capital city.

[Hosebeast]

spammable snares refers to snaring like tons of targets

like in WoW a war can snare like all 5 ppl in a 5v5

[Alphatier]

Ralin you seem to have resorted to arguments that any game will have.

How fun will it be for a WoW player leveling ahead of everyone else and not being able to raid because everyone else is still 75? Not fun. Besides that, there are hundreds of people in the late 20s on my server, so those up top only really have to wait a week and then it will all start. But sure you must make a big problem out of it, which there is none.

What annoying issues does T1 have besides level imbalance? Some classes get some skills, some get others, maybe later. That's just the same with wow, and it's not really bad in Warhammer.
Only thing really annoying thus far is healer camping in base where you can't reach them, like in Mourkain-Temple, or Tor Anroc. But I win most of the time anyway, and it's still fun getting knocked into the lava. I looked at the Tier 4 maps and they will not have such problems. Sometimes on Tor Anroc you can't do anything against being knocked into the lava, on T4 maps there is no such thing. They are all really interesting and diverse.

But I'm sure you will find a downside :-)

Hosebeast got it right about spammable snares, too. Witch elfs and hunters can spam them, yes, on range, and if you are running away, that's not really spammable.

[Giantdwarf]

idk why people insist on bashing either game, just play it if its not fun don't
WAR is fine if you don't like it don't play it zzzzz

[Cuddlybunnyz]

idk why people insist on bashing either game, just play it if its not fun don't
WAR is fine if you don't like it don't play it zzzzz

U R a Qute 1

[keLston]

Ralin you seem to have resorted to arguments that any game will have.

How fun will it be for a WoW player leveling ahead of everyone else and not being able to raid because everyone else is still 75? Not fun. Besides that, there are hundreds of people in the late 20s on my server, so those up top only really have to wait a week and then it will all start. But sure you must make a big problem out of it, which there is none.

What annoying issues does T1 have besides level imbalance? Some classes get some skills, some get others, maybe later. That's just the same with wow, and it's not really bad in Warhammer.
Only thing really annoying thus far is healer camping in base where you can't reach them, like in Mourkain-Temple, or Tor Anroc. But I win most of the time anyway, and it's still fun getting knocked into the lava. I looked at the Tier 4 maps and they will not have such problems. Sometimes on Tor Anroc you can't do anything against being knocked into the lava, on T4 maps there is no such thing. They are all really interesting and diverse.

But I'm sure you will find a downside :-)

Hosebeast got it right about spammable snares, too. Witch elfs and hunters can spam them, yes, on range, and if you are running away, that's not really spammable.

You missed the point. Grats.

Course you had to fanboy it up though. That much would be expected.

[Alphatier]

You missed the point. Grats.

Course you had to fanboy it up though. That much would be expected.

Interesting point.

[Felanor]

The problem with waiting for ppl to level up will only exist for like the first month the game is out, it's not a flaw with the game.

[mezor]

Well, just entered the game.

Mouseover tooltip for Initiative says:

"Increases your chance to evade attacks, detect stealthed enemies, and lowers your chance to be critcally hit."

Yea, the critically is spelled wrong on tooltip. But it seems to be the avoidance stat too.

Huh, seems you're right XD. I'll rather stick to wounds/toughness though if I had to choose :o

[keLston]

Interesting point.

Because you certainly made one, oh wait.

[bryte]

I canceled my wow account after staying up until 4:30 the first night I got going with war. Having been playing since early beta and not being sure about wanting to try once it hit live I am just so glad I did. RvR is amazingly fun and as people have said, skill and tactics with group movement/using los can make up for number imbalance quite often. The scenarios are fun and give a nice xp boost when they are popping to go with PQs and running RvR.

One thing I'd like to add is the rank boost when you are at a lower to allow you not to be just one shot by any rank x8-x0 and actually make meaningful contributions. Being able to be rank 3 and still double the next healer was incredibly fun on my DoK.

Hopefully they will get casts and tuning down a good bit more so it is a bit less buggy and easier to see what is going on. But after playing wotlk and not seeing anything I wanted to play war is a blessing.

[Safdar]

WoW is a different breed. It's funded by a VERY successful and powerful company and has the resources to create (and delay) its perfection. Everything Blizzard has released has been at least 90% as good as it would ever get, and WoW was no different. It was released very effectively and with less bugs than warhammer. It was smooth and the style was done very well. If you're looking for quality, the better funded and tried and true company is what you want.

But let's be honest, what REALLY matters is content. WoW has degraded to the point that doing instances is useless. Raiding is dumbed down and requires no effort to progress. Before Burning Crusade doing an instance and raiding was very fun and rewarded you with amazing gear to destroy both PvE and PvP. It wasn't as well done as it could have been, but Burning Crusade fixed all that. The gear was good, the grinding wasn't too harsh (only needed and a bit of gear to arena in s1/s2). The stats on items was fixed and the game was imo, perfected. Then 2.3 and season 3 hit and it all went downhill.

WoW turned into a grind fest. Grind honor to buy gear to grind more gear to grind arena for more gear to get a superficial title that has lost its meaning. Gladiator in s1/s2 was meaningful and an accomplishment. That's not to say it was the best season, because season 3 offered the most balanced among classes and featured some of my best gameplay experiences...until the last bit. On the PvE side, you grind to lv70 then PVP until you can do heroics to get badge gear and go raid instances that have had their requirements (basically guild skill) removed. Being a BT/Hyjal guild is laughable nowadays, whereas it used to be a sign of accomplishment. I remember a time when killing Vashj or Kael'thas was a legitimate victory, assuring a bit of e-respect for your guild. All that changed with Blizzard's new idea of the perfect MMO and they're servicing the low end of the player base effectively (easy mode yay, welfare gear yay, no attunements yay).

Now we're heading into Wrath of the Lich King and having played the Beta, don't expect much. It's more of the same. Even more grinds and more boredom. The amount of gear you can get is incredible, and offers you little care into what you want. When you hit lv80 you're still going to be sitting in Shattrath doing nothing after the first month or so. PvP is imbalanced, half the classes are underpowered, and arena is turning into an FPS map. Overall, it's underwhelming, and the only semblance of hope for me is to keep playing a Death Knight, whom I find quite fun. That being said, I've already cancelled my account and won't be renewing most likely.

Warhammer on the other hand is extremely enjoyable, especially on the PvP side. It takes grinding and makes it rewarding and fun. Although it's very unpolished it offers great gameplay and a much more enjoyable experience than WoW currently does. I can only expect good things from it in the future, especially when they start working out the kinks based on player feedback. It's not as in-depth as WoW which will not get you as addicted, and the low level cap will keep you playing for FUN (AFKing AV is fun, amirite?).

Overall, I'd recommend picking up Warhammer Online if you're looking for enjoyable experience much like a shooting game in the fact that you WANT to play... or keep playing WoW and grind to your heart's content. It's your choice.

TL;DR - WoW sucks, Warhammer is good.

I wrote a lot, I'm really bored.

[Beal]

TL;DR - WoW sucks, Warhammer is good.



Strongly considering getting WaR now.

Is the PVP skill based? Or can scrubs mash their buttons for longer and reach the same level of progress a very adept player could reach.

This seems to be an inherent issue with large scale pvp. Just doing it allows you to reap similar rewards as people that are kicking butt.


WaR moves away from CC. Does that take a whole dimension out of the gameplay? I can't say I would enjoy playing a damage vs. CC race that it somewhat seems to be.

Are population imbalances as much of a problem as i suspected them to be from reading what i've read on the game?

[Safdar]

Strongly considering getting WaR now.

Is the PVP skill based? Or can scrubs mash their buttons for longer and reach the same level of progress a very adept player could reach.

This seems to be an inherent issue with large scale pvp. Just doing it allows you to reap similar rewards as people that are kicking butt.


WaR moves away from CC. Does that take a whole dimension out of the gameplay? I can't say I would enjoy playing a damage vs. CC race that it somewhat seems to be.

Are population imbalances as much of a problem as i suspected them to be from reading what i've read on the game?
At this point it's too early to judge. You pretty much just get raped by everyone until you figure it out and even then I can't seem to win half the time just because of imbalances. Honestly, I think that's because it's highly based on group gameplay. I think if they offer a group BG for rewards mechanic it'll become amazing.

Don't get people wrong, CC still exists. You can snare, root, stun, knockback. You just can't rely on CC as much as WoW does.

On population, I'm not too sure yet. I've recently rolled a 2nd toon with my bro/cousin on a high pop server (for both order and destruction) so I'm guessing we'll be ok.

[Ascetic]

WoW turned into a grind fest. Grind honor to buy gear to grind more gear to grind arena for more gear to get a superficial title that has lost its meaning. Gladiator in s1/s2 was meaningful and an accomplishment. That's not to say it was the best season, because season 3 offered the most balanced among classes and featured some of my best gameplay experiences...until the last bit. On the PvE side, you grind to lv70 then PVP until you can do heroics to get badge gear and go raid instances that have had their requirements (basically guild skill) removed. Being a BT/Hyjal guild is laughable nowadays, whereas it used to be a sign of accomplishment. I remember a time when killing Vashj or Kael'thas was a legitimate victory, assuring a bit of e-respect for your guild. All that changed with Blizzard's new idea of the perfect MMO and they're servicing the low end of the player base effectively (easy mode yay, welfare gear yay, no attunements yay).



In all honesty though, would it really be more enjoyable if you didn't have gear to work towards? I don't think anyone really wants to look at the same set of gear for 2-3 seasons in a row if they have the choice. You're going to be doing BGs/Arenas frequently as they are two venues used to pass the time. It makes sense that you get something new for the time you put in.

There's always going to be something to grind regardless of the MMO, but I think you have to give credit to Blizz for making strides to reduce the ridiculous grinds they had fallen in love with in the original. There's no HWL grind, there's no annoying ass Silithus grind, and it's significantly easier to level a new toon to max level. It just seems like you're contradicting yourself in this paragraph. I think they created the "easy mode" raid requirements and "welfare" gear to provide more options for players in hopes of reducing the sensation of a grind.

"Welfare epics" just give people different ways of acquiring gear rather than being forced to do 25 man raids or PvP only. The more options you have the less you're likely to feel that you're just grinding something out.

The biggest thing that Blizz needs to focus on getting as close to right as possible is class balance. Getting dropped 100-0 in a stun sucks ass...and there are several classes that are capable of that right now. They also have to restore balance amongst healers so we don't have a Woltk version of resto druids dominating the brackets. The revamped arena matchmaking system will hopefully bring back a competitive aspect for all levels of skill in arena. You play for fun mostly...but it's not really fun if you're a 1500 rated team playing against full s4 players. They also need to stop penalizing people for playing with friends/guildies. If they can accomplish this to an extent, I think Wotlk will pan out to be a very strong game because you know the PvE content will always be unrivaled.

In my opinion, if you like raiding, doing instances, arenas, and the 1v1s, then WoW will probably always be a game you'll enjoy. If you hate the class mechanics in WoW and really just want massive group PvP that's extensively supported by devs, then War will probably be the game for you.

[Safdar]

In all honesty though, would it really be more enjoyable if you didn't have gear to work towards? I don't think anyone really wants to look at the same set of gear for 2-3 seasons in a row if they have the choice. You're going to be doing BGs/Arenas frequently as they are two venues used to pass the time. It makes sense that you get something new for the time you put in.

There's always going to be something to grind regardless of the MMO, but I think you have to give credit to Blizz for making strides to reduce the ridiculous grinds they had fallen in love with in the original. There's no HWL grind, there's no annoying ass Silithus grind, and it's significantly easier to level a new toon to max level. It just seems like you're contradicting yourself in this paragraph. I think they created the "easy mode" raid requirements and "welfare" gear to provide more options for players in hopes of reducing the sensation of a grind.

"Welfare epics" just give people different ways of acquiring gear rather than being forced to do 25 man raids or PvP only. The more options you have the less you're likely to feel that you're just grinding something out.

The biggest thing that Blizz needs to focus on getting as close to right as possible is class balance. Getting dropped 100-0 in a stun sucks ass...and there are several classes that are capable of that right now. They also have to restore balance amongst healers so we don't have a Woltk version of resto druids dominating the brackets. The revamped arena matchmaking system will hopefully bring back a competitive aspect for all levels of skill in arena. You play for fun mostly...but it's not really fun if you're a 1500 rated team playing against full s4 players. They also need to stop penalizing people for playing with friends/guildies. If they can accomplish this to an extent, I think Wotlk will pan out to be a very strong game because you know the PvE content will always be unrivaled.

In my opinion, if you like raiding, doing instances, arenas, and the 1v1s, then WoW will probably always be a game you'll enjoy. If you hate the class mechanics in WoW and really just want massive group PvP that's extensively supported by devs, then War will probably be the game for you.
Are you kidding me? Give them credit for making strides in reducing grinding? Sorry man, but one long ass grind (HWL) was replaced with 10 other grinds. No, fuck that. The problem isn't working towards the gear. I'm actually a fan of the arena rewards. If you're successful you'll be making a piece every 2 weeks, maybe 3. It's not so bad, and it felt good. However, the system in place now is:

Grind 70
Grind 200,000+ honor
Grind instances for badges
Grind dailies for gold to buy things...not items, because those were rendered useless
Grind arena rating for a useless mount and a title that means nothing now.

It's awesome enough to make you want to AFK FOR HONOR. WELL DONE.

On the issue of welfare gear, it just diminishes the value of your accomplishments, ESPECIALLY in WotLK, you get a set at 1600-1800 that is 13 item level below the 2080-2200 set. That's like 15 stam, and 5 of each stat. Whoo, awesome. Fucking amazing.

Bottomline - if you like to raid, there's no other choice but WoW. If you like to have fun, WoW is not really a good choice. I mean, seriously, how many of us sit in shat bored or just offline. Once you spend 50 hours grinding honor for a set, unless your arena partners are on, you're doing nothing.

[Cuddlybunnyz]

what's really the difference between grinding renown and grinding honor when you are doing it solo really, you get them the same way(killing people or doing scenarios) only thing different is you have to regrind honor each season. are they going to add more renown ranks if people cap their renown, or just leave it at 80?

i think wow is a huge grind don't get me wrong, i just don't understand how you can construe similar parts of a different mmo as not grinding when they are really a similar thing

[Grombringal]

There's already people AFKing in scenarios -_-

[Algrumm]

There's already people AFKing in scenarios -_-

You get virtually nothing for doing it though, from what I saw. at 28/28 I was able to get nearly 2200 renown/scenario, AFKing wouldn't even get 1/10th that.

[Duckers]

You get virtually nothing for doing it though, from what I saw. at 28/28 I was able to get nearly 2200 renown/scenario, AFKing wouldn't even get 1/10th that.
Nah, you get a fair decent amount for doing absolutely nothing. ;)

[Giantdwarf]

Just play your respective games and be happy
AIIGHT
Z
hey cuddlybunnyz lets play some arenas man

[keLston]

Are you kidding me? Give them credit for making strides in reducing grinding? Sorry man, but one long ass grind (HWL) was replaced with 10 other grinds. No, fuck that. The problem isn't working towards the gear. I'm actually a fan of the arena rewards. If you're successful you'll be making a piece every 2 weeks, maybe 3. It's not so bad, and it felt good. However, the system in place now is:

Grind 70
Grind 200,000+ honor
Grind instances for badges
Grind dailies for gold to buy things...not items, because those were rendered useless
Grind arena rating for a useless mount and a title that means nothing now.

It's awesome enough to make you want to AFK FOR HONOR. WELL DONE.

On the issue of welfare gear, it just diminishes the value of your accomplishments, ESPECIALLY in WotLK, you get a set at 1600-1800 that is 13 item level below the 2080-2200 set. That's like 15 stam, and 5 of each stat. Whoo, awesome. Fucking amazing.

Bottomline - if you like to raid, there's no other choice but WoW. If you like to have fun, WoW is not really a good choice. I mean, seriously, how many of us sit in shat bored or just offline. Once you spend 50 hours grinding honor for a set, unless your arena partners are on, you're doing nothing.

It takes 6 million renown for 1 RR at the higher ranks. How is this not a grind? Given that the rate of gain is about the same as honor grinding and you do the same things getting there, how is one any different than the other except that WoW wants you to get like, at most, 40K for something, whereas Warhammer wants you to get 6 million.

How is Renown gear any less welfare? I made a character, level 1. I didn't even bother with quests and just joined Scenarios. Clearly, I was pretty useless overall even with the boost to level 8 and just picked up renown gear as I went along. That's not welfare?

Warhammer system in place now:

Grind to 40.
Grind to Renown 80 (which is like 6 million renown per lvl at one point).
Grind PQs for Influence for gear.
Grind random shit for the terrible tradeskill minigames.

?

[Felanor]

Ralin just stop posting, you don't like the game and we don't like you, so lets call it quits, you don't have to make an effort to oppose most people on this forum section.

[Gormoth]

Ralin just stop posting, you don't like the game and we don't like you, so lets call it quits, you don't have to make an effort to oppose most people on this forum section.


Most players who like a game (blizzard fanboys and not), and really like anything, will overlook the bad sides of what they like and concentrate on the good side. Which is fine and good, as it keeps you enjoying your experience longer. But its not very objective either. You might not like Ralin, but he does give us non-WAR players a "devil's advocate" to balance the praise against.

[Algrumm]

Most players who like a game (blizzard fanboys and not), and really like anything, will overlook the bad sides of what they like and concentrate on the good side. Which is fine and good, as it keeps you enjoying your experience longer. But its not very objective either. You might not like Ralin, but he does give us non-WAR players a "devil's advocate" to balance the praise against.

Ralin is just giving out a blizz-fanboi point of view.

[Gormoth]

Ralin is just giving out a blizz-fanboi point of view.


My philosophy on things is that its never as good as people think it is, but its never as bad as people think it is.

[Felanor]

My philosophy is try it for yourself and not listen to what other people say.

[Ascetic]

Grind 70
Grind 200,000+ honor
Grind instances for badges
Grind dailies for gold to buy things...not items, because those were rendered useless
Grind arena rating for a useless mount and a title that means nothing now.


On the issue of welfare gear, it just diminishes the value of your accomplishments, ESPECIALLY in WotLK, you get a set at 1600-1800 that is 13 item level below the 2080-2200 set. That's like 15 stam, and 5 of each stat. Whoo, awesome. Fucking amazing.



Grind 70 (waaaaaayyyyy easier to do now. you can hit 70 half asleep)
Grind 200,000+ honor (neck, belt, bracer, boots, and a ring...not so bad. Turn in extra BG marks for more honor)
Grind instances for badges (don't have to...you can just raid or get decent arena ratings for good gear so long as you don't need +hit)
Grind dailies for gold to buy things...not items, because those were rendered useless (honestly, how much gold you REALLY need? do the 2 minute bombing runs for some ez gold)
Grind arena rating for a useless mount and a title that means nothing now. (play for the competitive aspect...not for gear. I'll concede that it's not competitive like it should be)

As for welfare gear, you'd rather there be only 1 set of arena/pvp gear that requires 1800+ ratings? What happens to all the people that want PvP gear but don't want to grind to 1800+? Some people only want to play arena casually. If you create vastly different items, you risk creating a very large gear gap. Besides, the gear others get doesn't diminish your work. Let's say they have the 1755 rating weapon but you have the 2080 weapon. You still have the weapon with the highest PR required and everyone will recognize that. The stats may not be all that different, but everyone will know that you're clearly a better player than those with 1755 weapons. I don't see how your work is diminished.

[wildmongrell]

WoW is a different breed. It's funded by a VERY successful and powerful company and has the resources to create (and delay) its perfection. Everything Blizzard has released has been at least 90% as good as it would ever get, and WoW was no different. It was released very effectively and with less bugs than warhammer. It was smooth and the style was done very well. If you're looking for quality, the better funded and tried and true company is what you want.


WoW was down almost every single day when it first came out due to servers being bad and alot of bugs with mobs. Warhammer the servers come down what once a week for some patchs and are down for a few hours? I have 13 free days total from my wow account due to all the extra days they give you for the servers being down. 12 of them are in the first month and it was only given to you if the servers were down for more then 5 hours unless it was a tuesday which you couldn't play on becuase the servers like never came back up.

[Safdar]

WoW was down almost every single day when it first came out due to servers being bad and alot of bugs with mobs. Warhammer the servers come down what once a week for some patchs and are down for a few hours? I have 13 free days total from my wow account due to all the extra days they give you for the servers being down. 12 of them are in the first month and it was only given to you if the servers were down for more then 5 hours unless it was a tuesday which you couldn't play on becuase the servers like never came back up.

2004
2008

Not that surprised.

[KennyEU]

I think it's rather because there likely was a lot more of a flood on the servers with the release of WoW.

Nevertheless, yeah, good job for them if they managed to release without any real problems.. don't see how this has to do with a lot anyway though, it's a small hassle for a short while or not, but you'll be playing the game for maybe years to come..

[Ensipid]

So from reading a bit of this thread , players with good ratings like it? others don't.

So i should go pick it up maybe eh?

[keLston]

My philosophy is try it for yourself and not listen to what other people say.

I'm sure more people will subscribe to that philosophy if it didn't cost 50 dollars to do it.

I post the other absolute extreme because everyone else seems to want to post the Mythic can do no wrong extreme, which, sorry, that's just really misleading. The game isn't perfect. No game is. But people want an honest view of the game, good and bad. Not just the side that completely ignores/never mentions the bad at all.

My official view of Warhammer is the same as probably the average person, and if you want it, here it is:

It's not a miracle game. The varied scenarios are definitely better than the 4 in WoW, but at the same time, I can't help but feel some of them are just a rehash of the same gameplay styles of WoW BGs. The other annoyance with the varied scenarios is based on class choices. For example, it sorta sucks to play Khaine's Embrace for Destruction because the default people for Khaine's Embrace (Dark Elves) don't have a tank class and have a less than optimal healer (imo DoK's don't come into their own till round 20). Nordenwatch, for example, sucks for Order because the role is switched. Destro has Zealots and you have your less than optimal warrior priests.

It does bring you back to the feeling of TM/SS if you really, really liked it, but honestly? Doesn't that get boring? Cmon now. Nostalgia always makes you remember things better than it actually was. People complain about skill and lack thereof so much, except how was the SS/TM zerg skillful?

The other question that remains to be answered is the "What now?" question. So say you went and sacked the city. You beat the game. What now? Is it really as compelling as the first time when you do it for the 30th time? Ragnaros was pretty cool the first time I saw him, but pretty sure you couldn't pay me to do a full Molten Core now even with full 70s to do it up in 30 minutes.

What happens after you get past the point of immediate rewards? For most people right now, you could get prolly a level or more a day + an RR rank or more to go with it. What happens when you hit 40 and it takes 4 million renown to get the next rank so you're looking at over a week of grinding just to get your next thing? Will it be as fun then? Why wouldn't it end up feeling like what BGs feel like now?

As it stands, Warhammer is adequately fun because I play with a couple of my friends. But I could probably take Warhammer and replace it with any other game and the same would apply. I have fun with my friends, as do most of you. Do I have fun because of or in spite of them? Without a doubt it's because i'm with them. And they all share my viewpoint of the game, it's something to do until WotLK.

The game isn't the holy grail of MMO PvP that some people would seem to want you to believe. The game isn't miles ahead of WoW.

If you asked me to sum up Warhammer really succinctly:

Warhammer is a less hardcore Korean style MMO. It's MMO PvP with a WoWian design philosophy hoping to fill the casual PvP niche market.

[Safdar]

I'm sure more people will subscribe to that philosophy if it didn't cost 50 dollars to do it.

I post the other absolute extreme because everyone else seems to want to post the Mythic can do no wrong extreme, which, sorry, that's just really misleading. The game isn't perfect. No game is. But people want an honest view of the game, good and bad. Not just the side that completely ignores/never mentions the bad at all.

My official view of Warhammer is the same as probably the average person, and if you want it, here it is:

It's not a miracle game. The varied scenarios are definitely better than the 4 in WoW, but at the same time, I can't help but feel some of them are just a rehash of the same gameplay styles of WoW BGs. The other annoyance with the varied scenarios is based on class choices. For example, it sorta sucks to play Khaine's Embrace for Destruction because the default people for Khaine's Embrace (Dark Elves) don't have a tank class and have a less than optimal healer (imo DoK's don't come into their own till round 20). Nordenwatch, for example, sucks for Order because the role is switched. Destro has Zealots and you have your less than optimal warrior priests.

It does bring you back to the feeling of TM/SS if you really, really liked it, but honestly? Doesn't that get boring? Cmon now. Nostalgia always makes you remember things better than it actually was. People complain about skill and lack thereof so much, except how was the SS/TM zerg skillful?

The other question that remains to be answered is the "What now?" question. So say you went and sacked the city. You beat the game. What now? Is it really as compelling as the first time when you do it for the 30th time? Ragnaros was pretty cool the first time I saw him, but pretty sure you couldn't pay me to do a full Molten Core now even with full 70s to do it up in 30 minutes.

What happens after you get past the point of immediate rewards? For most people right now, you could get prolly a level or more a day + an RR rank or more to go with it. What happens when you hit 40 and it takes 4 million renown to get the next rank so you're looking at over a week of grinding just to get your next thing? Will it be as fun then? Why wouldn't it end up feeling like what BGs feel like now?

As it stands, Warhammer is adequately fun because I play with a couple of my friends. But I could probably take Warhammer and replace it with any other game and the same would apply. I have fun with my friends, as do most of you. Do I have fun because of or in spite of them? Without a doubt it's because i'm with them. And they all share my viewpoint of the game, it's something to do until WotLK.

The game isn't the holy grail of MMO PvP that some people would seem to want you to believe. The game isn't miles ahead of WoW.

If you asked me to sum up Warhammer really succinctly:

Warhammer is a less hardcore Korean style MMO. It's MMO PvP with a WoWian design philosophy hoping to fill the casual PvP niche market.
Thing is, I don't really care about my RR, I just want to fuck shit up with some friends.

[keLston]

Thing is, I don't really care about my RR, I just want to fuck shit up with some friends.

Too bad you'd be losing out on 5 talent points as a result of it. Which, as it stands, is one of the main reasons you need the RR, not to mention the RR training tree or the RR required gear.

[Alphatier]

1) But people want an honest view of the game, good and bad. Not just the side that completely ignores/never mentions the bad at all.

2) My official view of Warhammer is the same as probably the average person, and if you want it, here it is:


3) It does bring you back to the feeling of TM/SS if you really, really liked it, but honestly? Doesn't that get boring? Cmon now. Nostalgia always makes you remember things better than it actually was. People complain about skill and lack thereof so much, except how was the SS/TM zerg skillful?

4) The other question that remains to be answered is the "What now?" question. So say you went and sacked the city. You beat the game. What now? Is it really as compelling as the first time when you do it for the 30th time? Ragnaros was pretty cool the first time I saw him, but pretty sure you couldn't pay me to do a full Molten Core now even with full 70s to do it up in 30 minutes.

5) What happens after you get past the point of immediate rewards? For most people right now, you could get prolly a level or more a day + an RR rank or more to go with it. What happens when you hit 40 and it takes 4 million renown to get the next rank so you're looking at over a week of grinding just to get your next thing? Will it be as fun then? Why wouldn't it end up feeling like what BGs feel like now?


1) So noone mentions the flaws the game currently has, like some scenario designs, or the cast system, no, noone ever does that it's all fluffy flower power. You are the only objective person /sarcasm

2) Your view is the one of a wow biased war hater, and becomes boring.

3) I personally really liked TM/SS, the old AV and XR. Roaming 6vs6 is for skill. And you are not forced to do it like wow arena. You can if you want to have fun (fun,lol)

4) Let's get back to Vanilla WoW first version. Wow we do not have any battlegrounds, we do not have molten core. We will just do UBRS and then the game will become boring and then we will quit.
Right? Right? No, they implemented tons of stuff, you are delusional if you think War is finished and you will not have fun after raiding the city.

5) Why would I have to grind ? Why wouldn't I play a game for fun once in a while. You make it seem it's totally needed to grind to RR 80. Let me tell you, I won't, because you don't get warglaives at RR 80. I will play a game for fun.

PS: No need to comment on the Tier 1 stuff you posted.

Thing is, I don't really care about my RR, I just want to fuck shit up with some friends.

Yes !

[Safdar]

Too bad you'd be losing out on 5 talent points as a result of it. Which, as it stands, is one of the main reasons you need the RR, not to mention the RR training tree or the RR required gear.

Who said I'm not getting my RR up. Fucking shit up with friends gets you renown, in case you didn't know. I just don't care about grinding it specifically.

[Cuddlybunnyz]

Just play your respective games and be happy
AIIGHT
Z
hey cuddlybunnyz lets play some arenas man

wat

[Giantdwarf]

thought we were going to play some intense arenas

[Cuddlybunnyz]

thought we were going to play some intense arenas

im not on skull crusher sorry!

also, go bears!

[Giantdwarf]

things can change man

[Cuddlybunnyz]

things can change man

ch-ch-ch-ch-changes

oh also to keep on topic, everyone that makes a black orc has a tiny wanger irl.

BELIEVE IT

[Giantdwarf]

so when we hangin out

[Sarc]

Don't regret buying it. Won't continue my subscription untill they fix all the bugs though.

[Lieto]

Seems like the fixed a lot of bugs already. I started playing since 1.01 (or smth like that) and i didnt find many bugs at all. Everything seems working as intended exept for some balance issues like overpowered bright mages and sorc. But it might be that i am just jelous that i am not one of them. Crafts seems pretty useless too atm but nothing major.

After endless grind in wow for more then 2 years game seems very relaxing and fun. Most of the players seems to be playing as a team, noone flame each other, noone leach etc (at least for now). Gameplay is pretty much like vanilla wow, people do pvp because its fun. Except for the fact that whole game designed around encouraging people to do this.

As for graphics and animation i wont say that i like it much more then ones in wow. In fact animation is poor but other then that, it does creates an atmosphere: fog and lighting are pretty cool, characters are very "smooth". Sometimes it feels like characters and environment are not very good together in some zones but its just if you stand there staring on the ground or running along the road for too long (roads rly lack some grass or sand on them.

All in all it feels like there is a lot of fun stuff to explore, so i am pretty excited and going to explore the game till 40 at least.

[Teddymonster]

I think the graphics are far superior to WoW. I didn't even realize it until I logged into WoW for the first time in a few weeks over the weekend and went "wtf, this game looks terrible now." The characters looks so much cleaner and zones like Avelorn or IC blow anything in WoW away. But yeah, the animations are bad in WAR. It's obviously the most glaring issue. They freeze, they skip, they repeat, and some of them are just too fucking long and loopy (scourge)...and I can't figure out how to turn auto attack off! I literally turn it off, go attack something and as soon as I get hit it turns back on by itself. Pisses me off...

[Arirang]

Graphics aren't better.
It is not a pretty game for how much resources it uses.
Bioshock on my comp runs much smoother and that game, has good graphics.

WAR graphics are not that good.

However, it's a pretty good game so far.
Needs a lot of polishing.

[Teddymonster]

Graphics aren't better.
It is not a pretty game for how much resources it uses.
Bioshock on my comp runs much smoother and that game, has good graphics.

WAR graphics are not that good.

However, it's a pretty good game so far.
Needs a lot of polishing.

if you can go to Shat, logout, then go to IC in warhammer and still think the graphics are not better then you must have stevie wonder for an eye doctor or have a shit gfx card

[Arirang]

Having a stylized cartoon-y graphic does not mean the game is ugly.
It just means it has a very unique stylized look.

FYI, cartoons age better.
An example would be Street Fighters 2 vs. Mortal Kombat.
People shrieked how great MK was when it came out, how realistic it is and whatnot.
Look how silly it looks now. SF2 still looks good.

You don't have to mock people to get your point across either.

[keLston]

if you can go to Shat, logout, then go to IC in warhammer and still think the graphics are not better then you must have stevie wonder for an eye doctor or have a shit gfx card

HEY LET ME JUST ADD 1000 SPIKES TO EVERYTHING BECAUSE I CAN'T THINK OF A WAY TO PROPERLY PORTRAY AN "EVIL" FEEL TO STUFF SO WE CAN WASTE THOUSANDS OF POLYGONS AND GRAPHICAL PROCESSING POWER FOR REALISTIC LOOKING SPIKES KIND OF LIKE HOW DOOM 3 MADE REALISTIC LOOKING PIPES.

[Militant]

well, after getting to 29 i've become extremely bored of the game to be honest, levelling slowed down insanely and i've had to actually push myself to go 28 to 29. been making alts like crazy but i keep getting bored

[Konard]

the small scale pvp/rvr is gay

1v1 healer v dps healer v healer is silly.
I play sham all i do is hot bubble and ap drain till they go away.

the games rvr is just huge clusterfcks

still fun to play, looking forward to see how things turn out in the coming months. Hopefully itll be better than Age of Crapnan

[Teddymonster]

Well I was in a 50v50 keep battle last night in avelorn and it completely sold me on the game. It was cool as fuck with all the cannons going off and order trying to bumrush the front door and all that shit, then once we (destro) had them down to about 20 we jumped down off the walls of the keep and chased them through the woods as they retreated and finished them off. It was like some braveheart shit and most importantly it wasn't choppy at all.

[Levitron]

How DARE you roll destro

:angryface:

[Goblinmatt]

Well I was in a 50v50 keep battle last night in avelorn and it completely sold me on the game. It was cool as fuck with all the cannons going off and order trying to bumrush the front door and all that shit, then once we (destro) had them down to about 20 we jumped down off the walls of the keep and chased them through the woods as they retreated and finished them off. It was like some braveheart shit and most importantly it wasn't choppy at all.


Sounds sick. Computer specs?

[Teddymonster]

8800 GT 512mb
dual 3.0 amd
3gb ram

[Tanix]

well, after getting to 29 i've become extremely bored of the game to be honest, levelling slowed down insanely and i've had to actually push myself to go 28 to 29. been making alts like crazy but i keep getting bored

In the same boat as you. I just hit my boredom at 23. Will probably not continue with War past the free month. Also, if I go back to another MMO after giving it a chance to mature, it will be AoC.

Final straw would probably be logging in late last night and only being able to play 1 scenario(t3) because all the others were abandoned. Its not like I play a low pop server either, we're talking Skull Throne thats full/full during prime time and a 15 min q. I hear its the same in t4, enjoy grinding to rr rank 80 in Serpent's Passage.

Afk bots, gold spam mods, assist train mods... War is off to a hell of a start.

[Militant]

In the same boat as you. I just hit my boredom at 23. Will probably not continue with War past the free month. Also, if I go back to another MMO after giving it a chance to mature, it will be AoC.

Final straw would probably be logging in late last night and only being able to play 1 scenario(t3) because all the others were abandoned. Its not like I play a low pop server either, we're talking Skull Throne thats full/full during prime time and a 15 min q. I hear its the same in t4, enjoy grinding to rr rank 80 in Serpent's Passage.

Afk bots, gold spam mods, assist train mods... War is off to a hell of a start.

skull throne as well, and yeah same problem. the first day they released the multi-queue system was the best because everyone was playing every scenario, then it was back to lava ass hell, also done after my free month too =(

[Duckers]

SpamMeNot blocks all those gold spams, but Assist Train mods? ..lol?

[Avicularia]

Just bought mine, and made lvl 6 wizzard. I do like it, mage's animations looks far better than wow's. Game isn't that dynamic, but we'll see on higher lvls. Let's face it - elwyn forest sux even more.

[Taoth]

I'm happy to see a game that moves away from disabling crowd control no chain stuns/silences/fears. The game is very reaction based and isn't too stupid fast combat like WoW where shit is gibbed.


Without fast combat you're left with either stacking mitigation onto characters or extremely high health. Neither of which are fun. Its a game that cant take the personal skill attributes of actual swordplay and movement and such into play, so to account for such nuances you have to either counter balance through one of 3 methods.
1st is RNG of no dmg, and the dmg that is taken is meaningful. That isnt fun because you're fighting and then suddenly out of nowhere the rng dumps on your face.
2nd, is stacking health, but then that lends the feeling that your damage isnt doing really anything to the opponent so fights just feel stretched and boring. Thats not fun.
And 3rd (what WoW uses) is a mix of medium hp/dmg with a bit of mitigation, but balanced by outside control to break up combat times. This lends the meaningful damage output while still adding length to fights while also providing dynamic movement options for each character. This is fun, if not overdone (which WoW unfortunatly is slightly overdone on).

[keLston]

8800 GT 512mb
dual 3.0 amd
3gb ram

Did you run on low settings or something?

3.0 Intel Duo Core
4GB Ram
8800GTX

50v50 keep battle was unplayable.

[Levitron]

I have a similar set up Ralin

I just run it on fastest framerate... it doesn't look bad and it's buttery smooth, even in the thick of it.

[Teddymonster]

Did you run on low settings or something?

3.0 Intel Duo Core
4GB Ram
8800GTX

50v50 keep battle was unplayable.

I have everything on full blast. The only thing that lags me is the hellfire like aoe that BWs have.

[Kday]

Designing a successful massively multiplayer online game may be one of the supreme challenges in all entertainment.

Such a game is not merely consumed, or even played. It is inhabited. In most of them someone who is online for 15 hours a week is considered casual. Subscribers who log 30 hours weekly are fairly common, and for people who play any online game at an elite level, it becomes a significant part of their lives, not only in the sheer amount of time spent but also in the bonds formed with other players.

Of course the average American spends more than 30 hours a week watching television, but he doesn't spend all 30 hours watching the same show (one hopes). Making a top-grade online game means creating an entire universe that an intelligent, motivated player can expect to enjoy spending years exploring (and paying $15 a month for) without getting bored.

That is a high bar, and very few games meet it. Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning does. I spent more than 70 hours with the game recently, and it is clear that Warhammer is the best new massively multiplayer game since World of Warcraft, which was released in 2004. Warhammer provides a more engaging and diverse experience than either Lord of the Rings Online (unless you're a serious Tolkien fan) or Age of Conan (unless you really need topless barbarians in your life), the other major online fantasy releases in recent years.

Warhammer was released on Sept. 18, so it is only now that the early adopters have to start thinking about whether to maintain their initial 30-day subscriptions. It is only with extensive play that subscribers can determine if they are faced with another Age of Conan situation. Droves of players flocked to Age of Conan earlier this year, only to discover after a few weeks of play that broad swaths of the game's more advanced content were largely unfinished.

I have not reached Warhammer's highest levels, and probably won't until after the holidays (so many games, so little time), but Warhammer does not seem to suffer that problem. The game's developer, Mythic Entertainment, has done a wondrous job of melding familiar conventions from World of Warcraft (so a WOW player can start playing Warhammer and feel immediately at home) with a barrage of "Why didn't anyone think of that before?" gameplay innovations, like a "public quest" framework for bringing disparate players together to accomplish common goals.

Best of all, Warhammer is built around a deep system for players to war with one another for control of fortresslike strongholds and even entire cities — an expected bounty from Mythic's previous development of 2001's Dark Age of Camelot, which also focused on player-versus-player combat.

And here is the one major caveat with Warhammer Online: If you don't like to fight against other players, it is probably not the game for you.

That's because there are two major facets to a good online game.

First, you need a vast amount of content constructed from scratch: varied geographies to explore and hundreds if not thousands of challenging quests to attempt, characters to meet, virtual foes to defeat and bits of shiny loot to accumulate. This is where World of Warcraft excels. The best part of WOW is banding together with friends to battle big computer-controlled bad guys in carefully scripted encounters. Gamers call this player-versus-environment content, or PvE.

But second, you also need systems that enable players to interact with one another to create emergent entertainment and story lines among themselves. This aspect is more like sports, where the basic rules are defined but the narrative is created through the interplay of participants rather than defined in advance. This is where a game like Eve Online excels. The best part of Eve is banding together with friends to battle other real people. The broad plot in a game like Eve is a product of conflict and cooperation among players, rather than the product of a team of professional writers. Gamers call this player-versus-player content, or PvP.

Online, PvP players sometimes refer to people who prefer PvE as carebears. The deal with Warhammer is simple: If you're a serious carebear, don't come to Warhammer.

In fairness, Mythic has done well with the game's PvE content. There are a ton of quests, but if you really don't ever want to fight other players, stick with World of Warcraft. WOW provides a far more extensive, involving PvE experience than any other online game and will probably continue to do so for years.

But if you're one of the many gamers who like to indulge in player-on-player mayhem once in a while, Warhammer may provide a refreshing change of pace. And if fantasy PvP is all you care about, there is very little reason to play anything other than Warhammer Online at the moment.

Warhammer is no "WOW killer," which is what many gamers and industry executives seem to be waiting for. With its international player base and dedicated development team at Blizzard Entertainment, World of Warcraft isn't going anywhere.

But for a lot of online gamers, Warhammer is providing the most significant competition for their leisure hours in many years. It's about time.

[Lieto]

Our server recently reached end-game and it seems like it all comes to the one who can stay online longer wins.

[blackbelt]

rank 26/25 atm, im getting tired of the endless TA farming.
Solo quests XP suck ass compared to scenarios(but theyre buffing it i guess),
I play on Eltharion-Eu(one of the most populated servers in eu) and still during normal "peak" hours most of the time its hard to find party for public quests, and the horrible general chat design isnt making it any easier.

-Playing PvP as a tank with randoms only can be frustrating as hell sometimes, pretty much as playing solo Battlegrounds in WoW as a warrior facing squadron of frost mages. (difference is that i have people to play with in wow, and none in war)

-Dunno, im still considering to pay for 1 more month, we'll see i guess.
edit :
Bare with me a little longer as couple of things came to my mind after posting :)

-I like the combat mechanics of each classes, and their unique "2nd energy system", i think it is much better than wow's rage/energy/mana.

-Haven't participated in any organized raids/siegies/keep defending etc, so cant comment on that really, but what i read on my servers forum, was that the lag during large battles is really huge, making the game almost unplayable.
-I hate the map, and i hate the map's fog of war thingy, it's retarded imo.

-The only "dungeon" ive been into so far is Mountain Gunbad.
I like the concept of a sort of "public dungeon" thingy, but the fact that after each wipe you have to start all over, is really bad and dishearthening (?) at times + there are still bugs like mobs evading and resetting to 100% (its upsetting when fighting heros especially).

-People saying that there is no CC in this game havent really been playing a melee class i presume, because when facing an organized group of players, it isnt really rare to stand in chain-roots for over 15 seconds once "juggernaut" ability is on cooldown. They really need to add diminishing returns to roots, or think of something else to somehow diminish it, but in all seriousness it needs to be looked at and changed.

-The combat system is much different than the one present in WoW. There is no CC tracking, there are no cast bars to look at, there is no spell-alert mod, there is no option to completely lose control of your char for over 20 seconds.(cyclone fear poly anyone ? )

-The way is see it now though, is that WoW requires a lot more micro-management of your abilities than WAR(atleast in top notch arena games), which seem to be focused more on RvR (which might lead to just zerging each other im afraid, but once again i havent really been in a large organized battle yet)

The developers seem to be really reading forums and analyzing all the insight the player database gives them, so it might only change for better i guess. Once again - well see how it goes.

I apologise for the wall of text i just created, and forgive if my post has grammar bads in it :)

[Teddymonster]

-The combat system is much different than the one present in WoW. There is no CC tracking, there are no cast bars to look at, there is no spell-alert mod, there is no option to completely lose control of your char for over 20 seconds.(cyclone fear poly anyone ? )


Im not sure if you're saying this is a good thing or a bad thing but I like it. It makes so you have to pay more attention to your oppenents and self and surroundings. In WoW with the being able to see buffs, cast bars, target of target and having mods like focusframe, dotimers, afflicted, etc basically make it so you can play an entire arena match without ever actually checking out whats going on and just look a messages and icons and know whats going on with everyone. I do like all those things in WoW but you gotta admit is a case of been spoiled and making things much easier on yourself. For some reason I actually like it in WAR when I go "ummmmmm, who the fuck and what the fuck just killed me?"

[blackbelt]

its a good thing in my opionion aswell, but what i dont really like is that the only viable way to get xp atm is by farming scenarios (which i might add ppl play only 1 type of it) over and over again until u puke with it. if thats not endless grinding then i dont know what is.

[Final]

At least I enjoy it more than questing lol.

[Alphatier]

its a good thing in my opionion aswell, but what i dont really like is that the only viable way to get xp atm is by farming scenarios (which i might add ppl play only 1 type of it) over and over again until u puke with it. if thats not endless grinding then i dont know what is.

Aoe grinding PQs is much better for xp. Much much. Better.

[blackbelt]

ok didnt know that , i admit :) but still, its grinding, and some people said that "in warhammer there is no wow-alike grind", but i honestly must say that its just not true. PQ's are a grind, scenarios are a grind etc. I don't see it as something wrong with the game, because honestly grinding is part of a MMO game.
Also Xaphire, dont get me wrong, I do enjoy PvP, scenarios(when the randoms im playing with arent totally retarded :p ), hell, i even still enjoy battlegrounds in WoW, but during the leveling phase i would also like to get to know the world a bit more, do some questing, exploring, dungeons etc.like i did when i leveled my first char in WoW, and atm it just feels like everytime i do one of those things, i slow down my leveling by half.

[Kday]

Is any one having problems where the game just crashes randomly.

My comp is more than suitable to run this game, so I got no idea what the fuck is going on and its driving me nuts.

[Alphatier]

just do it like me, don't maximize your XP gain. Play some scenarios, do some quests, do some more scenarios, do some more quests, oh there's a PQ I want to do for the stuff I can get through influence, oh nice a good PQ reward, oh I'm 22 let's do Mount Gunbad, then let's do some more scenarios. Oh a keep is getting sieged let's get/defend it.
You won't level as fast as possible, but you will have fun while leveling.

And personally I don't see scenarios as a grind because I get to know more moves and stuff in most every scenario I join, there are dozens of them (although it's true some are very overplayed) and they change every 10 levels. I get XP and reknown through them, so I can't really say something against it.

Wow isn't only grinding, but there's lots of it, grind some profession, grind reputation for enchants, grind enchant mats, grind gold for some mount (you get your mount in War at lvl 20 and you will have loads of gold for it), grind honor (oh how I hate grinding honor every season), grind marks.
Basically, after S2 it was no fun any more, and it was disgusting to play PvP, I am sure most people AFKed their way to vindicator's/guardian's gear because it was soooo boring and such a grind.
I am sure this will happen with War, too, if they don't somehow bring something I can't see or update the content like maniac,s, but till then it will be new and refreshing. Wow's got WotLK, but that's really 80% the same, 15% new and 5% rebalance (read: new imbalance )

Is any one having problems where the game just crashes randomly.

My comp is more than suitable to run this game, so I got no idea what the fuck is going on and its driving me nuts.

Yep, feel free to visit my performance thread, as that may help. Besides that there are some graphic cards etc. that have issues, sadly. I crash myself once every while, but it's alright cause there's nothing like arena where I'd lose something.

[fuuga]

ok didnt know that , i admit :) but still, its grinding, and some people said that "in warhammer there is no wow-alike grind", but i honestly must say that its just not true. PQ's are a grind, scenarios are a grind etc. I don't see it as something wrong with the game, because honestly grinding is part of a MMO game.
Also Xaphire, dont get me wrong, I do enjoy PvP, scenarios(when the randoms im playing with arent totally retarded :p ), hell, i even still enjoy battlegrounds in WoW, but during the leveling phase i would also like to get to know the world a bit more, do some questing, exploring, dungeons etc.like i did when i leveled my first char in WoW, and atm it just feels like everytime i do one of those things, i slow down my leveling by half.

Supposedly they buffed t3/t4 quest xp rewards. Can't tell you how much of a buff, but you should try that out. I imagine late t2 is still pretty painful to quest through though.