Alliance Race for DK

[Jrmint]

I know there are other threads like this but none really focus on alliance races specifically. Like many of you I plan to reroll an alliance Deathknight when WotLK is released. While I always felt like the only way to go would be male human, I started thinking about how important racials can be in arena. So I decided I would get some others opinions on what the best DK race will be for alliance.

The new human racial is nice (basically a free pvp trinket) which would never seem like a bad thing, but depending on what the new resilience cap is and how much the lvl 80 pvp trinket provides not using it could hurt a players resilience quite a bit.

Gnome is always nice for escape artist but I hate the way they look and that ability always seems to fail on me. DK cant remove diseases, poisons, etc. so dwarf might be a good choice for stoneform.

The new night elf racial doesnt really impress me that much either. What race are you guys gonna go with and why?

[Steamboat]

go gnome or go home

[Steamboat]

I think I may be model changing my gnome though :P

[Felora]

The new human racial is nice (basically a free pvp trinket) which would never seem like a bad thing, but depending on what the new resilience cap is and how much the lvl 80 pvp trinket provides not using it could hurt a players resilience quite a bit.

Yeah, the Human racial allows you to use an additional burst trinket. Or, alternatively, they may have some option like the current one that has resil and an active heal, which could add another bit of defense.

Personally, I can see DKs being very Rogue-like in that they may not have to stack resil like many classes to be viable. Between Plate armor and their plethora of defensive moves (both physical and magical), I can see not needing tons of resil. But time will tell.

Gnome is always nice for escape artist but I hate the way they look and that ability always seems to fail on me. DK cant remove diseases, poisons, etc. so dwarf might be a good choice for stoneform.

Escape Artist can no longer fail. It's a sure thing. So Gnomes will be strong in that regard. Dwarf Stoneform will also be nice, however. Keep in mind that every single healer (except Priests?) can remove Poisons, so it's not a huge deal. Stoneform will just be brutal for fighting other DKs though =D.

The new night elf racial doesnt really impress me that much either. What race are you guys gonna go with and why?

I think Human, Gnome, and Dwarf are all solid choices.

[Jrmint]

Yeah, the Human racial allows you to use an additional burst trinket. Or, alternatively, they may have some option like the current one that has resil and an active heal, which could add another bit of defense.

Personally, I can see DKs being very Rogue-like in that they may not have to stack resil like many classes to be viable. Between Plate armor and their plethora of defensive moves (both physical and magical), I can see not needing tons of resil. But time will tell.

This is what I was thinking, which makes me lean towards human. I really dont see me ever playing a gnome deathknight it just doesnt fit at all and while i dont mind gnome for other classes I dont think I could ever bring myself to roll one as a DK. Dwarves are good too but my friend is playing a druid and i dont think rolling a race just to counter your own class is a good enough reason. So I think ive just conviced myself that human is the only race I personally can rly roll.

Hopefully Blizz will change the human weapon skill racial back to 5 expertise instead of three (the change nvr rly made sense to me)

[Prov]

Having a hard time talking myself out of draenei...

But don't be like me, gnome or human f'sho.

[Steamboat]

Having a hard time talking myself out of draenei...

But don't be like me, gnome or human f'sho.

thats one of those decisions that you regret forever and every time you lose (even in situations that don't apply) you yell WHY!!!

[Prov]

thats one of those decisions that you regret forever and every time you lose (even in situations that don't apply) you yell WHY!!!

I'd regret looking like crap a lot more, if I wanted to be serious I could always pick a different race on tournament realm.

[Steamboat]

I'd regret looking like crap a lot more, if I wanted to be serious I could always pick a different race on tournament realm.

human females dont look like crap. HU males look like they have a stick up their butt, but they have a cool 2h overhead swing animation.

[Jrmint]

Yeah when it comes to 2H weapons I think human males have the better animations. But now actually I think my friend and I have decided to roll horde for the xpac (still up in the air though) so my debate now is between Undead and Bloodelf

[Prov]

human females dont look like crap. HU males look like they have a stick up their butt, but they have a cool 2h overhead swing animation.

They're kinda fat.

But yeah, I love their melee animations :p

[Oteb]

Dwarf gonna be best choice fo sho.

Immunity to 60% of DK's damage and screwing with there rune rotatation plus a big advantage over rogues.
Way better than escape artist.

[Tist]

female dwarf DK GO

[Ensipid]

Human, you get 2 racials: 2 trinkets and Stealth detect.

No contest imo.

[Mionee]

female dwarf DK GO

if only i could not bother about looks. :(
going for draenei female lol

[Steamboat]

model change :P

[Prov]

if only i could not bother about looks. :(
going for draenei female lol

You and me both.

model change :P

Meh, I've gotten banned enough times.

[Steamboat]

I have yet to be banned...I think some part of me actually wants to get banned so I can get back to life :P

[Fayde]

Wouldn't Night Elves vanish kinda own?

[juventino_hero]

DORF all the way baby! being able to counter your own class with stoneform is always a huge and match winning advantage in mirrors =]

[Maelfurion]

When I first got the idea of rerolling DK, i thought Human Female for sure. but I really dont know if sacrificing like 40-50 resil is gonna be worth it for an extra trinket.

but. I saw that human male fighting animation is pretty cool and Im a guy so i wont feel awkward when a guy is trying to be all nice to me in a party ;[

im thinking btween human or gnome. Escape artist owns but the model is fail for a DK.

Hope to see more replies for this thread.

[faction]

i've always thought dwarf has been the best alliance race for warrior. don't see why it would be different for a DK. the reason you don't hear much about it? simple, there's very few dwarf warriors

[Dyloth]

Dwarf female or gnome female. They are like the cutest thing in the game IMO :)

[juventino_hero]

dorf male and be ugly!

besides, belf chicks r the cutest!

[Pastryman]

i've always thought dwarf has been the best alliance race for warrior. don't see why it would be different for a DK. the reason you don't hear much about it? simple, there's very few dwarf warriors

Why dwarf over gnome? I think getting out of a frost nova, roots, hamstring, frost shock, wingclip, and virtually every snare would be more clutch than anything stoneform could provide.

[faction]

Yes, breaking one snare or root is definitely better than completely wiping wound/crippling and becoming immune to it.

[juventino_hero]

Why dwarf over gnome? I think getting out of a frost nova, roots, hamstring, frost shock, wingclip, and virtually every snare would be more clutch than anything stoneform could provide.

the ability to counter your own class is HUGE and will win you many mirrors (just look at ud locks against human/gnome locks), and plus 8 seconds of immunity to rogue crippling/wound, id say that is a pretty game-breaking ability right there.

[Wickler]

Why dwarf over gnome? I think getting out of a frost nova, roots, hamstring, frost shock, wingclip, and virtually every snare would be more clutch than anything stoneform could provide.

A lot of those snares can be reapplied.

Dwarves get immunity, which screws over Rogues and other DKs.

Stoneforming off wound poisons to get healed up is probably the biggest clutch you can do with a Dwarf.

[Pastryman]

Yes, breaking one snare or root is definitely better than completely wiping wound/crippling and becoming immune to it.

First off, deathknights wear plate and they also have many defensive outs and very few offensive outs. Also you saying being immune to crippling / wound is better than breaking one snare is still debatable. Stoneform is a great ability don't get me wrong, but I just see way more situations where escape artist would be greater than stoneform.

[Tist]

im going female nelf for vanishmeld

[juventino_hero]

First off, deathknights wear plate and they also have many defensive outs and very few offensive outs. Also you saying being immune to crippling / wound is better than breaking one snare is still debatable. Stoneform is a great ability don't get me wrong, but I just see way more situations where escape artist would be greater than stoneform.

Much rather be immune to posoins and diseases for 8 seconds than what EA could do. Please tell me how a hamstring/wingclip/frostshock(very small cd)/roots cant just be instantly applied right after and your stuck in the snare again and back to square 1....

The ability to destroy rogues and counter your own class in mirrors is so much bigger than removing a snare that will/can be instantly applied to you right after. After all, if their snaring you, their trying to cc you, so chances are, YOUR GOING TO BE SNARED AGAIN AS SOON AS IT BREAKS by the person trying to cc you.

but by all means, go non-dorf, the more the merrier, since ill be dorf and will quite happily take the passive advantage against every non-dorf DK.

[Wickler]

First off, deathknights wear plate and they also have many defensive outs and very few offensive outs. Also you saying being immune to crippling / wound is better than breaking one snare is still debatable. Stoneform is a great ability don't get me wrong, but I just see way more situations where escape artist would be greater than stoneform.

I thought Death Knights are able to pull guys back to them, which they can used when snared. It's not like being a warrior where you escape -> intercept. You can still do stuff when snared as a DK more then you can as a warrior...

At least I think you can... I never touched the DK or know that much about them, but I honestly think Stoneform will be that much better.

[keLston]

I wish I could play gnomes or dwarves but they give me motion sickness ;x

[Pastryman]

Much rather be immune to posoins and diseases for 8 seconds than what EA could do. Please tell me how a hamstring/wingclip/frostshock(very small cd)/roots cant just be instantly applied right after and your stuck in the snare again and back to square 1....

The ability to destroy rogues and counter your own class in mirrors is so much bigger than removing a snare that will/can be instantly applied to you right after. After all, if their snaring you, their trying to cc you, so chances are, YOUR GOING TO BE SNARED AGAIN AS SOON AS IT BREAKS by the person trying to cc you.

but by all means, go non-dorf, the more the merrier, since ill be dorf and will quite happily take the passive advantage against every non-dorf DK.
k :)

[Pastryman]

I thought Death Knights are able to pull guys back to them, which they can used when snared. It's not like being a warrior where you escape -> intercept. You can still do stuff when snared as a DK more then you can as a warrior...
If you are rooted or nova'ed and you deathgrip then chains of ice they will be close enough to you for about 1 swing.

[keLston]

Just wondering why this is such a huge deal when AJ players themselves have already demonstrated success without always relying on the most optimal race choice?

[Tist]

*looks at all the human rogues*

ya

[juventino_hero]

Just wondering why this is such a huge deal when AJ players themselves have already demonstrated success without always relying on the most optimal race choice?

well no shit that good players will do well with whatever race they choose, this isnt a suprise. Just look good players can play a shit class and do well with it, because.....they are good.

now, we are talking about how to maximise your character and the thread is about the BEST alliance DK race, not 'can i get high with a nelf DK'.

Understand now?

[Jrmint]

Yes, breaking one snare or root is definitely better than completely wiping wound/crippling and becoming immune to it.

for DKs it is...being kited is one of their biggest weakness as it stands right now, which is why im going gnome (model changing to human most likely)

[Jrmint]

Much rather be immune to posoins and diseases for 8 seconds than what EA could do. Please tell me how a hamstring/wingclip/frostshock(very small cd)/roots cant just be instantly applied right after and your stuck in the snare again and back to square 1....

The ability to destroy rogues and counter your own class in mirrors is so much bigger than removing a snare that will/can be instantly applied to you right after. After all, if their snaring you, their trying to cc you, so chances are, YOUR GOING TO BE SNARED AGAIN AS SOON AS IT BREAKS by the person trying to cc you.

but by all means, go non-dorf, the more the merrier, since ill be dorf and will quite happily take the passive advantage against every non-dorf DK.

DKs already so so well against rogues it is really a moot point. EA > stoneform for DKs...end of story.

[Kluian]

dwarf

[Maplestory]

DKs already so so well against rogues it is really a moot point. EA > stoneform for DKs...end of story.
Its not only for rogues, but also other DKs and sometimes hunter's snake trap. EA, yes removes a snare which could be possibly the biggest weakness right now for them, but if they are going to snare you, THEY WILL SNARE YOU. They'll just recast it. Its not the part where it wipes away the poisons/diseases, but the part where it makes you immune and unable to get the debuff again for the duration of stoneform.

[Steamboat]

Its not only for rogues, but also other DKs and sometimes hunter's snake trap. EA, yes removes a snare which could be possibly the biggest weakness right now for them, but if they are going to snare you, THEY WILL SNARE YOU. They'll just recast it. Its not the part where it wipes away the poisons/diseases, but the part where it makes you immune and unable to get the debuff again for the duration of stoneform.

Well thats only one instance. It is more game breaking to break a nova to catch a mage. Or if deathgrip is on cooldown and a hunter gains some range on you and concussion shots you, then EA will save your ass. Also to break natures grasp.

[Maplestory]

Well thats only one instance. It is more game breaking to break a nova to catch a mage. Or if deathgrip is on cooldown and a hunter gains some range on you and concussion shots you, then EA will save your ass. Also to break natures grasp.

I'm sure if you've ever played against a mage on a warrior. EA helps you for about 1 second until he snares you again with some random piece of BS. Hunters, lol what a joke of a class.

[Steamboat]

you know what your right, next time ill eat a shatter combo or an 8 second nova. thanks for opening my eyes

[Dynimight]

I'm sure if you've ever played against a mage on a warrior. EA helps you for about 1 second until he snares you again with some random piece of BS. Hunters, lol what a joke of a class.

...as someone who's played a gnome warrior for a long time, I can safely say that escape artist is a game breaking talent. There is no way I would have traded it for any other racial (including stoneform) at any point in TBC.

The meta game has changed so much with wrath that I don't think anyone can predict the best DK racial yet. Also, DKs can't be directly compared to warriors in terms of racials because they are so completely different.

My DK on beta is a dwarf. While having stoneform has been nice in many cases, I can think of just as many cases where I'd have gladly traded that stoneform for escape artist. They are used for very different scenarios, and they'll both be quite useful. Escape artist has nearly half the cooldown that stoneform, which is definitely something to consider.

I'm still undecided about what race my DK will be.

[Elraen]

Human, you get 2 racials: 2 trinkets and Stealth detect.

No contest imo.

^^

[Elraen]

Why dwarf over gnome? I think getting out of a frost nova, roots, hamstring, frost shock, wingclip, and virtually every snare would be more clutch than anything stoneform could provide.

Why JUST be able to get out of snares, when you can also remove stuns and fears as well by being human?

[Vlada]

Why JUST be able to get out of snares, when you can also remove stuns and fears as well by being human?

it shares CD , gnome can get out of the snare AND trinket other CC, don't compare those please
female gnome with pink hair tbh

[Jrmint]

Its not only for rogues, but also other DKs and sometimes hunter's snake trap. EA, yes removes a snare which could be possibly the biggest weakness right now for them, but if they are going to snare you, THEY WILL SNARE YOU. They'll just recast it. Its not the part where it wipes away the poisons/diseases, but the part where it makes you immune and unable to get the debuff again for the duration of stoneform.

its not about become immune to snare, its about removing a snare and getting make on the other player fast to throw off what they are doing, put them out of rhythm and in a situation where they are much more likely to make a mistake or panic. And with hunters again, snake trap is pretty crappy and I would much rather have a way to get out of one of their snares rather than a snake trap they probably wont use anyways (but its guaranteed they will use a snare).

if you truly believe that plz roll dorf im not trying to stop you, but you are wrong

[juventino_hero]

its not about become immune to snare, its about removing a snare and getting make on the other player fast to throw off what they are doing, put them out of rhythm and in a situation where they are much more likely to make a mistake or panic. And with hunters again, snake trap is pretty crappy and I would much rather have a way to get out of one of their snares rather than a snake trap they probably wont use anyways (but its guaranteed they will use a snare).

if you truly believe that plz roll dorf im not trying to stop you, but you are wrong

so like, using stoneform to remove all posoins and diseases, wont like, "put them out of rythem and in a situation they are much more likely to mistake or panic"????? i fail to see the difference.

[faction]

yeah man removing all poisons and diseases and becomign immune to them is nothing, it doesnt have great synergy with rune tap, doesnt work on tab shivs, doesnt cripple other dk's, etc

[Pastryman]

yeah man removing a snare to help you get on your target doesnt have great synergy with a MELEE class... hey guys if i make a sarcastic remark does it make me cool like faction?

[juventino_hero]

wow, you sound angry pastryman.

i guess crippling posoin isnt considered a snare ey? and you are aware that only about 30% of DK dmg is from melee hits right?

the ability to counter your own class in mirrors is the biggest advantage you can have. DK's already rape druid teams, so escaping a NG isnt that big of deal.

you really underestimate the power of stoneform....

[Mionee]

i guess crippling posoin isnt considered a snare ey? and you are aware that only about 30% of DK dmg is from melee hits right?

the ability to counter your own class in mirrors is the biggest advantage you can have. DK's already rape druid teams, so escaping a NG isnt that big of deal.

you really underestimate the power of stoneform....


Dealing 30% of white damage only doesn't mean your doing 70% due to diseases. Saying it isn't gamebreaking would be a lie, but you can still dps without your diseases you know. Obli still hits for 1K+ EASILY, and doesn't rely as much on diseases once glyphed. You still have Frost Strike/DC/Gargoyle. You still have non diseases dependant abilities such as icy touch.

EA seems much much better to me, especially with no spammable snare and considering that it will no longer resist.

[Fayde]

I'm definitely going Gnome.

[Dynimight]

wow, you sound angry pastryman.

i guess crippling posoin isnt considered a snare ey? and you are aware that only about 30% of DK dmg is from melee hits right?

the ability to counter your own class in mirrors is the biggest advantage you can have. DK's already rape druid teams, so escaping a NG isnt that big of deal.

you really underestimate the power of stoneform....

And I think you're underestimating escape artist =/

Less than 30% of DK dmg is from WHITE hits, not melee hits. Most of your damage is still coming from melee range.

Stoneform is great, but so is escape artist. I really don't think one is going to give a sizable advantage over the other overall. Rogues really don't seem very scary as a DK either.

[Pastryman]

wow, you sound angry pastryman.

i guess crippling posoin isnt considered a snare ey? and you are aware that only about 30% of DK dmg is from melee hits right?

the ability to counter your own class in mirrors is the biggest advantage you can have. DK's already rape druid teams, so escaping a NG isnt that big of deal.

you really underestimate the power of stoneform....
yeah 30% of our damage is from melee hits so do you do the other 70% when they are not in melee range?:rolleyes:

[juventino_hero]

yeah 30% of our damage is from melee hits so do you do the other 70% when they are not in melee range?:rolleyes:

your right, i miswrote what i was trying to say.

but neways, my point was, that a snare likely to be applied again is weaker than an IMMUNITY for 8 seconds and the ability to counter your own class in mirrors.

neways, cbf arguing, both dorf and noam are great races, go with whatever you like best, as both will have advantages against different make-ups

[Abeyance]

I think the point of EA is to break roots more than snares. Snares will get reapplied and breaking snares really isn't that gamebreaking. Breaking roots is much more gamebreaking so stop complaining that a snare will get reapplied because that isn't what you are getting most of out of EA.

EA: Breaks CROWD CONTROL (Roots), Short CD
SF: Poison/Disease IMMUNITY, Long CD

I have never played a DK so I could not tell you the merits or the demerits of either, but as Dyn said, they both have their strengths. Stop saying stupid things along the line of "if you EA a snare it will get reapplied" when EA's strength is in removing roots, removing snares is just a nice addition.

[Lysander]

I think the point of EA is to break roots more than snares. Snares will get reapplied and breaking snares really isn't that gamebreaking. Breaking roots is much more gamebreaking so stop complaining that a snare will get reapplied because that isn't what you are getting most of out of EA.

EA: Breaks CROWD CONTROL (Roots), Short CD
SF: Poison/Disease IMMUNITY, Long CD

I have never played a DK so I could not tell you the merits or the demerits of either, but as Dyn said, they both have their strengths. Stop saying stupid things along the line of "if you EA a snare it will get reapplied" when EA's strength is in removing roots, removing snares is just a nice addition.

The cooldown difference isn't that major when you factor in how long the effect lasts. 1 min 45 sec cooldown versus 2 min 50 sec downtime, its only really like 1 minute difference.

But I agree, the difference is minor. Stone Form is a much more potent effect, but probably won't be as required as Escape Artist. So lets put it this way:

When a Rogue (esp. Mutilate) team focuses you, Stone Form blows Escape Artist away by 1000000x. The rest of the time, EA > Stone Form. The question is...

How many times are Rogue teams actually going to try to kill you with a 12 second Shield Wall on a 1 minute cooldown, a 10 second CloS on a 1 minute cooldown, an Aura that puts your armor up to 50% on demand, if Frost another 1 minute cooldown that increases Parry and Armor by quite a bit, plate armor, Blood Tap, and of course the ability to go sword/board if absolutely necessary?

Who knows? Only time will tell.

[evenn]

The cooldown difference isn't that major when you factor in how long the effect lasts. 1 min 45 sec cooldown versus 2 min 50 sec downtime, its only really like 1 minute difference.

But I agree, the difference is minor. Stone Form is a much more potent effect, but probably won't be as required as Escape Artist. So lets put it this way:

When a Rogue (esp. Mutilate) team focuses you, Stone Form blows Escape Artist away by 1000000x. The rest of the time, EA > Stone Form. The question is...

How many times are Rogue teams actually going to try to kill you with a 12 second Shield Wall on a 1 minute cooldown, a 10 second CloS on a 1 minute cooldown, an Aura that puts your armor up to 50% on demand, if Frost another 1 minute cooldown that increases Parry and Armor by quite a bit, plate armor, Blood Tap, and of course the ability to go sword/board if absolutely necessary?

Who knows? Only time will tell.

dks cant use shields

[faction]

Yep, the point of EA is (mostly) to break snares.

Thing is breaking snares isn't really paticulary useful. It's good against druid roots... that's about it really. Mages have far too many roots for it to be too useful especially if you're attacking them, you can break the odd imp hamstring, but sorry, that's not any better than stoneform. saying "but rouge wont b problem for dk" is a load of shit, the closest class to a rogue counter in BC (Warrior) was one of the classes that got the most benefit out of stoneform.

[Tist]

vanishmeld to avoid cc before it even happens imo

[Fayde]

vanishmeld to avoid cc before it even happens imo
This.

I don't understand why everyone is arguing gnome versus dwarf as the best race. Gnomes remove snares, dwarves remove poisons/diseaes and become immune to them, and night elves AVOID CC. Vanish sheep, vanish roots, vanish death coil etc. Can use it to avoid damage as well by vanishing, say, a frost bolt.
Not saying night elf is the best race, just saying it deserves a part in the discussion, as it is just as good as dwarf and gnome.

[Dynimight]

DKs have multiple interrupts/silences and ways to avoid CCs (hello glyphed AMS). Plus, being able to get out of a CC/root is often > avoiding one because you put it on DR.

Shadowmeld root, 10 sec root, 5 sec root, 3 sec root...or root, escape artist, 5 sec root, 3 sec root. That's 18 seconds vs. 8 seconds of CC.

Granted, that's just one particular example, and shadowmeld is definitely useful, but I don't think I'd rank it up there with escape artist and stoneform.

Shadowmeld for druids and rogues is a bit more potent. Lolvanish.

[Jrmint]

dks cant use shields

and they left out bone armor...another 40% dmg reduction for a few hits every minute, if timed well it could be deadly for killing other teams burst on you. if you are the target to begin with.

[Steamboat]

"avoiding" a sheep/fear is really just trading globals. chances are your just gonna eat another sheep. Its not like it puts it on DR.

[Fayde]

"avoiding" a sheep/fear is really just trading globals. chances are your just gonna eat another sheep. Its not like it puts it on DR.

I hope you're not serious.

[Abeyance]

Yep, the point of EA is (mostly) to break snares.

Thing is breaking snares isn't really paticulary useful. It's good against druid roots... that's about it really. Mages have far too many roots for it to be too useful especially if you're attacking them, you can break the odd imp hamstring, but sorry, that's not any better than stoneform. saying "but rouge wont b problem for dk" is a load of shit, the closest class to a rogue counter in BC (Warrior) was one of the classes that got the most benefit out of stoneform.

I have not played a DK or been on beta at all, but from their plethora of defensive talents and high amount of utility (Silence/Kick/GETOVERHERE!/etc) that I foresee most teams trying to CC them rather than focus them. Of course I could be wrong, but with this presumption, EA is better than SF. Yes, Mages have 2 sets of roots on different DR's, but breaking an 8 sec root is pretty strong, and if the Mage is not the one you are focusing, you are unlikely to be hit by the root procs (Frostbite/Shattered Barrier?) and instead only by FN/Freeze.

Warriors were the victims of quite a bit of CC in BC, but got focused for quick swaps (because they were often sitting in Berserker and could then be focused and forced to stay in Berserker before they could go Defensive or Spell Reflect or Intervene, and now they can Shield Wall too). But the point here is that Warriors were the victims of quite a lot of CC and that if they were switched to it was before they could deploy their defensive talents, or that by the time they could, they would be too low for it to matter (sub 10 or 20%).

I haven't looked too closely so I don't know if any of the DK's abilities can be used like Barkskin (inside of CC), but if they can, their viability as a swap target makes them much less attractive. Plus if they are not controlled by a stun for the duration of the swap, their ability to negate incoming caster damage is tremendous (Silence/Kick/Deathgrip/AMS/etc) as well as any damage at all. They also don't have the advantage of taking an extra 10% damage like a Warrior sitting in Bers during a Sheep who gets Shattered out of their Sheep.

Because DK's are likely to be the victims of CC due to their utility and resistance to damage, I would have to say I would put EA over the top of SF because of this. But I could be wrong, DK's may not be CC'ed by roots as much as I thought and they could be more viable DPS targets than I have put forth above, if either of those are true, SF might end being stronger than EA, but only time will tell.

[Tist]

DKs have multiple interrupts/silences and ways to avoid CCs (hello glyphed AMS). Plus, being able to get out of a CC/root is often > avoiding one because you put it on DR.

Shadowmeld root, 10 sec root, 5 sec root, 3 sec root...or root, escape artist, 5 sec root, 3 sec root. That's 18 seconds vs. 8 seconds of CC.

Granted, that's just one particular example, and shadowmeld is definitely useful, but I don't think I'd rank it up there with escape artist and stoneform.

Shadowmeld for druids and rogues is a bit more potent. Lolvanish.

Except you can't EA or Stoneform fear, sheep or cyclone.

:)

[Maelfurion]

I hear a lot of Dward VS Gnome. what about human? do they come close?

Is Stoneform that great? what if u got a combo that doesnt apply poison? so dwarfs would only b effective against rogues/DKs? I sort of wanna get EA but I just cant play a gnome...

[Abeyance]

Basically Human gives you +X AP where X is the best trinket available to you at 80.

Extra stats just don't seem that impressive compared to EA/SF/Shadowmeld. 3 abilities that can get rid of/stop you from getting snares, roots, cc, etc seem better than a few stats.

[Steamboat]

yep gnome and model change is my solution :P

[Maplestory]

I'm basically going to assume that the top tier classes in WOTLK are going to be ret,mage,dk. In that sense EA and SF are both equal I would think because they both have a top tier class that the racial really benefits them in. EA for the mage and SF for the DK. In that case it would just come down to personal preference and comp composition. Offensive = EA and Defensive = SF. I personally will probably go dwarf, but am looking into the gnome factors too. Just trying to get the most out of my racial, since you still get 5 mace expertise from dwarf.

[Steamboat]

I'm basically going to assume that the top tier classes in WOTLK are going to be ret,mage,dk. In that sense EA and SF are both equal I would think because they both have a top tier class that the racial really benefits them in. EA for the mage and SF for the DK. In that case it would just come down to personal preference and comp composition. Offensive = EA and Defensive = SF. I personally will probably go dwarf, but am looking into the gnome factors too. Just trying to get the most out of my racial, since you still get 5 mace expertise from dwarf.

DK's can't use maces

[Maplestory]

DK's can't use maces

wow how gay.

[Guntt]

I think I'll go Dwarf.

[Desmond]

DK's can't use maces

Doublecheck DKs and maces. They can. They just have to go train the skill and it starts at 1 rather than 270 or w/e Swords and Axes start at.

[Steamboat]

Doublecheck DKs and maces. They can. They just have to go train the skill and it starts at 1 rather than 270 or w/e Swords and Axes start at.

really? good to know. I thought I saw a blue a long time ago that said just axes and swords.

[Hidden]

really? good to know. I thought I saw a blue a long time ago that said just axes and swords.

He's right though, DKs could wear Maces the last time I checked on Beta. I'm probably not going to wear any anyway, they don't fit to DKs in my opinion.

[Abeyance]

I'm basically going to assume that the top tier classes in WOTLK are going to be ret,mage,dk. In that sense EA and SF are both equal I would think because they both have a top tier class that the racial really benefits them in. EA for the mage and SF for the DK. In that case it would just come down to personal preference and comp composition. Offensive = EA and Defensive = SF. I personally will probably go dwarf, but am looking into the gnome factors too. Just trying to get the most out of my racial, since you still get 5 mace expertise from dwarf.

I agree with this analysis, but the way I see it is that the DK has plenty of defensive utility to stay alive and not die, but little in the way to avoid being kited/cc'ed (save Silence and Kick). EA seems to address more weaknesses of the class than SF does.

[Maplestory]

I agree with this analysis, but the way I see it is that the DK has plenty of defensive utility to stay alive and not die, but little in the way to avoid being kited/cc'ed (save Silence and Kick). EA seems to address more weaknesses of the class than SF does.

I see where you debate comes in and I agree, but I'm not sure if thats worth losing a game breaking skill against a DK.

[juventino_hero]

hmmm, i dunno whether id go with axes, mace or sword. After being a hunter for so long, ive grown tired of axes (though fond of them at the same time). I think maces are ugly. Guess itll be sword for me =D

[Abeyance]

I see where you debate comes in and I agree, but I'm not sure if thats worth losing a game breaking skill against a DK.

Agreed. In TBC, if Rogues were garbage, Stoneform would have been garbage. But it was great (especially for Priests who would have had little in the way of self-peeling save Fear) due to the strength of Rogues.

With the way people have been talking about WotLK, it is going to be about Pallies/DKs/Mages. SF is strong vs DKs, EA is strong vs Mages. I guess it depends which you would expect to see more of in arenas. If you expect Mages to be more dominant than DKs, then go Gnome. If you expect DKs to be more dominant, go Dwarf. With this analysis, Dwarf seems stronger because it seems like DK is stronger than Mage. However, it seems like EA is stronger versus a Mage than SF is versus a DK (though I don't know about this 100% because I have not played as or against DK at all).

Just a few more 2 cents. :P

[Maplestory]

faction where are you. I need your analysis on what race to go.

[Roat]

Also take into consideration if you are running double dps or dps + healer. Stoneform IMO is the best with a healer because it will allow you to be healed more effeciently against DKs and Rogues and to a lesser extent other melee (because of the armor).

However if I am running double dps, I want Human for the extra DPS trinket and a tad bit of expertise (getting parry/dodged is especially bad) or gnome to stay on your target.

I'm going with a Dward on one account, and either a human or gnome later on another account depending on what I percieve to be any issues the DK might have. Who knows, I may end up being a Draenei or Nelf second (although chances are slim).

[Maplestory]

I think a lot of people overlook the fact that DKs also have first tier toughness. That along with the metagem can give you some sick snare reduction. So in that case is EA actually that game breaking? If anything those talents reduce the chance that you are actually snared/rooted and the need for EA and can go SF, but in the other hand having EA would make you somewhat hard to snare machine.

[Steamboat]

I think a lot of people overlook the fact that DKs also have first tier toughness. That along with the metagem can give you some sick snare reduction. So in that case is EA actually that game breaking? If anything those talents reduce the chance that you are actually snared/rooted and the need for EA and can go SF, but in the other hand having EA would make you somewhat hard to snare machine.

well the utility from EA is mainly for frost novas and roots really. even if its just to mitigate a mage's damage it's worth it.

[Jrmint]

I think a lot of people overlook the fact that DKs also have first tier toughness. That along with the metagem can give you some sick snare reduction. So in that case is EA actually that game breaking? If anything those talents reduce the chance that you are actually snared/rooted and the need for EA and can go SF, but in the other hand having EA would make you somewhat hard to snare machine.

yeah EA is more used to break roots not snares that can be easily reapplied after you remove them. Breaking out of a nova to avoid a shatter combo or getting out of roots to get back on the druid. Basically an extra cc break. And yes DK can deathgrip players back to them while rooted but the ability to completely get out of snares is great to have as a class that cannot do it themselves and is required to be in melee range to do many of their abilities.

[Roat]

... the ability to completely get out of snares is great to have as a class that cannot do it themselves and is required to be in melee range to do many of their abilities.

That is all melee except for feral druids. I believe it is too early to KNOW what will be the best, because you don't know which class will be your most viable target in given scenarios.

As a warrior, I found myself in many games where I said, "I could have won that if I had EA". WOTLK will be completely different in some respects. For example, I won't be chasing druids trying to catch them because I can remove their hots and they will have less time to drink. But then again, this might not be the case because at 80 on LIVE it might be proven that X is better than y.

Also, from experience as a warrior, Nova doesn't really scare me because I can SR the inc from bolt. The stun that the mages partner will use or the mage themselves now is what the killer is.

That being said, it would seem like Ret Pally would be the overall best partner for the DK because of the utility both classes have to offer and their synergy with one another. Quite frankly no class really scares me with a ret pally/shockadin, no matter what race I am. I still think SF will out perform EA as a DK + Healer team, but EA will be overall more useful as 2 dps... (except when fighting rogue when SF is a slow break)

[Azazela]

I'm going Night Elf.

Vanishing deathcoils, pyroblasts, or just sheeps/fears/cyclones is nice. They also make the best PVE tanks, and have a vanish for soloing mobs.

[Artemai]

I'm going Night Elf.

Vanishing deathcoils, pyroblasts, or just sheeps/fears/cyclones is nice. They also make the best PVE tanks, and have a vanish for soloing mobs.

This for me when I make my DK after lvln my warrior up :)

Female undead Nelf DK <3

[Roat]

I think now Dwarf would make the best tank since they get +5 expertise on mace + stoneform...Well maybe not since threat isn't an issue anymore.

See ya all tonight at Ebon Hold!