Exploit abuser with SR gear is getting out of hand

[efa]

Loss a 100 ratings tonight to 2 teams with high Shadow resist paladin. Its not the aura obviously since the paladin resisted my spells 8 times in a row (took me 4 cast to finally get a CoS on him) It doesnt help much even with my 40 spell penetration and -88 resist from CoS. The pally still resist my spells 2 out of 3.

There is a known bug where people can determine their opponent before arena start.

Created an Alt on their server and ask them if they are using that exploit, they are so honest to admit that they are abusing it and said warlock is overpower and its a fair way to counter us :mad:. Reported to GM and they said they are looking into it already... How can they end a session with people abusing exploit for their gladiator -_-;

These kind of abuser is getting out of hand in my battlegroup...

The only way I can think of to counter these team is to use the same exploit to determine them before arena start and prepare a full spell penetration set for these abuser.

[Wormed]

Either:
Zero, null, absolutely none gear changing (gear, not weapons)
or
Fix the /ignore & /whisper exploit

L2Play Blizzard:confused:

[jpz109]

/signed. Played a sl/sl warlock/holy pally in my 2s yesterday. Pally had 136 resil, ~2100 healing, and 60 SR just from his CLOAK + Cloak enchant. His partner had the same cloak, and ~1300 shadow damage. They put on shadow resist aura, and that cloak alone negated my 60 spell penetration.

[Duvex]

I thought they fixed /ignore?

And /whisper works both ways. Throw on some penetration gear if they message you?

[Wormed]

I thought they fixed /ignore?

And /whisper works both ways. Throw on some penetration gear if they message you?

There is barely any penetration gear besides gemming yourself with full 10 spell penetration, which would require a second set of arena gear, except the ring and cloak which already have spell pen. that everyone has, but gemming yourself with full spell pen still isn't enough against BT SR and could be more costly too.

[Deshi]

Spam searing pain :P.

But yea they really do need to fix that, I haven't run into that problem on my battlegroup tho, alot of teams did switch shadow resist before the change.

[Xanzibar]

I really can't understand why blizzard didn't fix this, since like 80% of those with epic SR gear and doing arena, abuses this. Guildie of mine hovering around 1700 rating even uses it ("lolol won 21rating vs sp lock")

[Lylona]

Stopped 2on2 because of this long time ago :S

Dots ticking for 100 suck hard.

[razed]

rng is overall pretty lame

cap resists

[Hoove]

If they put in the time and gold to get SR you should do the same and get Pen. This is not an exploit or bug they are using in game mechanics to check if you are in the game. You can do the same.

[Sylvar]

far from everyone has shadow resistancegear ( green of the shadow gimps stats too much). My only suggestion is to party with an elemental shaman for the spellhit totem and having two kinds of damage.

on a sidenote: elemental shaman leatherworkers must farm nature-immuun mobs for their elemental leathergear,forcing the shaman to melee it with their 40 dps daggers. if they think that is fine I doubt they'll change it for shadow users

[Usho]

anyone could fill me in on what exactly this exploit is?

[razed]

If they put in the time and gold to get SR you should do the same and get Pen. This is not an exploit or bug they are using in game mechanics to check if you are in the game. You can do the same.

yeah if i could get 40 pen per piece and having to use an exploit to counter their exploit

it is an exploit, if you dont think so, you are indeed stupid

[Tyveris]

yeah if i could get 40 pen per piece and having to use an exploit to counter their exploit

it is an exploit, if you dont think so, you are indeed stupid
It has to be an exploit because they have no intention of allowing you to see who you are fighting beforehand as can be seen by the other fixes they have made to prevent it (remember the combat log?).

I think they haven't come up with a way to fix it yet because it must be a known issue at this point.

Actually, maybe a better word than exploit is unintended behavior :)

[Steamboat]

I remember playing a team with my SL/SL buddy who went all out for 350 SR (I think before they changed gearswapping) and they had such little resist they sacrificed too much hp/resil and I wrecked them single handedly lol

[Hoove]

I remember playing a team with my SL/SL buddy who went all out for 350 SR (I think before they changed gearswapping) and they had such little resist they sacrificed too much hp/resil and I wrecked them single handedly lol

My teammates and I all have the full BT SR sets. We do find many matches even with the best SR gear sometimes our damage is still too gimped had we run in normal gear many times we would have won.

[Hoove]

Actually, maybe a better word than exploit is unintended behavior :)

It's no different than using /sit. Ignore is ingame functionality while not intended to be used in Arena, it can be and is not an exploit for this reason.

[rhyn]

It's no different than using /sit. Ignore is ingame functionality while not intended to be used in Arena, it can be and is not an exploit for this reason.Abusing in-game functionality to do something that the developers did not intend. That sounds like an exploit to me, but it all depends on how you want to define that word. In either case, it's obvious that players are not intended to know exactly who they are fighting before an arena match. I'd love to hear a good argument that contradicts that.

[Tyveris]

I think the word exploit has a stigma attached to it that somehow implies illegal/will get banned. It is perfectly legal to use ignore to find out who your opponents are. It is also unintended for you to find out who your opponents are this way. Whether or not you consider it to be an exploit is dependent on your definition of the word exploit (illegal or unintended?).

[Rycho]

if you're good you don't need sr

just like if you're good you don't need to point-feed

[Hoove]

if you're good you don't need sr

just like if you're good you don't need to point-feed

If you're good and are a hardcore pvper you will have SR and/or Pen.

[razed]

not really, you are just justifying what is clearly unintended

[Sykeasaurus]

It's not intended.

Not really sure why there's even an argument about it, but okay.

[Ghalanah]

not really

stop making yourself look like a fool by justifying what is clearly unintended and stupid

Top pvpers will always use every advantage they can get. The simple answer is that the mechanics have not been addressed by blizzard the only thing you can do now is get as much spell pen as you can for when an sr situation arises. It doesn't justify that scouting/sr can be considered a exploitable mechanic but you mind as well try your best now rather then later IF they fix it.

[Caligula]

If they put in the time and gold to get SR you should do the same and get Pen. This is not an exploit or bug they are using in game mechanics to check if you are in the game. You can do the same.

Yeah add an armour set that gives me 75% melee damage reduction while slightly gimping my other stats and I'll stop whining about shadow resist.

[Rycho]

Yeah add an armour set that gives me 75% melee damage reduction while slightly gimping my other stats and I'll stop whining about shadow resist.

also 75% dodge for stuff like hamstring and shiv

[Tyveris]

Thread cleaned up.

Stop taking jabs at each other and focus on the topic please. If you want to make personal attacks at each other please take it to the Rant Room.

[Rycho]

how can anyone think sr is good for arena competition

[Neb]

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=1570817532&postId=15706263523&sid=1#24

I would think people would take a look at blue posts like this and realize it goes both ways. Being unbalanced can mean more than just one thing. 2v2 may be unbalanced in the fact that warlocks are quite powerful in the bracket, but it may also be unbalanced in the fact that teams can easily negate other certain classes without losing much.

It's the fact that this is 2v2, not arena. You won't see people throwing on SR gear in 5's or 3's (depending upon the team) just because one warlock or a warlock and a shadow priest. If you don't like people negating all or part of your damage than play a 3's or 5's team.

[efa]

Xyoii speak exactly the same as one of the abuser I talk to yesterday.

There is a cloak which give 60SR with enchant (still have hell lot of STA) and a trinket as well. Those 2 items + SR aura from pally is painful enough and the pally wont loss too much +healing.

At the mean time I am trying to get +100 base spell penetration on my standard set just to counter this.

[razed]

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=1570817532&postId=15706263523&sid=1#24

I would think people would take a look at blue posts like this and realize it goes both ways. Being unbalanced can mean more than just one thing. 2v2 may be unbalanced in the fact that warlocks are quite powerful in the bracket, but it may also be unbalanced in the fact that teams can easily negate other certain classes without losing much.

It's the fact that this is 2v2, not arena. You won't see people throwing on SR gear in 5's or 3's (depending upon the team) just because one warlock or a warlock and a shadow priest. If you don't like people negating all or part of your damage than play a 3's or 5's team.

idk my bff yog loses to sr teams - which is in 3v3

earlier today we stopped queueing 3s because we were worried people who have used sr on us in 2s and were going to do the same in 3s

team pandemic used sr last night in 5s

serennia used sr in every bracket

do i really need to keep going~

also, if warlocks are so overpowered in 2s, and people use a set to counter them, i feel we should be given a set to counter warriors as well because they're quite powerful in 2s. maybe we need a set of some type of gear to counter resto druids in 2s. do you see how stupid your arguement is?

[efa]

I think SR is less effective in 3s, they are generally only useful when the only damage output from team is shadow damage.

Warlock usually run with warrior/rogue in 3s anyway.

[Hoove]

i feel we should be given a set to counter warriors


I agree. I'd love to see all types of options and for them to leave gear switching in Arena. I'm the type of person who has 4-5 different item rack sets available at ay given moment.There just isn't much melee mitigation we can stack and probably never will be. Still need to be prepared for what is there though, SR and PEN. Either way 2v2 is all about dodging at high rating which sucks.

Warr/Druid doesn't require dodging anyone.
Lock/Druid doesn't require dodging anyone until they are queued against SR opponents.
Everyone else requires dodging.

Conclusion Nerf Druids. Warlocks are still ridiculously powerful though.

[Wormed]

If they put in the time and gold to get SR you should do the same and get Pen. This is not an exploit or bug they are using in game mechanics to check if you are in the game. You can do the same.
this requires a second complete set of merciless gladiator and about 50g per Star of Elune on my server. More expensive then getting 24 people to help you get SR imo.

[Taffie]

My partner and I were thinking about using SR, but it would just seem like cheating our way to Gladiator.

Usually, when we lose a game it's because the team has a Warlock or Spriest in it.

As to the person who said that you don't need SR if you're good, I really don't agree with that. If you're good and fight a good Warlock team, well.. Many teams get destroyed by Warlocks. Good Warlock/Rogue and Spriest/Rouge teams give us a lot of issues, including an occasional Druid/Warlock. It doesn't mean we're bad when we lose. It means that they outplayed us. If we had used SR, then we would have outplayed them.

[Hoove]

this requires a second complete set of merciless gladiator and about 50g per Star of Elune on my server. More expensive then getting 24 people to help you get SR imo.

Very few people raid BT at least on my server only 2 guilds Horde side and we are high pop. Each person in my team spent ~4k on BT SR gear and enchants.

[Wormed]

Very few people raid BT at least on my server only 2 guilds Horde side and we are high pop. Each person in my team spent ~4k on BT SR gear and enchants.

Generally guilds will give SR to their healers for free for the MH fight that requires it. Healers from my guild barely spent a cent getting their SR.

It's not like having 350 SR is just making it a bit more fair for the wearer, it makes them ridiculously overpowered and makes the Warlock/Spriest useless.
My 41 point talent ticking for 100, Balanced.

[buena]

The resist system always has seemed a little bit half-baked. At first blizzard was giving people small amounts of resists on gear upgrades (remember t1 and t2?) which frankly made sense. Just as better gear had better melee defense (armor), it would also have better caster defense (resists).

The problem is that raiding and PvP collide on this point. Raiders don't want any of their gear's itemvalue wasted on token amounts of resists. So why not only put it on PvP gear, or just eliminate resists entirely? Because that would reduce the complexity of raiding, disallow raid designers from making resist fights, and make several less sets of gear for people to chase after (people love getting new gear!).

Then the resist-fight-specific gear philosophy came in and stomped all over the arena model. While resist gear wouldn't be worth wearing against a large number of unpredictable opponents such as in a battleground, it certainly WOULD be worth wearing against a small number of known opponents. Such as in an arena match. Blizzard's idea was to try to prevent players from changing their gear to match their opponents. This can only ever partially succeed at best. Even if the ignore and whisper loopholes are closed, people at the highest ratings can (and probably will) simply watch to see who is entering arenas at the same time, and make alts on other accounts and servers to do the same.

I would suggest a radical soloution: make resists do nothing in PvP. No effect whatsoever. Caster damage would be unmigitatable and you could just balance around that assumption. Spell penetration would be eliminated or only used only for very specific PvE encounters. I think that anything short of this is an incomplete soloution; players will find a way to gear for specific opponents and you can't take out resist gear because of its raiding uses.

[Amenti]

Loading up your S1 gear with spell penetration gems isn't nearly as costly as it sounds. I've got a full set and you really lose minimal stats by doing so.

[Neb]

idk my bff yog loses to sr teams - which is in 3v3

earlier today we stopped queueing 3s because we were worried people who have used sr on us in 2s and were going to do the same in 3s

team pandemic used sr last night in 5s

serennia used sr in every bracket

do i really need to keep going~

also, if warlocks are so overpowered in 2s, and people use a set to counter them, i feel we should be given a set to counter warriors as well because they're quite powerful in 2s. maybe we need a set of some type of gear to counter resto druids in 2s. do you see how stupid your arguement is?

Are you really going to sit here and say people use SR in 3's and 5's as much as they do in 2's? Are you going to say that there are as many 3's and 5's teams that rely only on shadow damage as there is the same in 2's teams?

Don't question my arguement, since it isn't an arguement. The fact is 2's is unbalanced. Are 3's and 5's balanced in terms of people wearing SR as opposed to 2's? No, of course not. but if you don't build your team entirely around shadow damage than of course you won't see teams throwing on SR to fight back. This is just common sense. You're trying to say that everyone should have a counter to something strong in 2's...which I said was unbalanced? Try playing 5's if you want the most balanced arena play; otherwise just QQ.

[Tyveris]

Are you really going to sit here and say people use SR in 3's and 5's as much as they do in 2's? Are you going to say that there are as many 3's and 5's teams that rely only on shadow damage as there is the same in 2's teams?

Don't question my arguement, since it isn't an arguement. The fact is 2's is unbalanced. Are 3's and 5's balanced in terms of people wearing SR as opposed to 2's? No, of course not. but if you don't build your team entirely around shadow damage than of course you won't see teams throwing on SR to fight back. This is just common sense. You're trying to say that everyone should have a counter to something strong in 2's...which I said was unbalanced? Try playing 5's if you want the most balanced arena play; otherwise just QQ.

I'm on his 3s team. We run Druid/Mage/Lock. Imagine now if the lock is taken out of the picture. What is Mage/Druid going to do in a 2v3 scenario against good players wearing subpar gear?

Before 2.2 I threw on SR gear in a few 3v3 games, and it made a huge difference. Instead of being chain silenced, feared, coiled, etc., all of a sudden I'm landing polys and the game has been completely changed.

I was doing AB premades yesterday and guess what, the opposing team decides to throw on SR gear. Neutralizes quite a few of our players.

Resistance gear is a real problem and they need to solve it. I don't look forward to the day fire mages become OP (41/20 + trainable IB with mana changes?) and everyone starts wearing heroic loot FR gear. Actually, I remember at 60 in AV when people had lots of fire gear and I was playing elemental, it was frustrating as hell.

It is a problem, should be fixed. The argument seemed reasonable when people said it only affects purely shadow based teams, but this is not true anymore. You don't even need to gimp your stats that badly to get 200+ SR with BT epics.

[Eriul]

My 41 point talent ticking for 100, Balanced.


Sorry just had to quote this before I post my own argument. Your 41 point talent ticking for 100? That's sooo sad...maybe I would feel more sympathy when my 41 point talent doesn't get dispelled by a GD pet. As well as my 31 point talent, getting owned by pet /target mana tide totem macros. Or maybe Fel puppy's having better reactions then my NS heal macro. Or maybe fel puppy's seeing through stealth after a vanish. Why do I have a hard time having sympathy for warlocks?

Now, Just for my input for the resist gear(Which may be taken in any way, I might be seen as a fool.)

I honestly, do not mind it a bit. Sadly, it's hard to get SR. I haven't even bothered. Of course my 3v3 is only 2200 but, still. I am the only healer and 1 silence could wreck our team. I think it's a great counter to warlocks. But besides that, you're nerfing yourself by wearing it. Maybe warlocks are getting to see how it feels when you aren't in complete control of a fight. *shrug* I ain't here to QQ about locks. But this is a QQ post, and honestly, build a Spell Pen set or go to the Official forums, or to the rant forums. I do think though, that it does need to get fixed eventually. 2.4 mages will QQ over fire resist gear. Sadly, resist gear wasn't intended for arenas or they wouldn't be constantly trying to reduce gear changing, and reducing the amount of +resist on gear.

[Hoove]

It's not like having 350 SR is just making it a bit more fair for the wearer, it makes them ridiculously overpowered and makes the Warlock/Spriest useless.
My 41 point talent ticking for 100, Balanced.

While I see your reasoning I have to disagree with the term "useless". My teammates and I lose just as many in SR just because our damage is gimped. The fact that my partner and I can run full BT SR gear in 2v2 and still lose to Lock/Healer shows how OP you are, and it does in fact begin to balance things. Sad that it takes 350 SR to balance things. I can say for the most part that is due to the opponent not recognizing we have SR right away. When they do for locks at least they can usually throw in enough fire damage to negate the SR and still win. Of course I can see where it's more powerful for Warrior or Rogue but it's not that powerful for me as a mage as we rely on burst since our mana efficiency sucks.

To flip the script for a second do any of you warlocks ever face Warlock/Healer and go against a Warlock who uses additonal Pen by default and they just seem to have a much easier time beating you? I know a couple of my guildies use ~100 pen by default in every match and have a much easier time against other Locks. Should pick up that pen imo. As stated previously it's not that hard to put it in S1/S2 gear now. I mean cmon how many of you have been sitting on 5k points for a while?

[Rycho]

Are you really going to sit here and say people use SR in 3's and 5's as much as they do in 2's? Are you going to say that there are as many 3's and 5's teams that rely only on shadow damage as there is the same in 2's teams?

Don't question my arguement, since it isn't an arguement. The fact is 2's is unbalanced. Are 3's and 5's balanced in terms of people wearing SR as opposed to 2's? No, of course not. but if you don't build your team entirely around shadow damage than of course you won't see teams throwing on SR to fight back. This is just common sense. You're trying to say that everyone should have a counter to something strong in 2's...which I said was unbalanced? Try playing 5's if you want the most balanced arena play; otherwise just QQ.


people use sr in 3s and 5s all the time

[Rycho]

While I see your reasoning I have to disagree with the term "useless". My teammates and I lose just as many in SR just because our damage is gimped. The fact that my partner and I can run full BT SR gear in 2v2 and still lose to Lock/Healer shows how OP you are, and it does in fact begin to balance things. Sad that it takes 350 SR to balance things. I can say for the most part that is due to the opponent not recognizing we have SR right away. When they do for locks at least they can usually throw in enough fire damage to negate the SR and still win. Of course I can see where it's more powerful for Warrior or Rogue but it's not that powerful for me as a mage as we rely on burst since our mana efficiency sucks.

To flip the script for a second do any of you warlocks ever face Warlock/Healer and go against a Warlock who uses additonal Pen by default and they just seem to have a much easier time beating you? I know a couple of my guildies use ~100 pen by default in every match and have a much easier time against other Locks. Should pick up that pen imo. As stated previously it's not that hard to put it in S1/S2 gear now. I mean cmon how many of you have been sitting on 5k points for a while?

rofl

if you lose to warlock teams while you wear full sr, i can see why you need gear-swapping and /ignore to remain in the game - honestly though, your problem isn't the game, its you.

[Hoove]

rofl

if you lose to warlock teams while you wear full sr, i can see why you need gear-swapping and /ignore to remain in the game - honestly though, your problem isn't the game, its you.

We can duel on PTR if you like. I've dueled some of the best Locks out there and even in full SR and Full CDs as Frost with no mistakes it's a close fight.

[Tyveris]

rofl

if you lose to warlock teams while you wear full sr, i can see why you need gear-swapping and /ignore to remain in the game - honestly though, your problem isn't the game, its you.
No, SL/SL lock vs mage is so imbalanced that even with full SR gear it is an extremely tough fight.

It is just like Warrior vs Frost Mage. I can almost beat a merc glad geared warrior while naked except that I run out of mana =/

[Snuffy]

Part of the QQ is that Warlocks are overpowered as hell and anyone with half a brain can take one to high ratings by just hitting their stupid dot keys and using Drain Life/Mana. Sck has a 2K+ rated team on his green geared Warlock that hit 70 nearly 2 weeks ago, just because he has half a clue about how to play a Warlock. They are so stupidly overpowered that any random ass idiot can hit his dots and stand there. Do you really think a Warrior in green gear can have a 2K+ rated team that he played 100% of the games on? Good god no. Never in a million years could it happen on BG9.

Long story short: Go to hell. I have no sympathy or remorse or pity for any Warlock complaining about SR. Maybe if you played a class that was more in line with the others in terms of balance then I might care about your whining. For now though, I'm going to happily enjoy wearing my SR and having all of you drooling retards /spit on me while I take your points away from you that you didn't deserve to begin with. SR is my resilience, deal with it (just like I did with your unfathomably overpowered class) and cry a whole lot more.

i don't use SR btw

[Rycho]

obviously sl/sl lock vs mage is imba, that has nothing to do with the fact that resist gear has no place in arenas.

certain classes/comps counter other classes/comps, resist gear bypasses this.

when we play 5s with one lock and one shadow priest and the other team puts on sr, the game is over before it starts.

[Tyveris]

obviously sl/sl lock vs mage is imba, that has nothing to do with the fact that resist gear has no place in arenas.

certain classes/comps counter other classes/comps, resist gear bypasses this.

when we play 5s with one lock and one shadow priest and the other team puts on sr, the game is over before it starts.
That wasn't what I was saying. I was agreeing it has no place in the arena because it affects 2v2 and 3v3 even with non double shadow teams.

I pointed out the imbalanced makeup thing as a response to your response to Hoove about mages losing to locks even with SR gear.

I think mages work best when complementing a lock, but that disappears when SR gear is factored in. I would rather they just balance without such a terrible game mechanic involved. Like I said before, it is only a matter of time until mages become the class to stack resists against.

[Tribby]

Like I said before, it is only a matter of time until mages become the class to stack resists against.

Ironic but I was talking to my ice-mage friend and we decided the only reason people did not cry about mages is because they are so heavily at a disadvantage against warlocks of all specc.

[Notdeadyet]

shouldn't allow any resist gear to be equipped in arena.

[Ridzik]

pve guys reach gladiator by fully negating the damage/utility of 1 and a half classes - yeah clearly must be intended. everybody who justifies this has never grouped with a lock/spriest in 2s or 3s.

and there is no way to counter this.

blizzards solution for this is putting spell penetration on everything next season. as a result sl/sl will provide hardly any resistance against magic damage any more. well done.

[buena]

Ironic but I was talking to my ice-mage friend and we decided the only reason people did not cry about mages is because they are so heavily at a disadvantage against warlocks of all specc.

Mage class mechanics are to both CC and do their best damage by standing still with nothing hitting them, and to run out of mana in the process. This is always going to put them at a disadvantage in an arena environment where positioning, line of sight, and mana conservation are perhaps the three most important strategic factors.

Mages will gain some power in s3 when their CC joins warlocks in getting an anti-pushback bonus, but I think it would take a lot of buffs before any direct damage nuker is going to be considered cryingly OP in the current arena environment. Shamans, boomkins and destro locks included as well.

[efa]

gear that can effectively reduce a school of damage by an amount close to none is just wrong

[Frenetic]

Easy fix to this issue is to set a pvp softcap for resistance...say at around 100-150. Oh and this cap will apply to felhunters too so I can nova them for once!

[Sylvar]

easy to fix is to stop giving 2v2 gladiator. it's unbalanced and too easy to exploit. shadowresistance is far from usefull in 3v3 ( unless you're stupid enough to run only shadowdmg there)

Oh, and it's not any different then other casters fighting your felpuppy ( or warlocks with 70 natureres from pet and +30 nature res enchants to ignore my earthshocks,lol to that -.-)

[Snuffy]

easy to fix is to stop giving 2v2 gladiator. it's unbalanced and too easy to exploit. shadowresistance is far from usefull in 3v3 ( unless you're stupid enough to run only shadowdmg there)

Oh, and it's not any different then other casters fighting your felpuppy ( or warlocks with 70 natureres from pet and +30 nature res enchants to ignore my earthshocks,lol to that -.-)

well i agree with 2v2 shouldn't give gladiator, but honestly, look at your 5's. T_T

[Sylvar]

well i agree with 2v2 shouldn't give gladiator, but honestly, look at your 5's. T_T

Yes,I don't get gladiator with this rating, not even Duelist ( our priest leaving and our paladin never being online also helps us *cough*). But what's your point? I know I don't deserve gladiator title for my 5s =S

[Wormed]

I'm sure if there were more good Frost Mage/Frost Mage 2v2s people would stack frost resist and mage tears would be crying.

[Sylvar]

I'm pretty sure if damageclasses were presented in the arena people would stack starmina and resiliance.

oh,wait...

[Tekzor]

I HATE shadow res. It is completely unbalanced and unfair. I run 2's and 3's primarily with a SL/SL lock and we have lost many games due to just SR.

That being said, I wear ~100+ shad res while doing 2's all the time [over 175 SR with aura]. I don't use the ignore or whisper 'features' though. Why on earth would I be hypocritical and lame and what not and do that? The answer is that warlocks are extremely unbalanced and are the only thing I need to fear in arena. You have a caster with the ability to lock down any caster for almost the entire game, one that can solo kite melee with CoEx [BoF and escape artist don't hurt either], has a pet that can auto-purge and silence even instant casts, and the biggest problem--they aren't mana-dependent like other casters [when is the last time you saw a lock drink in arena?]. I'm not stacking shad res to negate your damage, I'm wearing it to avoid your super-OP cc's and pet [fear, dcoil, devour, spell lock, and CoT].

Someone mentioned that when mages get trainable IB that people will stack FR. You're really missing the point of why people are wearing resists at all. A good lock can stop me from doing anything useful in arena; they essentialy negate most of my abilities while doing equivalent damage to any other class and often out-healing me with SL and draining all my mana in the process. A mage while having very good cc, just cannot do that to me, which is why I won't need fire res. Shad res is to avoid fear, dcoil, CoT, spell lock , and devour magic--negating damage and shadow priests is just a pleasant and overpowered side effect.

[Kamikazeoi]

Shadow Resist is very fucking annoying.

Last night there 8 minute queues and normally we try to queue around guildies but this druid/warrior team were 5 minutes in so we decided to queue. Unfortuntely we ended up getting them a few minutes later.

Now normally I wouldn't care 'cause we'd own them (sl sl lock + druid vs warrior + druid)....except they decided to wear full shadow resist. OK that sucks ass, all my abilities fucked, easy win for them, right?

34 minutes later they finally kill my druid while their druid is at 1500 health and 100 mana. Sucks for us but even with them wearing shadow resist we still got extremely close to winning....meh...

[Bingham]

i only have 290 ShR in pvp gear with 12k hp and 330 res lolololol

[Sylvar]

I HATE shadow res. It is completely unbalanced and unfair. I run 2's and 3's primarily with a SL/SL lock and we have lost many games due to just SR.

That being said, I wear ~100+ shad res while doing 2's all the time [over 175 SR with aura]. I don't use the ignore or whisper 'features' though. Why on earth would I be hypocritical and lame and what not and do that? The answer is that warlocks are extremely unbalanced and are the only thing I need to fear in arena. You have a caster with the ability to lock down any caster for almost the entire game, one that can solo kite melee with CoEx [BoF and escape artist don't hurt either], has a pet that can auto-purge and silence even instant casts, and the biggest problem--they aren't mana-dependent like other casters [when is the last time you saw a lock drink in arena?]. I'm not stacking shad res to negate your damage, I'm wearing it to avoid your super-OP cc's and pet [fear, dcoil, devour, spell lock, and CoT].

Someone mentioned that when mages get trainable IB that people will stack FR. You're really missing the point of why people are wearing resists at all. A good lock can stop me from doing anything useful in arena; they essentialy negate most of my abilities while doing equivalent damage to any other class and often out-healing me with SL and draining all my mana in the process. A mage while having very good cc, just cannot do that to me, which is why I won't need fire res. Shad res is to avoid fear, dcoil, CoT, spell lock , and devour magic--negating damage and shadow priests is just a pleasant and overpowered side effect.

This.

[Barr]

I'm sure if there were more good Frost Mage/Frost Mage 2v2s people would stack frost resist and mage tears would be crying.

I dont find the prob with SR stacking being in the damage reduction, you have other trees that do damage (holy for priest fire for locks). I know theyre not efficient but you wont see 50% resist rate on all spells. The issue is within the fact the you lose your fear and silence. Mages could still poly and CS. The only thing they lose CC wise is frost nova which I know is huge but they still have other forms of CC.

WTB a set of purchasable armor with 20k AC and 50% dodge, then well see the whos crying about gear swapping...

[Tekzor]

WTB a set of purchasable armor with 20k AC and 50% dodge, then well see the whos crying about gear swapping...

You just completely missed YOUR whole point. What if you could have an armor set that would mitigate all warrior stuns, interrupts, and intim shout. Then you would be closer to the point of wearing shad res gear. Mitigating the damage is a side-effect. [With your disc talents and your meta gem, you're already 20% there too.]

[Barr]

You just completely missed YOUR whole point. What if you could have an armor set that would mitigate all warrior stuns, interrupts, and intim shout. Then you would be closer to the point of wearing shad res gear. Mitigating the damage is a side-effect. [With your disc talents and your meta gem, you're already 20% there too.]

No. 50% dodge would rage starve a warrior to the point that he would be auto attacking into a PW:S. 50% dodge would also make landing a hamstring next to impossible especially since he has no rage. I'll deal with the intercept because as you said I have 20% chance to resist it ;)

[Hoove]

even with them wearing shadow resist we still got extremely close to winning....meh...

once again proves the OPness of locks

[efa]

you have other trees that do damage (holy for priest fire for locks)

I dont mind if our curse and CC is not also shadow base :(

[ego]

There was a blue post admitting that warlocks are overpowered in lower brackets (esp 2v2) last week. Considering this, shadow resist is fair game. None of my teams are even very active, but whenever we get our 10 games in 2's or 3's, 7-9 of them are against a warlock.

The whisper bug is pretty cheap, so we generally zone in with shadow resist gear already on, knowing that the chances are good we'll encounter a shadow team. I really don't see how warlocks feel justified in getting gladiator in 2v2 and 3v3 just because their class is blatantly imbalanced in these brackets; as admitted by blizzard.

[Xyo]

There was a blue post admitting that warlocks are overpowered in lower brackets (esp 2v2) last week. Considering this, shadow resist is fair game. None of my teams are even very active, but whenever we get our 10 games in 2's or 3's, 7-9 of them are against a warlock.

The whisper bug is pretty cheap, so we generally zone in with shadow resist gear already on, knowing that the chances are good we'll encounter a shadow team. I really don't see how warlocks feel justified in getting gladiator in 2v2 and 3v3 just because their class is blatantly imbalanced in these brackets; as admitted by blizzard.

I don't have any shadow resist gear, because I'm too cheap. But the fact is, warlock's mechanics and abilities are completely overpowered for arena. So is SR vs lock/sp. Deal.

[Rycho]

There was a blue post admitting that warlocks are overpowered in lower brackets (esp 2v2) last week. Considering this, shadow resist is fair game. None of my teams are even very active, but whenever we get our 10 games in 2's or 3's, 7-9 of them are against a warlock.

The whisper bug is pretty cheap, so we generally zone in with shadow resist gear already on, knowing that the chances are good we'll encounter a shadow team. I really don't see how warlocks feel justified in getting gladiator in 2v2 and 3v3 just because their class is blatantly imbalanced in these brackets; as admitted by blizzard.

it doesnt help you much apparently

if i played a warrior and wore sr and wasnt like 2700 i would probably uninstall

[ego]

sorry I dont have people from aurora on my teams... or play more than 10 every other week.

[Tyveris]

I don't know if it is even possible to moderate a topic like this heh. Please keep it civil or take it to the rant room.

[buena]

Sure it's cheesy and would be better off being removed, but some of the rage here is way out of proportion. It's not like it's uncounterable. Make a penetration set and use the same ignore macro exploits they do. There, you've out-hardcored them.

Your rage isn't really over an uncounterable abuse, it's over the research and expense of making a decent penetration set. Which TBH isn't all that hard to do, so I don't have a whole lot of sympathy. Search "spell penetration" for my post in a similar topic 2 months(!) ago laying out a very viable 300+ penetration set with minimal stat loss.

edit: found it for you http://www.arenajunkies.com/showthread.php?t=759&highlight=spell+penetration&page=6

[Taffie]

I agree with Beuna. They put together the time to get the SR, so you should put together the time to get the spell pen. (Not saying I use SR, but I did spend over 200g to make a BT SR set.)

I think the reason this convo is such a flame war is because it's two completely different sides. I understand that Warlock and SPriest teams are incredibly upset by SR useage, but I also understand that to some teams using SR is just a way for them to up their rating, give them a chance, and
"balance the game".

[buena]

I did spend over 200g to make a BT SR set

Either that should be 2000g or the Heart of Darkness sellers on detheroc are really gouging O_o

[Wormed]

The only time SR really pisses me off is against Warrior/Pally or Drood teams, because i can't just swap gear to gain enough armor to reduce physical damage taken by 75%

[Rycho]

I agree with Beuna. They put together the time to get the SR, so you should put together the time to get the spell pen. (Not saying I use SR, but I did spend over 200g to make a BT SR set.)

this is a stupid argument. it is much more difficult to switch gear in response to someone else switching gear than it is to switch gear in response to what class your opponents play. when i join a 3v3 arena, i have no option but to use shadow spells, my opponents know what i'm going to do. when the scrub pve paladin on the other team zones in, i often have no idea what gear he is wearing, and i can't tell until the match starts and i can't change gear.

also, spell penetration is much harder to come by than shadow resist. there isn't a neck from a QUEST which is 49 stamina 40 spell penetration, there aren't crafted items with huge amount of spell penetration. the best i can do is get another set of season 2 armor with stormy stars of elunes in them (which i have done) and even with a cloak enchant and the pvp ring i'm not anywhere near the amount of shadow resist i could get just switching a few pieces of gear.

I think the reason this convo is such a flame war is because it's two completely different sides. I understand that Warlock and SPriest teams are incredibly upset by SR useage, but I also understand that to some teams using SR is just a way for them to up their rating, give them a chance, and
"balance the game".

i understand that some people need this to up their rating, thats why it doesn't suprise me that they are upset when people talk about removing it - some players are just abd and need sr for the 200 extra rating or so it provides. it is not needed to be successful or to balance anything though - if you're good, you can get a high rating with any class, in any bracket, without point-feeding, without wearing shadow resist. i've been first in my battlegroup with a mage, priest, and druid, i've also seen shaman/warrior, hunter/priest, rogue/druid, druid/warrior, warrior/paladin, and others be in first place, without using shadow resist. people who say its neccessary to succeed are kidding themselves - the only thing its useful for is stealing points from comps that would counter yours, points that you don't need if you're winning the matches you should.

is the game perfectly balanced, especially in 2v2? no, of course not, no one would argue that. however, there are certain things we as players can do to improve the ladder competition. if i wanted, i could zone in every game, use the arena ignore addon to find out who i was playing, switch to resist gear, then run out into nagrand arena and climb the pole so melee couldnt hit me, and dot them from there. then, i could zone out after getting my team to 2500, hold the team on my alt, level a new team to 2500 and feed myself to 2600. i don't do this, however, because this isn't a tournament for money and the only point of playing is to compete and practice against other good teams - something that shadow resist prevents. playing against an opponent with 350 sr is not competition, it isnt fun for either side, and frankly its just one more thing that makes arena a joke.

[Rycho]

sorry I dont have people from aurora on my teams

says the ms warrior with torch of the damned

yes the guild tag of my teammates wins us matches

[Rycho]

Your rage isn't really over an uncounterable abuse, it's over the research and expense of making a decent penetration set. Which TBH isn't all that hard to do, so I don't have a whole lot of sympathy. Search "spell penetration" for my post in a similar topic 2 months(!) ago laying out a very viable 300+ penetration set with minimal stat loss.

edit: found it for you http://www.arenajunkies.com/showthread.php?t=759&highlight=spell+penetration&page=6


that is not "minimal stat loss", rofl, when my opponents are wearing ilevel 130 crafted black temple sr gear and i have ilevel 45 blue trinkets on, tell me who you think has an advantage.

[razed]

team a uses macro to find they are facing a double shadow team and equip 450 shadow resistance.

team b uses a macro that includes likely teams that would use sr, and find they facing using a team that is on that list in their arena. they equip their penetration sets but severely gimp themselves.

team b wins because they outplay their opponents so bad and the only reason team a is at that rating is because of sr.

they queue up again but team a does not use sr, instead they play in regular gear. they proceed to roll their opposing counter because they gimped themselves to play against sr.

SOME PRETTY GOOD STUFF I THINK THATS HOW ARENA SHOULD BE PLAYED. ALL DECEPTIVE AND STUFF.

[Rades]

stop queueing and play again later

[Sylvar]

The teams that say they want a 50% dodge or high armour set;
warlocks DO get increased armour ( doubled it even) and resiliance on their sets. We do not get shadowresistance on our sets. We have to farm for it outside pvp to get it. So you're free to farm Badge of Tenacity or whatever the hell you want that gives you more armour and dodge. Feel free to stack up that agility!
Yes,it gimps your stats for dps or hp, but we gimp those stats too when we stack shadowresistance.

[Rycho]

The teams that say they want a 50% dodge or high armour set;
warlocks DO get increased armour ( doubled it even) and resiliance on their sets. We do not get shadowresistance on our sets. We have to farm for it outside pvp to get it. So you're free to farm Badge of Tenacity or whatever the hell you want that gives you more armour and dodge. Feel free to stack up that agility!
Yes,it gimps your stats for dps or hp, but we gimp those stats too when we stack shadowresistance.

this is a post worthy of general forums

[gatoja]

SR stacking is a very cheap tactic in 2v2. Especially in conjunction with a /ignore macro.

The problem is many people justify it b/c of warlock strengths in the 2v2 bracket.

In an ideal world, warlocks would have their solo power reduced (their group power is just fine) and make it where you cannot ignore or whisper people while in arena as well as when you /who someone it shows them in the city they queued rather than the arena.

But the truth of the matter is, warlocks(specifically soul link) are choking the entire 2v2 bracket. Their power keeps a number of classes/specs from being viable in any frequency in arena...more so than warriors (despite the fact that warriors are dominating 2v2, the cock block that is drain tank/healer keeps a whole plethora of teams and combinations in the gutter)

[Faceroller]

The teams that say they want a 50% dodge or high armour set;
warlocks DO get increased armour ( doubled it even) and resiliance on their sets. We do not get shadowresistance on our sets. We have to farm for it outside pvp to get it. So you're free to farm Badge of Tenacity or whatever the hell you want that gives you more armour and dodge. Feel free to stack up that agility!
Yes,it gimps your stats for dps or hp, but we gimp those stats too when we stack shadowresistance.

I actually came here to see posts better than the ones on the WoW pvp forums. This person has dashed all of those hopes.

Fact is, no Warlock, or anyone for that matter, can stack armor to 90% mitigation and stack dodge to 90% passive. Not even close.

[gatoja]

I actually came here to see posts better than the ones on the WoW pvp forums. This person has dashed all of those hopes.

Fact is, no Warlock, or anyone for that matter, can stack armor to 90% mitigation and stack dodge to 90% passive. Not even close.


but what warlocks do stack better than any other class are capped resilience and a crap load of hit points.

not that it really helps vs teams that stack SR.... but there are other forms of survivability that warlocks excel at besides pure mitigation through armor or dodge.

edit-also before you rail on a poster who you don't agree with, at least consider his points. Warlocks do in fact get extra mitigation towards physical attacks (through increased armor) via pvp where as melee users do not gain such benefits.

His point was that warlock survivability is built into the armor. Actually warlocks (and by warlocks I really mean drain tank more so than affliction and destro) have the most synergy with PvP armor (high stam, resilience and added armor).

[Rycho]

but what warlocks do stack better than any other class are capped resilience and a crap load of hit points.

not that it really helps vs teams that stack SR.... but there are other forms of survivability that warlocks excel at besides pure mitigation through armor or dodge.

you win the award for most irrelevant point made

[Faceroller]

but what warlocks do stack better than any other class are capped resilience and a crap load of hit points.

not that it really helps vs teams that stack SR.... but there are other forms of survivability that warlocks excel at besides pure mitigation through armor or dodge.

...I don't quite see the point of what you just said.

[gatoja]

you win the award for most irrelevant point made

a rebuttal worthy of any intraweb

[gatoja]

my point as well as the edit was in regards to the idea that warlocks should have a way to mitigate massive amounts of melee damage.

A more concise point is the following-
yes, its extremely lame how people use /ignore macros to see who they are playing and then stack SR.

But dont act like a full merc SL/SL warlock is a paraplegic running around in dishrags either.

[Rycho]

the post is about sr gear

and you say YEAH BUT LOCKS R HAVE A LOT OF HPZ LOL

[gatoja]

did you read my prior posts in this thread?

what more do you want me to say in the regards? That warlocks should be buffed to magnanimous proportions and then retake their crown the dominant class of 2v2?


The fact is, you are not going to get your melee mitigation gear. What is going to happen is that eventually blizzard will disable /ignore or /whisper in arenas and when you queue into an arena, it shows the zone you queued from rather than the arena.

[Rycho]

my point as well as the edit was in regards to the idea that warlocks should have a way to mitigate massive amounts of melee damage.

A more concise point is the following-
yes, its extremely lame how people use /ignore macros to see who they are playing and then stack SR.

But dont act like a full merc SL/SL warlock is a paraplegic running around in dishrags either.

having a couple hundred extra armor on their pvp gear (which mages, rogues, and priests have too) isn't equivalent to the amount of damage reduction sr gives as i'm sure you know.

every class has decent survivability in full merciless, thats the whole point of the gear.

[Rycho]

did you read my prior posts in this thread?

what more do you want me to say in the regards? That warlocks should be buffed to magnanimous proportions and then retake their crown the dominant class of 2v2?


The fact is, you are not going to get your melee mitigation gear. What is going to happen is that eventually blizzard will disable /ignore or /whisper in arenas and when you queue into an arena, it shows the zone you queued from rather than the arena.

i'm not asking for melee mitigation gear, in my opinion spell resists should just have no effect on pvp - melee mitigation would just make the problem of /ignore worse (although at least more fair).

[gatoja]

having a couple hundred extra armor on their pvp gear (which mages, rogues, and priests have too) isn't equivalent to the amount of damage reduction sr gives as i'm sure you know.

every class has decent survivability in full merciless, thats the whole point of the gear.

I know that, warlocks just tend to have better synergy with the PvP gear. I am not trying to say that warlocks are the only class that should use merciless and everyone else should stick to BT/Hyjal.

And yes, I am quite well aware of it, especially since armor penetration is going to mitigate that advantage entirely especially in conjunction with an executioner proc.

[gatoja]

i'm not asking for melee mitigation gear, in my opinion spell resists should just have no effect on pvp - melee mitigation would just make the problem of /ignore worse (although at least more fair).


SR gear is not the only thing that applies resists. Auras, totems, gift, etc all apply a minor amount of resistance.

The real problem that most people who advocate the use of full SR gear do not realize is that spell damage already has mitigating factors built into it. These include cast times, interrupts, dispells, etc, etc, etc. Melee's mitigation being needing to be in range, armor, as well as dodge/parry.


The real problem is not so much that your damage is nuked is that their survivability surpasses your own in 2's. Drain tank locks do not win based on their WTFPWN damage, but their extreme survivability. When this survivability is surpassed through a common exploit in the higher regions of the 2v2 bracket, then you have problems.

[Faceroller]

SR gear is not the only thing that applies resists. Auras, totems, gift, etc all apply a minor amount of resistance.

The real problem that most people who advocate the use of full SR gear do not realize is that spell damage already has mitigating factors built into it. These include cast times, interrupts, dispells, etc, etc, etc. Melee's mitigation being needing to be in range, armor, as well as dodge/parry.


The real problem is not so much that your damage is nuked is that their survivability surpasses your own in 2's. Drain tank locks do not win based on their WTFPWN damage, but their extreme survivability. When this survivability is surpassed through a common exploit in the higher regions of the 2v2 bracket, then you have problems.

The real problem isn't that their survivability surpasses our own from SR use; it's that SR use turns it into a 2v1 or a 3v2 or a 3v1 or a 2v0 even. Yes, they have gimped their stats a little. But what happens when 3 players of moderate skill and gear face equally skilled 2 players with little better gear? The 2 players get their shit stomped in, no question.

Bottom line: SR is cheating; it must be fixed.

[Rycho]

people wear sr to the same result in 3v3 and 5v5

theres no reason not to keep totems, auras, and buffs that give magic resists to pve only, just balance spell damage around not being resisted (like it is for pve) and you've removed one more rng factor from the game.

[Faceroller]

people wear sr to the same result in 3v3 and 5v5

theres no reason not to keep totems, auras, and buffs that give magic resists to pve only, just balance spell damage around not being resisted (like it is for pve) and you've removed one more rng factor from the game.

Yup, love people who think that SR is only effective if all of the team's damage is shadow based.

[Lolflay]

Shadow resistance gear is long out of hand. If I were Blizzard I would just disallow any gear swapping the moment you enter arena and not when match starts.

[Tyveris]

The real problem isn't that their survivability surpasses our own from SR use; it's that SR use turns it into a 2v1 or a 3v2 or a 3v1 or a 2v0 even. Yes, they have gimped their stats a little. But what happens when 3 players of moderate skill and gear face equally skilled 2 players with little better gear? The 2 players get their shit stomped in, no question.

Bottom line: SR is cheating; it must be fixed.
Exactly. If you play with a warlock or spriest on any of your teams you should know this is an issue. If an epic Nature resistance set came out so you could be immune to druid roots, cyclones, and occasional moonfires, you would be just as upset.

Resistance as a whole is a problem, just because it affects Warlocks right not does not mean it shouldn't be addressed.

[buena]

that is not "minimal stat loss", rofl, when my opponents are wearing ilevel 130 crafted black temple sr gear and i have ilevel 45 blue trinkets on, tell me who you think has an advantage.

So don't wear it then? Trinket slot is weak for stats unless you're bursting so why not get an extra 20 penetration? But you could still make a 200+ penetration set out of nothing but L70 epics, if being inspected with low level or blue gear on makes your penis shrink. The set I linked is only one of literally hundreds of options - anything that has sockets can be part of a penetration set.

But you wouldn't know that since you haven't even looked into it. You'd rather just have a huge pity party for yourself over how uncounterable SR sets are, when you aren't trying to use the clear counter that is already in the game.

As for "its totally lame to play a guessing game over whether they have SR on":

1. This scenario is unlikely as it requires you to play the same team multiple times in a row and have them guess that you are wearing a penetration set.

2. If it comes to this just wear a middling amount of penetration and use CoS if they do wear SR. The stat loss will be little enough that skill will determine the outcome whether or not they wear SR.

3. Is it any lamer than refusing to make a penetration set at all and therefore refusing to give yourself a chance?


My amount of sympathy has gone from some to zero as I see gladiator-range players wallowing in self-pity without even having tried to use the obvious counter to their problem. The fact that it is an imperfect counter doesn't entitle you to skip it, give up, and expect people here to kiss the boo-boo the mean man gave you. Man up and do what you can to fight back, THEN you'll have my sympathy. Trying to cast yourself as a victim when you have gladiator range ratings is absurd and a bit shameful.

[razed]

i have never had sympathy for sr users

and i guess youve never played much at high ratings considering all you do that high is play series vs. teams

[Tekzor]

Exactly. If you play with a warlock or spriest on any of your teams you should know this is an issue. If an epic Nature resistance set came out so you could be immune to druid roots, cyclones, and occasional moonfires, you would be just as upset.

Resistance as a whole is a problem, just because it affects Warlocks right not does not mean it shouldn't be addressed.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31399
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31364
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31368
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31367

etc...

Considering the landscape of 2v2, I could see myself wearing shad res for 2v2 and having my warrior wear nature res in every match. It would be truly lame indeed.

I use SR bracers (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32403), neck (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32757), and cloak (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32420) for every match. I lose quite a bit of stats, but I wear it for eveyr single match I play. I don't use the ingore 'feature', I think that is truly an exploit. To those people that mention you should not be able to swap gears once you take the queue, that's not a terrible idea--but I have my shad res gear on before I take the queue (sorry!).

[Rycho]

So don't wear it then? Trinket slot is weak for stats unless you're bursting so why not get an extra 20 penetration? But you could still make a 200+ penetration set out of nothing but L70 epics, if being inspected with low level or blue gear on makes your penis shrink. The set I linked is only one of literally hundreds of options - anything that has sockets can be part of a penetration set.

But you wouldn't know that since you haven't even looked into it. You'd rather just have a huge pity party for yourself over how uncounterable SR sets are, when you aren't trying to use the clear counter that is already in the game.

As for "its totally lame to play a guessing game over whether they have SR on":

1. This scenario is unlikely as it requires you to play the same team multiple times in a row and have them guess that you are wearing a penetration set.

2. If it comes to this just wear a middling amount of penetration and use CoS if they do wear SR. The stat loss will be little enough that skill will determine the outcome whether or not they wear SR.

3. Is it any lamer than refusing to make a penetration set at all and therefore refusing to give yourself a chance?


My amount of sympathy has gone from some to zero as I see gladiator-range players wallowing in self-pity without even having tried to use the obvious counter to their problem. The fact that it is an imperfect counter doesn't entitle you to skip it, give up, and expect people here to kiss the boo-boo the mean man gave you. Man up and do what you can to fight back, THEN you'll have my sympathy. Trying to cast yourself as a victim when you have gladiator range ratings is absurd and a bit shameful.

wrong, I have a penetration set, I have an entire merciless gladiator set with all 10 spell penetration gems in it and the veterans neck/bracers with 10 spell penetration in them, an unyielding girdle socketed the same way, the wsg level 40 trinket, and some other stuff.

you clearly have no clue what you're talking about, i was complaining that when i'm using level 40 trinkets and my opponents have pve gear from black temple, that they are obviously going to have the advantage. i lose more stats than they do, by a long shot, in addition to the problem that i can't switch gear in response to them switching gear after the match has already started.

basically, you're an idiot - a spell penetration set is not a solution to sr gear, thats probably the dumbest thing anyone has said in this thread so far. you probably got your (bad) ratings using sr gear, because i don't think anyone could possibly truly think that wearing level 40 trinkets in top level arena could really counter scrubs that walk around with 150 shadow resist on all the time.

[Rycho]

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31399
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31364
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31368
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31367

etc...

Considering the landscape of 2v2, I could see myself wearing shad res for 2v2 and having my warrior wear nature res in every match. It would be truly lame indeed.

I use SR bracers (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32403), neck (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32757), and cloak (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32420) for every match. I lose quite a bit of stats, but I wear it for eveyr single match I play. I don't use the ingore 'feature', I think that is truly an exploit. To those people that mention you should not be able to swap gears once you take the queue, that's not a terrible idea--but I have my shad res gear on before I take the queue (sorry!).

this is exactly the problem.

i play a warlock (among other classes), i generally have an advantage over casters but melee can shut me down by making me tank them all game wearing cloth. if i had the option to switch a few pieces of gear to give me 50% dodge and 50% damage reduction from armor, obviously it would be a gigantic advantage. losing the spell damage from 3 pieces of gear (while gaining hp) would be an insane tradeoff for the ability to basically not be vulnerable at all to cc or focus fire from melee - i'm going to still have the advantage over casters, but my weaknesses are erased.

this is what it is like for scrubs who wear sr - i counter paladin healers pretty well, with curse of tongues and spell lock and fear, probably more than any other healer. when they can completely ignore me because they got a few pieces of gear crafted from black temple, the balance between classes is completely shifted.

i realize the game isn't perfectly balanced, or really anywhere near it - however, imagine if every player had an sr set - warlocks and shadow priests would be completely neutralized, there would literally be none on any top teams. we are getting closer and closer to that, with more guilds doing bt and hearts getting cheaper, and something needs to be done about it - anyone who thinks that resist gear of any kind belongs in arena is an idiot.

[buena]

basically, you're an idiot - a spell penetration set is not a solution to sr gear, thats probably the dumbest thing anyone has said in this thread so far. you probably got your (bad) ratings using sr gear, because i don't think anyone could possibly truly think that wearing level 40 trinkets in top level arena could really counter scrubs that walk around with 150 shadow resist on all the time.

Using the stat with the sole purpose of countering resistance to counter resistance is "the dumbest thing anyone has said?"

You don't have to use a level 40 trinket to get 150 penetration. Which you would know if you actually made a penetration set. You can easily get over 150 penetration with 1 or 2 items different from full PvP gear, assuming you gem for it. My warlock gets 150 penetration on his base set that he uses all the time, assuming I throw CoS against SR. And if the team that wears it in their normal set is "scrubs" then you shouldn't have a problem with them anyway, even if they resist 10 or 20% of your spells.

Furthermore, 150 SR isn't "resisting half my spells." It's 30%. It would take well over 200 SR to reach 50% resistance, even if you had zero penetration whatsoever.

Finally, the itemvalue of SR items is deceptive as a way to measure stat loss from using them. This is because resists take up far more itemvalue than penetration OR gem slots which you could use on penetration. The difference is even less noticable if you shell out for BT 13-penetration gems.

Your ignorance on this subject is astonishing given your emotional involvement in it. If you care that intensely then you should care enough to do 15 minutes of research.

[Rycho]

Using the stat with the sole purpose of countering resistance to counter resistance is "the dumbest thing anyone has said?"

You don't have to use a level 40 trinket to get 150 penetration. Which you would know if you actually made a penetration set. You can easily get over 150 penetration with 1 or 2 items different from full PvP gear, assuming you gem for it. My warlock gets 150 penetration on his base set that he uses all the time, assuming I throw CoS against SR. And if the team that wears it in their normal set is "scrubs" then you shouldn't have a problem with them anyway, even if they resist 10 or 20% of your spells.

Furthermore, 150 SR isn't "resisting half my spells." It's 30%. It would take well over 200 SR to reach 50% resistance, even if you had zero penetration whatsoever.

Finally, the itemvalue of SR items is deceptive as a way to measure stat loss from using them. This is because resists take up far more itemvalue than penetration OR gem slots which you could use on penetration. The difference is even less noticable if you shell out for BT 13-penetration gems.

Your ignorance on this subject is astonishing given your emotional involvement in it. If you care that intensely then you should care enough to do 15 minutes of research.


did you even read my post? i have a penetration set. i have every merciless and veteran item with a gem slot gemmed with 10 spell penetration.

curse of shadows isn't always a viable option, since the entire point of wearing penetration sometimes is to make sure i can reliably cast curse of tongues. also, paladins with sr aura and 3 pieces of gear switched have over 200 sr, as does everyone on their team - again, do you even pay attention?

does penetration help? yes, it makes things a little better. does it solve the problem of sr? no, not even close, i have basically the best possible penetration gear in the game and i still lose matches to shadow resist often. sr is a joke and needs to be taken out of arenas.

i also find it funny that you call me ignorant while posting about how i dont have a penetration set in the post where you QUOTE me saying that i have one, nice job.

[buena]

i also find it funny that you call me ignorant while posting about how i dont have a penetration set in the post where you QUOTE me saying that i have one, nice job.

Well you said that you had made one. But then you also said that you had to wear the Rune of Perfection in order to get 150 penetration. Which convinced me that you hadn't actually made one, because if you had then you would know this isn't true.

But yes, now we are getting to a more reasonable argument. Paladins using SR auras and the sometime necesitiy of tongues precluding shadows are valid points. In contrast to "you are the biggest noob ever, that is the stupidest thing I ever read, you cheated to get your ratings which suck anyway, now let me shamelessly exaggerate my problems so I can pity myself." Which is not a valid point.

[Rycho]

Well you said that you had made one. But then you also said that you had to wear the Rune of Perfection in order to get 150 penetration. Which convinced me that you hadn't actually made one, because if you had then you would know this isn't true.

no shit, you don't have to wear that specific item to get exactly 150 spell penetration, i think you just passed yourself in the "stupidest post" race.

[Tyveris]

no shit, you don't have to wear that specific item to get exactly 150 spell penetration, i think you just passed yourself in the "stupidest post" race.
I think he is saying that if you use an item like that to craft your spell penetration set you are putting together a rather cheap set. I know my first PvP set had at least 12 sockets. Now add all +10 penetration gems, +20 for cloak, and +10 from the ring and you are sitting at 150.

Epics from BT would need to be countered with epic gems from BT.

[Rycho]

I think he is saying that if you use an item like that to craft your spell penetration set you are putting together a rather cheap set. I know my first PvP set had at least 12 sockets. Now add all +10 penetration gems, +20 for cloak, and +10 from the ring and you are sitting at 150.

Epics from BT would need to be countered with epic gems from BT.

please show me the more expensive trinket with spell penetration on it

it takes an insane amount of gear swapping just to counter the shadow resist you can get from 3 pieces of gear + aura

here is what i usually put on:

helm (10)
neck (10)
shoulders (20)
cloak (20)
chest (30)
bracers (10)
pvp ring (10)
trinket (20)
belt (20)

this is 150 spell penetration, not even halfway to countering someone wearing a decent amount of sr.

[Tyveris]

Oh I don't know if there is one, I just mean that potentially you wouldn't want to sacrifice your trinket slot because of how poor the item value is on that one. Maybe try the Eye of Moam if you have one sitting in your bank.

The problem is that 150 penetration should be good enough to counter SR gear and it would be IF people weren't using the ignore macro to throw on a complete 350 SR set.

[buena]

That's a pretty smart 150 penetration set and I think others would be wise to copy your example. Your ratings reflect that you have had at least some success with it, while there are people who have never even tried before giving up. Although it irks me that I suggested using Rune of Perfection, you flamed me for suggesting it, and then it turns out you use it too.

The reason it is fair that it takes 9 pieces to counter the 3-4 SR pieces your enemy is weaing is because all you are giving up across those 9 pieces (well trinket aside) is your gems slots and socket bonuses. You still get the full stats from the item otherwise, along with set bonuses. Some of them (ring, cloak), you are getting full stats period. Meanwhile, your enemy's SR has no stats on it save stamina and SR. They need to wear less pieces, but they give up a lot more on each piece.

This set (trinket aside), giving up nothing but gem and socket bonuses, would be sufficient against most SR-wearing teams. If you ran up against someone really stacking SR to the roof, or a specific example like a pally with high SR that you needed to stick tongues on, you would have to give up more and actually swap out some of your PvP pieces for pieces with more slots or with innate penetration. But it is certainly possible to do so, and in those situations would probably be beneficial.

[Rycho]

no, resists need to be taken out - i still would have the choice of

a. wear that set all the time and lose a LOT more stats than people who are just switching 3 pieces of gear who basically gain hp, lose some resil and offensive stats.

b. try to swap in response to the other team wearing sr, a problem that has already been discussed

there is no fair reason to have large amounts of spell resists in arenas. shadow damage is the most common in high level arenas, and giving people such an easy way to basically be immune to all shadow-based cc and damage is just retarded.

[Rycho]

That's a pretty smart 150 penetration set and I think others would be wise to copy your example. Your ratings reflect that you have had at least some success with it, while there are people who have never even tried before giving up. Although it irks me that I suggested using Rune of Perfection, you flamed me for suggesting it, and then it turns out you use it too.

The reason it is fair that it takes 9 pieces to counter the 3-4 SR pieces your enemy is weaing is because all you are giving up across those 9 pieces (well trinket aside) is your gems slots and socket bonuses. You still get the full stats from the item otherwise, along with set bonuses. Some of them (ring, cloak), you are getting full stats period. Meanwhile, your enemy's SR has no stats on it save stamina and SR. They need to wear less pieces, but they give up a lot more on each piece.

This set (trinket aside), giving up nothing but gem and socket bonuses, would be sufficient against most SR-wearing teams. If you ran up against someone really stacking SR to the roof, or a specific example like a pally with high SR that you needed to stick tongues on, you would have to give up more and actually swap out some of your PvP pieces for pieces with more slots or with innate penetration. But it is certainly possible to do so, and in those situations would probably be beneficial.

i flamed you for suggesting it was fair that my opponents have black temple ilevel items and i don't have black temple level spell penetration gear, because it doesn't exist. the trinket was just an example of how far apart the ilevels are.

also im going to add up the stat difference, post with numbers inc in a little bit.

[buena]

also im going to add up the stat difference, post with numbers inc in a little bit.

I am glad to see I have converted you to the way of research instead of blind flaming; I heartily approve and am prepared to be convinced by your data if it is convincing.

As an interesting note I think the heavy presence of penetration on s3 weapons - specifically WEAPONS - indicates that blizzard cannot or will not fix resist gear being used in arenas. Instead, they are hoping to give players a viable reaction if they notice their opponents wearing SR once the game has started. Weapons are swappable in combat and you'd swap your penetration weapons in. I think to go along with this philosophy it would be reasonable and likely effective to lobby for a penetration weapon enchant to be introduced.

[Rycho]

i've already done the research, i wasn't blindly flaming, genius. i wouldn't be posting here if i didn't already know that what i was saying was correct. i flamed you because you make stupid posts, spell penetration gear in the game at the moment is not an answer to shadow resist. you can get more sr than you can get penetration, and it is easier to get - not everyone has the chance to get 2-3 full sets of gladiator gear like i can, anyone can buy hearts off the ah. it is more difficult to swap gear before the match in response to specifically who you are playing than to swap gear based on what classes you are playing against.

i have the best spell penetration gear for pvp in the game and i still lose matches to sr daily.

if they actually add the offhand then that might help, but they took it off the ptr. right now from season 2 to season 3 i'll gain 20 spell penetration because of the wand, for shadow priests it is even worse because they have to lose int for that, a stat that is actually valuable for them.

[efa]

If Blizzard is smart... they should use this forum as a guide to improve arena instead of listening to those 999999million noobs out there yelling nerf warlock.

[buena]

you can get more sr than you can get penetration, and it is easier to get - not everyone has the chance to get 2-3 full sets of gladiator gear like i can, anyone can buy hearts off the ah.

This is one of several claims you have made in this thread which simply are not true. Anyone, anywhere, with good playing and good teammates, could get multiple PvP sets. Failing that, they could use their season 1 set for it. But not everyone has guilds on their server and faction which are into BT and sufficiently advanced to not need hearts any more.

You also likened 3 pieces of SR (100-140 SR depending on which pieces) to 50% melee mitigation and avoidance. It is less than 30%. And you claimed that stat loss from penetration gear is "far more" than stat loss from SR gear.

Perhaps you do not see that I am giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you have not researched claims such as these. The alternative is that you HAVE researched them, know that they are false, and posted them anyway in order to make yourself look more like a helpless victim. That would be despicable.

[gatoja]

If Blizzard is smart... they should use this forum as a guide to improve arena instead of listening to those 999999million noobs out there yelling nerf warlock.

if they listened to the educated opinions on this forum, warlocks low bracket viability would see further nerfs, and /ignore, /whisper would be disabled in arena.

[Rycho]

This is one of several claims you have made in this thread which simply are not true. Anyone, anywhere, with good playing and good teammates, could get multiple PvP sets. Failing that, they could use their season 1 set for it. But not everyone has guilds on their server and faction which are into BT and sufficiently advanced to not need hearts any more.

sorry, the fact is that every person has not been on a 2300-2500 5v5 since the beginning of the season - i strongly doubt that the majority of warlocks have 2 sets of dreadweave and one of felweave like i was able to get. is it possible? yes, but it takes a long time for most people - i was 1st - 3rd in 5v5 for the majority of the first part of the season and it still took me months. if i wanted shadow resist, i would send a tell to about 10 different guilds on my faction that i know sell hearts and get it crafted within a few hours.

You also likened 3 pieces of SR (100-140 SR depending on which pieces) to 50% melee mitigation and avoidance. It is less than 30%. And you claimed that stat loss from penetration gear is "far more" than stat loss from SR gear.

i made no claims that 140 sr was exactly equal to 50% damage reduction - i said that a paladin (who gets an extra 70 from aura which you aren't counting) putting on sr is able to negate a lot of his weaknesses in 3v3, which would be like me putting on 50% armor and avoidance. right now i have around 20%, so bringing that up to 50 wasn't that bad of an estimate.

sr wearers lose a minimal percentage of their stats - their hp stays the same or goes up, their resil goes down, which doesn't matter because sr is a better defensive stat than resil for the classes that wear it all the time (paladins, shamans, warriors all have high armor anyway) and they lose something like 5-10% of their offensive stats - when you can't be cc'ed or focus fired, that is fairly irrelevant.

when i put on spell penetration i lose a huge amount of damage, resil, and stamina, all of which i need against teams that put sr on, like warrior teams, not at all irrelevant.

Perhaps you do not see that I am giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you have not researched claims such as these. The alternative is that you HAVE researched them, know that they are false, and posted them anyway in order to make yourself look more like a helpless victim. That would be despicable.

i don't even know what you mean by "research". i probably know a great deal more about sr and spell penetration than yourself, seeing as i have to deal with it all the time. you're deliberately (i hope, for your sake) being dense and making arguments against things that i didn't even say, like that 140 sr is 50% damage reduction.

sr is a problem, its obvious to any warlock or shadow priest on a decent rated team - theres no way that switching a few pieces of gear should give some classes such a massive advantage in arena. it isn't needed for anyone to get a high rating, and should be taken out of the game.

[Rycho]

if they listened to the educated opinions on this forum, warlocks low bracket viability would see further nerfs, and /ignore, /whisper would be disabled in arena.

apparently educated means that they agree with you, but /ignore being removed would not fix the problem of people wearing 140 sr at all times and bringing it up to 210 by switching auras.

also, the patch has been out for a total of one day and you already want more warlock nerfs in small brackets, i'd say thats fairly ridiculous. drain life and drain mana were massively nerfed, the focus gem which is probably the most broken for warlocks in smaller brackets was also massively nerfed, and season 3 gear will make this even worse. add to all this the fact that warlocks weren't even part of the best 2v2 comp or the most represented in 2v2 (or even second), i'd say thats enough nerfs for now.

[Rades]

/popcorn

[gatoja]

apparently educated means that they agree with you, but /ignore being removed would not fix the problem of people wearing 140 sr at all times and bringing it up to 210 by switching auras.

also, the patch has been out for a total of one day and you already want more warlock nerfs in small brackets, i'd say thats fairly ridiculous. drain life and drain mana were massively nerfed, the focus gem which is probably the most broken for warlocks in smaller brackets was also massively nerfed, and season 3 gear will make this even worse. add to all this the fact that warlocks weren't even part of the best 2v2 comp or the most represented in 2v2 (or even second), i'd say thats enough nerfs for now.

how many teams actually queue in with 140 sr? The only times I see this are when they believe that there are only one or two high level teams queuing as well. I mean on first queuing in for the day, how many teams load up on SR to start things up?

As for nerfing warlocks more... they do need it. Blizzard is taking things slow, but I seriously doubt elemental shaman and mages are going to usurp warlocks place in the 2v2 brackets any time soon.

[buena]

sr wearers lose a minimal percentage of their stats - their hp stays the same or goes up, their resil goes down, which doesn't matter because sr is a better defensive stat than resil for the classes that wear it all the time (paladins, shamans, warriors all have high armor anyway) and they lose something like 5-10% of their offensive stats - when you can't be cc'ed or focus fired, that is fairly irrelevant.

when i put on spell penetration i lose a huge amount of damage, resil, and stamina, all of which i need against teams that put sr on, like warrior teams, not at all irrelevant.

You are arguing here that common SR-wearing classes lose stats that aren't as relevant for them as the stats you lose to wear penetration are relevant for you. This is a different argument than saying people simply lose less stats to wear SR than they do to wear penetration. It is a better argument.

[Rycho]

You are arguing here that common SR-wearing classes lose stats that aren't as relevant for them as the stats you lose to wear penetration are relevant for you. This is a different argument than saying people simply lose less stats to wear SR than they do to wear penetration. It is a better argument.

both are true.

i'm losing stats to behave like i normally would in a match with abilities like curse of tongues and fear.

they are losing stats to not only play like they normally would, but also to have almost immunity to focus fire and to shadow-based cc. when they have the ability to cast 2 sec holy lights while not being spell locked or feared, its ok if they have 50 less +healing - they will still heal for more.

i still lose more stats though.

[Rycho]

how many teams actually queue in with 140 sr? The only times I see this are when they believe that there are only one or two high level teams queuing as well. I mean on first queuing in for the day, how many teams load up on SR to start things up?

As for nerfing warlocks more... they do need it. Blizzard is taking things slow, but I seriously doubt elemental shaman and mages are going to usurp warlocks place in the 2v2 brackets any time soon.

as someone who has played a warlock on the top of the ladders since arena started, trust me on the fact that a huge number of teams wear sr all the time.

i also doubt elemental shamans and mages are going to be replacing warriors anytime either in 2v2, whats your point?

[gatoja]

as someone who has played a warlock on the top of the ladders since arena started, trust me on the fact that a huge number of teams wear sr all the time.

i also doubt elemental shamans and mages are going to be replacing warriors anytime either in 2v2, whats your point?

first of all, we are not discussing warriors in anyway.

And if SR is so detrimental to your 2v2 success, how did you and many other warlocks succeed?

[Rycho]

first of all, we are not discussing warriors in anyway.

And if SR is so detrimental to your 2v2 success, how did you and many other warlocks succeed?

lets see, you say warlocks need more nerfs in smaller brackets, but warriors have a higher representation, but you don't want to discuss them.

sr is a bigger deal in 3v3 and 5v5 to me, 2v2 i don't really care about (i actually quit my #1 team yesterday because i hate playing lock/healer).

[efa]

how many teams actually queue in with 140 sr?

I am not sure abt your battlegroup, there are at least 3 pally/warrior pally/warlock team in my BG that use SR gear on the pally where the pally is simply not Cursable, not fearable.
Once I've got that team again and I know we dont stand a chance so I've done some testing in spamming Curse on the paladin and guess what?
The game finish in 2mins26secs and during the battle, I've only managed to get 5 cruse off.

The pally start off with 140 SR without aura? I dont think so. he is wearing cap SR gear for sure mixing with some T6 to balance out the +healing loss. He didnt wear any visable S2 arena gear btw and its not like he need resilience and hp against my team at all.
Do you think such a gear setup is their standard arena equipment? Do you think they didnt use the exploit?

[Rycho]

I am not sure abt your battlegroup, there are at least 3 pally/warrior pally/warlock team in my BG that use SR gear on the pally where the pally is simply not Cursable, not fearable.
Once I've got that team again and I know we dont stand a chance so I've done some testing in spamming Curse on the paladin and guess what?
The game finish in 2mins26secs and during the battle, I've only managed to get 5 cruse off.

The pally start off with 140 SR without aura? I dont think so. he is wearing cap SR gear for sure mixing with some T6 to balance out the +healing loss. He didnt wear any visable S2 arena gear btw and its not like he need resilience and hp against my team at all.
Do you think such a gear setup is their standard arena equipment? Do you think they didnt use the exploit?

SORRY JUST USE SPELL PENETRATION DUH LAWL NOOB

[efa]

i hate playing lock/healer

Warlock + another dps (most common will be mace rogue) is a good counter to SR resist team as the damage output of the team is not purely shadow.
I've thought of this long ago but too bad.... my best 2v2 buddy are healers and I am not ditching them for some stupid SR team.

[Rycho]

Warlock + another dps (most common will be mace rogue) is a good counter to SR resist team as the damage output of the team is not purely shadow.
I've thought of this long ago but too bad.... my best 2v2 buddy are healers and I am not ditching them for some stupid SR team.

not really - i cant imagine dropping someone that has a healer without being able to fear the healer or spell lock the healer or curse the healer and all my dots tick for 100 on the target.

[efa]

SORRY JUST USE SPELL PENETRATION DUH LAWL NOOB

@2250 ratings in my BG and timezone, there are only 4 combos

Druid/Warrior - I can barely maintain a 50% win rate against this combo
Warlock/Healer - abt 50% win rate
Warlock/DPS - Good win rate against this combo too
SR team - no chance

If I socket full penetration gem, its likely that I will loss more often to druid/warrior, mirror match. Spending gold to socket peneration gem to get a better chance against SR team while reducing the win rate against other team is not a good solution.

Needless to say the SR team who abuse the exploit probably will switch back to normal gear before arena start while I am still wearing spell penetration set.

Spell penetration against normal SR team is good, but its wont help much against exploitor.

[efa]

not really - i cant imagine dropping someone that has a healer without being able to fear the healer or spell lock the healer or curse the healer and all my dots tick for 100 on the target.
I havent meet any double SR team so far.
Most of the time its the healer being immune to shadow spell and so he is immune to CC and mana drain.

[Rycho]

@2250 ratings in my BG and timezone, there are only 4 combos

Druid/Warrior - I can barely maintain a 50% win rate against this combo
Warlock/Healer - abt 50% win rate
Warlock/DPS - Good win rate against this combo too
SR team - no chance

If I socket full penetration gem, its likely that I will loss more often to druid/warrior, mirror match. Spending gold to socket peneration gem to get a better chance against SR team while reducing the win rate against other team is not a good solution.

Needless to say the SR team who abuse the exploit probably will switch back to normal gear before arena start while I am still wearing spell penetration set.

Spell penetration against normal SR team is good, but its wont help much against exploitor.

yeah i was just being sarcastic anyway, if spell penetration fixed anything i wouldn't be posting on this topic

[efa]

Rycho is that why u are demon spec?

[Rycho]

im specced fg right now to screw around in bgs

[Faceroller]

It's mindboggling to see how people can still defend SR gear. Like really. The justifications and arguments and logic and ignorance of the classes affected makes me wonder how people are this stupid.

We should make a complete list of stupid arguments defending SR gear.

Here are a few:

Use penetration gear (MORE SR THAN PENETRATION GEAR)
Use fire spells (my personal favourite, I can immediately tell the person is clinically retarded)
Locks are imba so it's ok (second favourite if the person saying it is a warrior or plays with a warrior)
You brought it on yourself when you made an all shadow based team (ignorance ftw, it destroys combos like rogue/warlock too, idiots)
SR gimps stats enough for you to beat them (lol, ok. lowering stats by like 10% in exchange for 50-80% shadow damage mitigation and resist rate is really hamstringing them)

Any I missed?

[Rycho]

It's mindboggling to see how people can still defend SR gear. Like really. The justifications and arguments and logic and ignorance of the classes affected makes me wonder how people are this stupid.

We should make a complete list of stupid arguments defending SR gear.

Here are a few:

Use penetration gear (MORE SR THAN PENETRATION GEAR)
Use fire spells (my personal favourite, I can immediately tell the person is clinically retarded)
Locks are imba so it's ok (second favourite if the person saying it is a warrior or plays with a warrior)
You brought it on yourself when you made an all shadow based team (ignorance ftw, it destroys combos like rogue/warlock too, idiots)
SR gimps stats enough for you to beat them (lol, ok. lowering stats by like 10% in exchange for 50-80% shadow damage mitigation and resist rate is really hamstringing them)

Any I missed?

i think you missed the one where they make a vague comment about how its a "tactical decision" or "strategy" and we need to "learn to adapt"

[Ridzik]

after finally killing the lock in a long mirror match today i wanted to talk to the enemy ne druid and i couldn't. bug or has the whisper/ignore thing been fixed?

[Diabolical]

fixed in patch.

[buena]

@2250 ratings in my BG and timezone, there are only 4 combos

Druid/Warrior - I can barely maintain a 50% win rate against this combo
Warlock/Healer - abt 50% win rate
Warlock/DPS - Good win rate against this combo too
SR team - no chance

If I socket full penetration gem, its likely that I will loss more often to druid/warrior, mirror match. Spending gold to socket peneration gem to get a better chance against SR team while reducing the win rate against other team is not a good solution

Socketing 70 penetration will help you against 3 out of those 4 teams and is a good idea on principle. Making and using the rest of a 150, 200, or even 250 penetration set will help against people in heavy SR but hurt against people in normal gear. Whether and when to wear it becomes, indeed, a "tactical decision."

Needless to say the SR team who abuse the exploit probably will switch back to normal gear before arena start while I am still wearing spell penetration set.

Spell penetration against normal SR team is good, but its wont help much against exploitor.

This doesn't make sense - the exploit just tells them who they are facing, not what gear you are wearing. They only know you are wearing your penetration set after the fight stars (if they even notice then) and it is too late to switch back.

Maybe you are against using /ignore to check your own opponent, and you just meant wearing penetration set all the time. To me, it is fair to /ignore them if they have done it to you first. Which they obviously have if they come out wearing capped SR.

[Rycho]

Socketing 70 penetration will help you against 3 out of those 4 teams and is a good idea on principle. Making and using the rest of a 150, 200, or even 250 penetration set will help against people in heavy SR but hurt against people in normal gear. Whether and when to wear it becomes, indeed, a "tactical decision."

rofl

k give me the tactical decision to put on 50% dodge gear

[efa]

It's mindboggling to see how people can still defend SR gear. Like really. The justifications and arguments and logic and ignorance of the classes affected makes me wonder how people are this stupid.

We should make a complete list of stupid arguments defending SR gear.

Here are a few:

Use penetration gear (MORE SR THAN PENETRATION GEAR)
Use fire spells (my personal favourite, I can immediately tell the person is clinically retarded)
Locks are imba so it's ok (second favourite if the person saying it is a warrior or plays with a warrior)
You brought it on yourself when you made an all shadow based team (ignorance ftw, it destroys combos like rogue/warlock too, idiots)
SR gimps stats enough for you to beat them (lol, ok. lowering stats by like 10% in exchange for 50-80% shadow damage mitigation and resist rate is really hamstringing them)

Any I missed?


You can be the idol of all warlock :D
I wish you work for blizzard

[gatoja]

rofl

k give me the tactical decision to put on 50% dodge gear

give me the tactical decision to put on 50% resistance to drain effects
give me the tactical decision to put on 50% resistance to silence effects
give me the tactical decision to put on 50% resistance to fear effects
give me the tactical decision to put on 50% resistance to not get my totems wanded
give me the tactical decision to put on 50% resistance to dispel effects

etc, etc, etc, etc...

my point is, the gear you ask for does not exist, just like mine.

BUT you can do something about it through spell penetration before blizzard has to step in.

Is it a half-ass solution? Yes, but quit acting like it is not a solution at all.

[Rycho]

give me the tactical decision to put on 50% resistance to drain effects
give me the tactical decision to put on 50% resistance to silence effects
give me the tactical decision to put on 50% resistance to fear effects
give me the tactical decision to put on 50% resistance to not get my totems wanded
give me the tactical decision to put on 50% resistance to dispel effects

etc, etc, etc, etc...

my point is, the gear you ask for does not exist, just like mine.

BUT you can do something about it through spell penetration before blizzard has to step in.

Is it a half-ass solution? Yes, but quit acting like it is not a solution at all.

thats the point, it doesnt exist for anything else so it shouldnt exist for shadow-based dps

[gatoja]

thats the point, it doesnt exist for anything else so it shouldnt exist for shadow-based dps


NO ONE DISAGREES WITH YOU!

what has been said is that there are solutions to the problem that are live that help mitigate this fact. You refuse to do anything and just whine how unfair it is.

Stack spell penetration. Its half-assed but its there.


Damn, I remember when everyone was complaining about how dots were not affected by resilience. Do you remember what the warlocks told everyone? Well people listened to the warlocks advice.

[Rycho]

NO ONE DISAGREES WITH YOU!

what has been said is that there are solutions to the problem that are live that help mitigate this fact. You refuse to do anything and just whine how unfair it is.

Stack spell penetration. Its half-assed but its there.


Damn, I remember when everyone was complaining about how dots were not affected by resilience. Do you remember what the warlocks told everyone? Well people listened to the warlocks advice.

yes, people do disagree, retard - read the thread.

i do stack spell penetration, i still lose games to sr. i even detailed exaclty what i wear. you saying that i refuse to wear spell penetration and that all i do is whine just makes you look incredibly dumb to anyone that read the whole thread.

you're an idiot.

[Rycho]

oh and i believe what warlocks said was that dots can be dispelled, so they didn't need another way to be mitigated.

[Faceroller]

NO ONE DISAGREES WITH YOU!

what has been said is that there are solutions to the problem that are live that help mitigate this fact. You refuse to do anything and just whine how unfair it is.

Stack spell penetration. Its half-assed but its there.


Damn, I remember when everyone was complaining about how dots were not affected by resilience. Do you remember what the warlocks told everyone? Well people listened to the warlocks advice.

I don't get what part of MORE SR THAN PENETRATION GEAR you don't understand. What every non-moron is saying is that spell penetration would be a decent counter if the opposition couldn't stack double the SR for every point of penetration we can put on. Also, what stops them from just not putting on SR when they find out that we use penetration against them? They always know that we will use shadow spells, as I can't very well choose to play another class in the prep room. However, I don't always know if they will pull a switch up and force me to use stupidly low ilevel gear with wasted stats against full pvp gear.

Oh