Why not reflective shield

[p_mxv]

Everyone seems to not like reflective shield.

I can see with a warrior it being bad maybe but warrior/druid, warrior/priest is an autoloss anyway in 2v2.

But I prob cast shield 13x a fight in 2v2 on avg thats like 20k dmg w/ reflective shield...

So just wondering why nobody likes/gets it.

[Wonder]

I'm baffled.

[Alaran]

Reflective Sheild is bad for a few reasons all pertaining mainly to CC. Any class that has the ability to DoT becomes nearly immune to 'break on damage' CC, such as blind/poly/seduce/repentance. Often in arena it is a loss if your team is unable to CC a warrior off of his target. For example: Opposing team warrior is going for you he lands a crit applying deep wounds and now you are stuck with a choice -CC warrior- or -use a sheild to help protect from the rest of the teams burst- as its nearly impossible to keep track of every opposing players DoTs reflective sheild is a VERY bad choice for any serious PvP other then dueling. (I'm an engineer I do numbers not words sorry if its hardly legible)

(ShortandFat I remember you from when I was GM of Wrath on chromaggus lol)

[Sekah]

Reflective Sheild is bad for a few reasons all pertaining mainly to CC. Any class that has the ability to DoT becomes nearly immune to 'break on damage' CC, such as blind/poly/seduce/repentance. Often in arena it is a loss if your team is unable to CC a warrior off of his target. For example: Opposing team warrior is going for you he lands a crit applying deep wounds and now you are stuck with a choice -CC warrior- or -use a sheild to help protect from the rest of the teams burst- as its nearly impossible to keep track of every opposing players DoTs reflective sheild is a VERY bad choice for any serious PvP other then dueling. (I'm an engineer I do numbers not words sorry if its hardly legible)

(ShortandFat I remember you from when I was GM of Wrath on chromaggus lol)

I thought I heard that the cc-breaking issues of reflective shield were exaggerated by people who haven't taken the time to test it personally. (I'm one of those lazy people, but plan to see for myself when I respec in S3.) Anyone with first hand experience?

[Synir]

As far as I know, reflective shield doesn't break CC.

[p_mxv]

I could just test it myself but easier to ask.

Does reflective shield actually interrupt also? like e.g. Mindflay?

Also Alaran what was your characters name on Wrath?

[leogeo2]

I know that the shield does push back spell casts, I'm unaware if it is able to break CC effects.

[padrote]

A dwarf priest on the PTR can test if it breaks CC or not. Have someone put a dot on you. Shield yourself and chastise. Have to get the dot to tick in that 2 second window though.

Otherwise you'd need a mage friend and an arena type setting.

[Iceballz]

>^.^<

[leogeo2]

Could always find a mage buddy of yours as well as someone who can dot, go to the STV arena and test it.

[efa]

I am so glad to hear so many noobcake here who dont understand the true power of reflective shield.

Have fun sucking in arena :)

[buena]

yea yea we know you cant shadowbolt because corruption is ticking on a shield

the problem is that our mage cant sheep either, for the same reason

[Xeanor]

I want to hear about these tests

[bryte]

Same same

[Eraxis]

question is if anyone is conducting them.

[Wonder]

As someone who's had Reflective Shield, I can tell you that it doesn't break CC.

It shares that quality with Thorns, Fire Shield, and Lightning Shield.

[Skizzles]

The main reason why priests don't get it is because it breaks cc.

I used to play 2v2 with a hunter. I was full disc w/ reflective shield. We were able to beat MS warrior / paladin teams the majority of the time. But when I had Reflective Shield, when the warrior proced deep wounds, and my partner would trap him, it would break the trap due to the damage reflect from the deep wounds doing damage to me. That is just one example of where Reflective Shield does more harm than good.

[Dune]

It breaks CC for anyone who can DOT...
*(freq.) warriors, warlocks, s.priests, hunters
*(to a lesser extent) rogues, druids, h.priests
*(rarely) paladins, mages, shaman

making it terrible if you run with...
*mage: poly near impossible
*rogue: have to triple check blinds, gouge breaks early
*hunters: no traps, scatter breaks early

The problem is once a team notices you have it druids/h.priests will make good use of rank1 swp/moonfire to avoid blind/sheep - making it the worst investment ever.

If you ran priest/healer/warrior or something you could make a strong case for it, but for most people it's untouchable. Unless of course they changed it in 2.3 and it doesn't break cc, but that's unlikely. It's a shame because it does do a lot of damage over a full arena match :(

[Wonder]

The only time Reflective Shield has ever broken CC was during patch 2.1.

[Earrl]

The only time Reflective Shield has ever broken CC was during patch 2.1.

It does break on Physical DoT's, like Deep Wounds and stuff like that. But definitely not Warlock DoT's and crap like that.

[Eraxis]

Is anyone able to go test this once and for all with a warrior and a mage. We're not getting anywhere.

[leogeo2]

I'm probably gonna conduct this test with a warrior, warlock and a mage in the STV arena later to see how it'll work.

[Wonder]

It does break on Physical DoT's, like Deep Wounds and stuff like that. But definitely not Warlock DoT's and crap like that.

That explains why later that day I tried to break my partner's Freezing just to see, and couldn't get it to happen.

>_>

[Sekah]

I'm probably gonna conduct this test with a warrior, warlock and a mage in the STV arena later to see how it'll work.

May as well toss in a hemo rogue too just to be certain.

[Dune]

Mmm so it only breaks on physical DOTs? I wonder if thats intended, if blizzard ever fixed that then we'd be talking :o

[Wonder]

May as well toss in a hemo rogue too just to be certain.

Hemorrhage is not a DOT.

[leogeo2]

So apparently the shield doesn't break any type of CC what so ever.

[Kholdstayr]

So apparently the shield doesn't break any type of CC what so ever.

wut

[Playdough]

I tested the following on test -

Myself, Rogue, Hunter.

We went to STV arena, rogue built up 5 combo points on me hit me with a rupture and then we frost trapped the rogue, I then shielded and it broke frost trap.

If deep wounds works the same as rupture then it will break CC.

[Alaran]

I tested the following on test -

Myself, Rogue, Hunter.

We went to STV arena, rogue built up 5 combo points on me hit me with a rupture and then we frost trapped the rogue, I then shielded and it broke frost trap.

If deep wounds works the same as rupture then it will break CC.

Thanks for verifying how wasteful these talents are for 90% of the preist community. If blizzard wants to make these talent useful for any high rated priest reflected dmg needs to not break CC or again just replace the talent overall. Dueling talents ftl.

[Wonder]

Thanks for verifying how wasteful these talents are for 90% of the preist community. If blizzard wants to make these talent useful for any high rated priest reflected dmg needs to not break CC or again just replace the talent overall. Dueling talents ftl.

90% of the Priest community permanently has a Rupture ticking from a Polymorphed or Frozen Rogue?

[Alaran]

90% of the Priest community permanently has a Rupture ticking from a Polymorphed or Frozen Rogue?

It was a bit of an exaggeration obviously... but yes i would say north of 75% of the priest community plays in arena with a class that has 'break on damage' CC. Also i'm not referring to rupture as the main issue its deep wounds... lesser cases would be priest/rogue vrs druid/warrior. druid keeps DoT on rogue to reduce chance to hit, warrior is getting low so your rogue blinds and druid... the opposing warrior double crits your rogue you have to sheild and then the druid is free to heal. if you look at all the possibilites its a terrible set of talents outside of dueling. (sheild are terribly inefficient and you should not argue this as a good source of damage esp. as many teams dispel the sheild before it is close to broken)

[Mano]

I think I'll be taking it for sure for my 2s with a warrior. It's nice as we will be able to nuke teams down as of tomorrow. Let's take a classical Shaman / Warrior setup.
If we split it up and make it his warrior vs. me and his healer vs. my warrior I'd lose the mana duell (well actually I'm not entirely sure, but most probably). But with shield doing some 800 dmg all 13 seconds with a SW:P and DP + SW : D up whenever ready I + shadowfiend I'm pressuring the warrior extremly. Atm I play 28/33, but I can't wait for the extra dmg. Well sounds good in theorie - am atleast gonna give it a shot. And in 3's We also are starting to play with pala/priest/warrior. That should be nice with 30% more heal on me.

[Pobzy]

Me and my holy priest partner in 2v2's have just won 3 games vs shamans because of reflective shield. I was draining the shaman who was kiting me and had a hard time getting him down when he was low (nature guardian ), and I noticed the warrior's health on 20% with my priest only SW:Ping and shielding so i just bursted down the warr (imba burst oO). So, even though it did break my freezing trap couple of times, when timed well it is very useful

[Parmesan]

I dont understand why people think this talent is bad. If the talent breaks on melee dots, (which one person has said yes and one said no) it is still very viable.

Take for example, you are running a 2345 with a lock, instead of the mage there is no CC taht reflective sheild would drastically effect. infact it will help u take less damage due to it causing spell pushback. Also it make PW:S much much more mana efficient.

Also to the person talking about a blind how offen does one blind a warrior in 2s, it seems to me its usually a blind on the healer to kill the warrior.

but meh to each his own i guess

[Eve]

Because even with SR my shield often gets purged so I don't think 5 points is really a sound investment.

[Alaran]

I am bias towards this mainly because I PvP with a mage and we play very defensively so CC is our life line. But since this thread was started by shortandfat im going to go ahead and bring it back to his persective... I talked with shantino today and he told me you are his priest so pretty much do whatever you want you have one of the best rogues in the game in front of you... don't use any talents and you guys will be 2k+ haha

[izrafel]

well... this scenario puts me off reflective shield the most:

A warrior is on you (very often when ur a priest)
warrior crits therefore deepwound.
you have pw:shield on u.
your hp is getting low so your mage teammate goes ahead to sheep the warrior. sheep breaks because of reflective shield (deep wound ticking on you and pw:shield on)

This kind of thing is very common especially in 5v5 if you run with a mage or even in 3v3 if you run with a rogue and the rogue trys to blind that warrior off u.

Having said that i really wish it didn't work like that because i like the talent alot (respecing just to duel is >.<)

[trundler]

I'm enjoying reflective shield quite a bit, but none of my teams run with break-on-damage cc, so your mileage may vary.

[Lene]

imo RS is quite in 2vs2

[p_mxv]

I tested it, its not just rupture.

Shielded Rogue -> started duel -> casted SW:P -> he blinded.

it broke blind. Im not sure if I will take it anymore.

[Wonder]

Good to know, thanks for the testing.

[izrafel]

I tested it, its not just rupture.

Shielded Rogue -> started duel -> casted SW:P -> he blinded.

it broke blind. Im not sure if I will take it anymore.

agreed.

reflective shield looking like a dueling talent.

can't really think of any viable team makeups where reflective shield breaking CCs wouldn't be a problem or would only be a minor problem? (maybe warr/pally/pri)

[Gragnarth]

agreed.

reflective shield looking like a dueling talent.

can't really think of any viable team makeups where reflective shield breaking CCs wouldn't be a problem or would only be a minor problem? (maybe warr/pally/pri)


my 5s team now has a disc team with reflective sheild

our setup is disc preist/holy pally/ resto shaman / MS warrior X2

[izrafel]

my 5s team now has a disc team with reflective sheild

our setup is disc preist/holy pally/ resto shaman / MS warrior X2

i stand corrected :)

[trundler]

my 5s team now has a disc team with reflective sheild

our setup is disc preist/holy pally/ resto shaman / MS warrior X2

Same.

[Ceylin]

I haven't gotten too good at it yet, but I am able to beat good MS warriors in duels with a PS/Reflective shield spec. I 2v2 with a rogue, and this gives me the possibility of pulling the warrior away from fight and fighting him 1on1. How great would it be when the other teams healer sees his warrior go behind a pillar to fight the priest, and then doesn't come back? :)

[Synir]

By the way, from my games today as 41+ disc... one decent benefit of Reflective Shield is that the damage it procs take out grounding totems. I saw "killing blow: grounding totem" on my SCT many times.

[Earrl]

By the way, from my games today as 41+ disc... one decent benefit of Reflective Shield is that the damage it procs take out grounding totems. I saw "killing blow: grounding totem" on my SCT many times.

Or you could walk up and hit it :-P.

I see what you're saying, but this talent is for dueling purposes only. It is pointless imo if you are serious about Arena.

[Vallyn]

I think reflective shield is nice and I don't think that the cc break is THAT big of an issue. Most teams won't have time to figure out if you have it or not. But I think it's just a matter of only having 61 talent points. There's no room for it in a healer's build. Reflective shield is more of a 1v1 spec for an offensive disc priest, I think if your priority is healing in the arena, there's better talent points. Disc has so many useful talents that it's hard to shoose which ones to take. Most top bracket disc priests dont use reflective shield enlightenment or improved power word shield not because they're bad talents but you have to evaluate what is more valuable. When you count the numbers you get from enlightenment, thats like 400 hp/mana average for 5 talent points and to spec that you have to spc out of silent resolve or some really helpful survivability talents in the holy tree. Same thing for reflective shield, every 15 secs you could deal 600-800 damage in situations where the guy hitting you will generally have a healer backing him up and 1 hot will cover the damage you deal. Those 5 points means you prbably don't have silent resolve or spell warding or something so your survivability is alot lower.