2.3 hemo builds

[Insight]

I'm thorn between 0/31/30 (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhfV0rVt0b0oZxMjoMGRoL) and 4/31/26 (swich AP talents to malice), could also take 1 point away from heigh senses into deadliness/malice. Didnt bother with riposte since I'm planning to play 2s with spriest where I wont really get nuked, so let's just disregard riposte vs no riposte arguments here ;p

I'm usually going for crit, most gems on my rogue are agi/crit/sta, got 30% crit and 1350~ ap with standard 19/42 mace combat. Is 130ish ap better then 4-5% crit? Doesnt seem so to me, but I'm barely playing rogue lately and didnt check the difference on ptr.

For those who played on ptr or just think that they have valid arguments for either of those, what to pick, and why?

[Bingham]

um if ur gonna do that id take out SnD and take out blade twisting for the 5/5 parry and only go 4/5 for dual wield and get riposte.

[phuzed]

I havnt done a whole lot of testing but from what im hearing its AP you want to be stacking with a hemo build. Then again im not a number cruncher so dont quote me.

Here is what im probably gunna rock.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhdEzbVt000oZxrfoMuRox

[Fallen]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhjV0bVt0M0oZxMjoMuRox

Just do it

[Zerkamor]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhjV0bVt0M0oZxMjoMuRox

Just do it
Why would you pick 2% dodge over Imp. Kick ?

Also, to the build above his, Blade Twisting doesn't proc off Hemo. Unless they change it (doubtful), Weapon Expertise would be considered better.

Here's the build I'll be using next tuesday : http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhfV0rVt0M0oZxMjoMuRox

[Cramerr]

I havnt done a whole lot of testing but from what im hearing its AP you want to be stacking with a hemo build. Then again im not a number cruncher so dont quote me.

Here is what im probably gunna rock.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhdEzbVt000oZxrfoMuRox

That is the exact build I'll be speccing, we'll see with the expertise changes how useful it actually becomes though.

[Zhbog]

Was looking at the same build, but wow giving up steel nerves and improved kick is a tough one. I do like the 10% AP, but my current spec is only 2/5... so 4%.

I know we ALL need more talent points :)

[Insight]

um if ur gonna do that id take out SnD and take out blade twisting for the 5/5 parry and only go 4/5 for dual wield and get riposte.

New disarm mechanics kinda slipped my mind, along with blade twisting not proccing off hemo, so I'll take riposte. http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0xZhbEzrmt000oZxMjoMuRo vs malice->deadliness is the question now.

Noone answered my question though, is deadliness > malice and why?

PS. to those who put expertise with mace spec, expertise doesnt affect it, unless that changes in 2.3? Dont remember seeing that.

[dkumofo]

New disarm mechanics kinda slipped my mind, along with blade twisting not proccing off hemo, so I'll take riposte. http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0xZhbEzrmt000oZxMjoMuRo vs malice->deadliness is the question now.

Noone answered my question though, is deadliness > malice and why?

PS. to those who put expertise with mace spec, expertise doesnt affect it, unless that changes in 2.3? Dont remember seeing that.


For hemo, AP> crit.

[Insight]

Why? It's balanced to 2.4 weapon speed in 2.3, so it no longers scales with only weapon dmg+ap. If I got it right, only difference between hemo and SS will be that hemo does slightly more dmg because it's normalised to 2.4 instead of 2.6.

[rot]

If anything, I'd go with a 0/33/28 build with points in nerves of steel and deadliness. I haven't checked it out on a spreadsheet or anything, but I'd imagine the dps increase from the ap would be higher than that of the crit.

[Zhbog]

PS. to those who put expertise with mace spec, expertise doesnt affect it, unless that changes in 2.3? Dont remember seeing that.

In 2.3 experise gives your attacks a chance not to be dodged and parried.

[Fallen]

Why would you pick 2% dodge over Imp. Kick ?

Also, to the build above his, Blade Twisting doesn't proc off Hemo. Unless they change it (doubtful), Weapon Expertise would be considered better.

Here's the build I'll be using next tuesday : http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhfV0rVt0M0oZxMjoMuRox

L2hit your kick ! :P

But really tho, I don't see imp kick as any help compared to 2% dodge :p that's just me then I guess

[Cramerr]

If anything, I'd go with a 0/33/28 build with points in nerves of steel and deadliness. I haven't checked it out on a spreadsheet or anything, but I'd imagine the dps increase from the ap would be higher than that of the crit.

At around 1300 AP, 10% AP becomes better than 5% crit against a 300+ resil target, so 0/31/30 or 0/33/28 will be the way to go for AR/prep.

[MentalPROblem]

Damn, I seem to have missed something out there...
Why everyone is so excited about hemo builds? Can anyone explain me what's gonna be so insanely cool about that compared to old combat maces/mutilate speccs?
Thanks in advance.

[Cramerr]

Damn, I seem to have missed something out there...
Why everyone is so excited about hemo builds? Can anyone explain me what's gonna be so insanely cool about that compared to old combat maces/mutilate speccs?
Thanks in advance.

With the hemo buff and dirty deeds buff (rogue execute gogogo) and of course prep, a 0/31/30 build offers good burst, good sustained and decent mobility.

[phuzed]

Damn, I seem to have missed something out there...
Why everyone is so excited about hemo builds? Can anyone explain me what's gonna be so insanely cool about that compared to old combat maces/mutilate speccs?
Thanks in advance.

I wasn't gunna hop on the bandwagon I kept telling myself until I went over to the PTR and gave Hemo a nice good test.

It feels like combat mace dmg is being done PLUS you get 2 sets of cooldowns and the cool sneaky talents of Sub..

I wanted to be mutilate really bad for S3 but hemo might be too much to pass up.

But, with that said, im gunna make sure I give a try to both hemo and mutilate on live then make my final decision. I might even use hemo for 2v2, 3v3 and rock mutilate for 5v5 or something after I get weapons for both who knows.

[vexo]

I'm going to get maces s3 and then if ar\prep isn't working it for me ill go 20/41, i really wanted to stay mutilate but with all the people talking about how ar\prep is the best i'm going to have to give it a shot

[drumbum]

PS. to those who put expertise with mace spec, expertise doesnt affect it, unless that changes in 2.3? Dont remember seeing that.

Expertise will affect all weapon types, including maces.

[MentalPROblem]

Think the best option for me would be grabbing some pieces of armour at the beginning of the season and get s1 maces for honour to test hemo or combat maces speccs.
But still, what is your guys' opinion on whether it will be better than mutilate or combat maces, or it's basicall just another thing, meaning that at certain cases it will bebetter and sometimes otherwise?
Because lot

[Qor]

anyone consider 37/24?

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhfV0rVt0MMRbxrfoMhRo

I will probably start s3 with this build.

[vexo]

anyone consider 37/24?

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhfV0rVt0MMRbxrfoMhRo

I will probably start s3 with this build.

no riposte?

[Zhbog]

Wow, I just cannot decide... which one of these would you recomend and what am I missing? Riposte seems so powerful with the for sure disarm of at least 3 seconds, but you lose so much if you take it. However, it could mean the difference of a win or lose. grr..

Option 1 (0/33/28):
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?0000000000000000000003021550120055100 000012005022231002311210300000

Option 2 (0/33/28):
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?0000000000000000000003023050022055100 020012005022231002311210300000

Thanks,
Zh

[vexo]

im thinking 0/34/27 http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhbEzrVt000RZxrfoMuRob

[Gankx]

I think i'll be using this build for S3

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhbEzrmt000oZxrfoMuRox

[Zhbog]

That is the exact build I'll be speccing, we'll see with the expertise changes how useful it actually becomes though.

Any feedback on this one? Has anyone found this is useful? I seem to be hitting more and not getting as parried more, but is it really worth the 2 points.

[phuzed]

Im not sure what exactly to do either.

As of right now im 30/31 with 5/5 deadliness and no nerves of steel. I was hoping the extra sets of cooldowns will counter balance having less stun/fear resist.

So hard to make a decision on a just a few talents.

[buena]

It's odd that in 3 pages no one has even contemplated assassination hemo specs. Granted that the loss of mace stun is a big deal, and cold blood is in most situations inferior to AR. But in most possible specs, it's not 1 for 1 even trade: it's cold blood AND premed vs AR. CP generation would be much better, you have access to the anti-cleanse talent if you want, and you run faster than anyone else. And all the DPS talents in assassination (or further down sub) would give combat a run for its money in DPS inceases - I'll try to estimate some math on it.

Possible assassination hemo specs:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhebRmMoZZxReo0GRkgoh
(23/0/38) Probably my favorite, gets lots of good utility talents but still the major DPS ones

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhebRmMoiZZxMjoMGRoLo
(30/0/31) My buddy the raiding rogue who spends a lot of time with spreadsheets swears that this distribution was the highest sustained DPS build he could make. Ya rly. I moved some points into utility talents but not that many. I have my doubts about the utility of this transferring to arenas, but I do think that SF procs off crits negated by resilience so it might not be bad to test.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhebRzZZVMjoMGRseot
(17/0/44) Shadowstep lol. Hey you know you're going to have to try it sometime anyway.




(crudely) estimated maths for 23/0/38 DPS talents vs 0/31/30 DPS talents:
23/0/38:
Sinister Calling: 40ish agi - ~3% dps?
Malice - ~4% dps (resilience accounted for)
Murder - 2% dps
Improved Evis: ~1.5%
Improved expose: up to 6% dps if you fully expose, lets call it ~3% on average?
Relentless and Ruthlessness: beyond my mental mathing ability so not counted
TOTAL: 13.5% AT LEAST

0/31/30
Precision: ~3% dps (assuming you have at least 5% hit on gear in any build)
DW spec: ~10% dps
Mace spec: ~1.5% dps
TOTAL: 14.5%

[Dreamers]

See i was thinking:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhbEzrmt000oZxrfoMuRox

You still get Ripsote while holding the 3 points in deadliness and 2 in Nerves of Steel. The only problem is you do not get bladeflurry and you dont get weapon expertise.

Feedback would be greatly appreciated =P

[Zhbog]

See i was thinking:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhbEzrmt000oZxrfoMuRox

You still get Ripsote while holding the 3 points in deadliness and 2 in Nerves of Steel. The only problem is you do not get bladeflurry and you dont get weapon expertise.

Feedback would be greatly appreciated =P

Did you post the right link? The one above has blade flurry and 5/5 deadliness.

[Zhbog]

Is this spec even with considering? With sub being a bleed spec and rupture giving 30% more dmg switching 3/3 gouge to 5/5 dodge. Then with the extra dodge 3/3 set for 1 combo point for the dodge. I haven't tried this, but it is one of the many 0/31/30 specs. Would this even be viable or is the blind/vanish cool down and 1 point HS better?

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZ0tEzbVt000oZxrfohhRox

Hard to get/keep riposte and still get all the abilities we need. nerves of steel, etc. :(

Thanks,
Zh

[Qor]

anyone consider 37/24?

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhfV0rVt0MMRbxrfoMhRo

I will probably start s3 with this build.

Btw, I wouldn't recommend any spec with combat potency, unless you take 5/5. Energy ticks need to be 5-base for them to be useful (aka +15 energy, +20 energy, etc..)

So... that build I linked before kinda sucks. Alot of tough choices to make if you want to play hemo.

Anyone sticking with combat maces? Although its boring...can it not still compete as a top build?