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Divini
10-31-2007, 04:07 AM
Geralt from the WoW EU Forums constructed a very thorough post on all the best weapon choices for the upcoming patch. The evidence shown is conducted by hard testing, and the repliers seem in general consensus with his findings.

Source: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=1371487155&sid=1&pageNo=1



* 0. What will be THE PvP weapon in 2.3? Look! | 23/10/2007 10:45:39 UTC

Well, my fellow warriors, since my current work comes in „waves”, thus leaving plenty of spare time at my disposal, out of pure boredom and curiosity, I decided to analyze the best weapons for our WoW class in terms of PvP efficiency.

There has always been a lot of controversy and confusion regarding this matter. Crit ratings, agility, AP, strength, procs, stuns, different speeds, armor penetration, haste… All of these factors make it pretty challenging to seriously compare weapons. However, I made this effort. I compared their stats, based on the following assumptions:

- warrior is a top-end arena player, has full Vengeful/Vindicator’s gear, and with Deep Thunder (which was my basis for comparison), 12,404 HP and 1,772 AP;
- normalized attacks (MS, WW, OP) happen as often as non-normalized ones like white hits (roughly correct);
- armor penetration calculated based on frequency of opponents (cloth, leather most frequent, then mail and finally plate), with appropriate mitigation reductions applied;
- crit dmg mitigated by 15% due to 300 resilience;
- mace stun proc incorporated based on PTR tests; a 3 sec stun allows 1 extra attack (quite conservative IMO);
- resilience mitgates around 30% of enemy attacks (30% crit chance assumed);
- only “warrior weapons” included in the comparison (no paladin maces, polearms, etc.) – basically, we’re talking about maces, axes and swords with warrior-relevant stats;
- all procs were incorporated based on ingame mechanics and empiric tests;
- cutoff point was Deep Thunder in terms of average damage – even if e.g. Thunder may beat some of the listed weapons, it was too low DPS/avg dmg to make it onto this list. The S1 Gladiator’s weapons didn’t make it, either.

*DISCLAIMER*
Since the attempt to compare weapons "apples to apples" was made based on several assumptions (some of them certainly being objectionable), and PTR tests may not be a representative/final sample for the live 2.3 mace stun proc frequency, I hereby cannot claim any responsibility for possible wrong decisions based on the following preliminary recommendations and ratings.

:)

Very interesting results – the following rankings emerge when we compare the top weapons based on:

- damage output potential:

1. Torch of the Damned – 104.54
2. Stormherald – 103.9
3. Vengeful Gladiator’s Bonegrinder – 103.44
4. World Breaker – 100.96
5. Deep Thunder – 100
6. Cataclysm’s Edge – 99.82
7. Soul Cleaver – 99.81
8. Vengeful Gladiator’s Greatsword – 99.5
9. Merciless Gladiator’s Bonegrinder – 99.45
10. Vengeful Gladiator’s Decapitator – 98.81
11. Jin’rokh, The Great Apocalypse – 98.74
12. Twinblade of the Phoenix – 98.1
13. Bloodmoon – 97.21
14. Lionheart Executioner – 96.35
15. Merciless Gladiator’s Greatsword – 95.63
16. Merciless Gladiator’s Decapitator – 94.97

- damage output potential and survivability boost (equally weighted):

1. Vengeful Gladiator’s Bonegrinder – 105.34
2. Stormherald – 104.38
3. Torch of the Damned – 103.73
4. Vengeful Gladiator’s Greatsword – 101.4
5. Merciless Gladiator’s Bonegrinder – 100.79
6. Vengeful Gladiator’s Decapitator – 100.71
7. World Breaker – 100.64
8. Soul Cleaver – 100.45
9. Deep Thunder – 100
10. Cataclysm’s Edge – 99.34
11. Twinblade of the Phoenix – 98.5
12. Jin’rokh, The Great Apocalypse – 98.26
13. Merciless Gladiator’s Greatsword – 96.97
14. Merciless Gladiator’s Decapitator – 96.31
15. Bloodmoon – 92.78
16. Lionheart Executioner – 91.92

- damage output potential and survivability boost (weighted 2:1) – IMHO, the fairest PvP viability ranking, since survivability matters in the arena but warriors are supposed to keep the MS debuff on targets and deal as much damage as possible to kill the enemy healers/clothies first:

1. Vengeful Gladiator’s Bonegrinder – 108.78
2. Stormherald – 108.28
3. Torch of the Damned – 108.27
4. World Breaker – 101.6
5. Vengeful Gladiator’s Greatsword – 100.9
6. Soul Cleaver – 100.26
7. Merciless Gladiator’s Bonegrinder – 100.24
8. Deep Thunder – 100
9. Vengeful Gladiator’s Decapitator – 99.52
10. Cataclysm’s Edge – 99.16
11. Jin’rokh, The Great Apocalypse – 97
12. Twinblade of the Phoenix – 96.6
13. Merciless Gladiator’s Greatsword – 92.6
14. Merciless Gladiator’s Decapitator – 91.28
15. Bloodmoon – 89.99
16. Lionheart Executioner – 88.27

Conclusions:

1. Maces rule supreme. The stun, even nerfed, is still an incredible asset. Not even taking into account that more than 1 extra hit can be scored, plus casts are interrupted. The top 3 weapons in all rankings are maces.
2. Stormherald and Deep Thunder are still fantastic weapons. The T3 mace only competes with S3 mace and Torch. The rest is inferior. DT, amazingly, is on par with S2 mace, and clearly beats the other S2 weapons, along with Archimonde sword, Zul’Aman sword and T3 axe!
3. World Breaker is only inferior to S3/T3 maces and Torch. A very strong weapon, a bit underestimated IMO.
4. Cataclysm’s Edge is overrated, it may seem like a blasphemy, but it’s beaten by the “lowly” Deep Thunder in every category! It’s a sword, and way too fast for warriors to be a really great PvP weapon. PvE is a different story of course, but in arena environment, the blade is not a reason to boast.
5. T3 sword/axe and S2 axe are a pretty bad choice for everyone aiming for pure efficiency. Stormherald beats the crap out of them, S2 mace as well. If you don’t like maces because of playstyle/personal preference, craft the axe or purchase the arena sword.
6. Soul Cleaver is the best axe in the game.
7. Jin’rokh is nothing to get really excited about, if you really want that infamous Zin’rokh model recolored, go for the S3 sword, it’s much better than it's PvE-acquired counterpart.
8. If you’re saving up points for an S3 weapon, get the mace by all means. If you already have Stormherald, consider the mace but don’t even touch the other two. If you have Deep Thunder, upgrade to S3 mace, or, if you’re bored with maces and/or you love the ZG sword model, grab the S3 sword. Don’t bother with the axe, it’s not remotely worth the points.
9. Last but not least - what is THE PvP weapon in 2.3, just to answer the post title? IMO, S3 mace wins with a miniscule advantage over T3 mace and Torch. Basically, raiders with or without access to BT will use the Stormherald and spend points on armor, while people without HC raiding guilds will grab the S3 mace. Raiders with access to Torch and a "Skillherald sucks, everyone uses it" attitude will use their Torches... until they sort of become commonplace as well, since the S3 weapons got their skins changed, and the mace won't look like Morgaine's Might, after all. It will be based on the Torch of the Damned model.

As some blue poster said,

/discuss

:)

nubbey
10-31-2007, 11:43 AM
those numbers look remarkably like they were pulled out of someone's ass

Dragoth
10-31-2007, 12:21 PM
I'd rather have some additional information on this before I start complaining. However, I doubt this since everbody with a decent 5vs5-team prefers swords...

shyst
10-31-2007, 12:35 PM
those numbers look remarkably like they were pulled out of someone's ass

The guy gives a brief description about how he’s going to compare the weapons but I don’t actually see any math behind it… anyways even with the mace nerf I think it’s still the best weapon by far….especially if you are going to do any decent amount of 2s and 3s.

Kazimir
10-31-2007, 12:40 PM
Wasnt there a thread laying around here with all the math proving why swords is better by leaps and bounds.

Xcrcst
10-31-2007, 12:58 PM
In reality, I think the sword would have the greatest damage output. He did

Mace stun = 1 extra attack = 10%
Sword spec = 1 extra attack = 5%

so mace spec proced twice as much as sword = better damage output as it qualified as 1 extra attack. not accurate imo

nubbey
10-31-2007, 01:41 PM
However, I doubt this since everbody with a decent 5vs5-team prefers swords...


lolwut

tzou88
10-31-2007, 01:48 PM
nubbey knows all!

shyst
10-31-2007, 02:03 PM
i thought the most popular spec by far is mace...

Arcturas
10-31-2007, 03:21 PM
Interesting, but I'm gonna take that with a grain of salt.

Assuming 1 mace stun = 1 more melee hit, when the mace stun is 3 seconds, that's a tad off considering that the weapons used are 3.6-3.8 speed. Also, if the opponent was rooted, or, if you were able to stay on him, you wouldn't be getting an *extra hit* with mace, because you were on him anyhow.

Also, mace stuns diminish. I'd more consider the first mace stun like a .7 of an attack, then the next a .35, then the next a .175.

I'm also a big proponent of axe spec. Did you remember to factor in the avoidance in dealing with sword? If you're on a frost mage, you'll have about 4-5% chance to miss (talent), 4-5% chance to dodge, etc. That's hurting sword spec's effectiveness by ~10%

Xism
10-31-2007, 04:00 PM
there is a chance of not being to hit even when a mace stun procs. ie: mage blinks away and gets stunned 10 yards away, or mac stun procs and you eat a deathcoil/cyclone right after.

Slap
10-31-2007, 05:11 PM
I am going mace next season, but these numbers are totally bogus.

That assumption that a mace stun = an additional attack totally destroys all of his calculations. It's true that his target is "frozen" for those 3 seconds, but his partners are free to heal him (or CC you or whatever) during the time that he is stunned. This means that the mace stun did not provide any "burst" and you simply get an attack while your target has no opportunity to fight back. This "burst" is what makes sword spec strong and appealing to people, so the strength of swords is largely ignored in his calculations.

Another thing to think about is that there are many classes with stun resist/an ability to leave stun (blink) or a potential trinket. Your "additional attack" is not guaranteed by a long shot.

nubbey
10-31-2007, 06:07 PM
http://www.warriorpwns.com/axevssword/

yoyoyoyo
10-31-2007, 06:18 PM
hey guyz i made this im,porant chart of how to view warrior weaponz

-Damage Matrix Calculation Potential:

57.44 Lionface Blade
120.23 sStormherald
103.322 World Breaker
99.3 Merciless Gladiator's Staff
159.33 Vengeful Gladiator's Bonegroper
123.00004 Torch of the Damned


CONCLUSINS
as yo c from these totally important numbers gladiator weapon iz the best need i say more? u might haf thought torch of the damned wuz good but look at these numbers man how r u gonna argue with that its math. it migt look like a bigger number but those r just zeroes it dosnt make it bigger

nubbey
10-31-2007, 10:41 PM
basically

Tyreke
11-01-2007, 01:32 AM
Idk I've never heard good things about the merc mace but it seems for some reason the s3 is really good, going just by these numbers, I still think that Stormherald is sufficient enough for maces, so I'll probably just get the sword anyway for 5s.
Imo no weapon proc on the merc mace really hurts it when compared to SH.