S3 Meta Gems

[schnarfy]

With the upcoming changes to mystical skyfire, what meta are you planning on using for season 3?

I'm probably going to switch to insightful earthstorm or destructive skyfire once I get S3 helm. What made mystical skyfire good in my view was the chance to get a proc when it would really make a difference. With the hidden cooldown added I think that the other gems provide more benefits.

[Duraeas]

I'm not entirely sure. I think we benefited from Mystical Skyfire more than any class in the game, being the one healer which has no viable instant cast heals/damage mitigation (aside from BoP). I don't think the nerf is warranted at all.

I'm skeptical whether or not either of the gems you mentioned will end up being better. Insightful Earthstorm Diamond is an approximately 2% procc rate, so I wouldn't bother with it it over Mystical Skyfire. Destructive Skyfire seems underwhelming for the procc rate, and 5 Red Gems is definitely not my preferred requirements.

I'm going to try Mystical Skyfire to start the season. It's not as good, but I think it's still better than the other options. What bothers me is they nerfed the duration of the buff back down to basically what it was before. Now, you not only lose the chance to get a much needed procc if it already went off, but you can't wait 7 seconds or so until you actually need the quick cast.

I'm tempted to try to start a movement to have the gem restored to at least a 10 second duration with current PTR changes, or it's previous form with a 4 second buff.

[Khazm]

Pretty sure I'm sticking with the MSD. If it's really bad I'll use Insightful Earthstorm Diamond, but Destructive Skyfire is garbage.

[Naive]

I have to disagree with people that say that MSD is the best gem for paladins. I've always gone with IED over MSD. The gem requirements are easy and getting 300 mana back for almost anything you do (mount, change auras, etc.) is just insanely overpowered in 2s and 3s. Especially in 2s when you're getting mana drained, I've found myself being able to easily live with rank 1 FoL and IED's procs. I know it's a low proc rate of about 2%, but until you've tried it out and see how much it actually feels like it procs then you won't go back to anything out. And those back-to-back procs granting 600 mana are to die for.

[Phiers]

I have to disagree with people that say that MSD is the best gem for paladins. I've always gone with IED over MSD. The gem requirements are easy and getting 300 mana back for almost anything you do (mount, change auras, etc.) is just insanely overpowered in 2s and 3s. Especially in 2s when you're getting mana drained, I've found myself being able to easily live with rank 1 FoL and IED's procs. I know it's a low proc rate of about 2%, but until you've tried it out and see how much it actually feels like it procs then you won't go back to anything out. And those back-to-back procs granting 600 mana are to die for.

2% chance for 300 mana. IF you cast 30 times in a minute, which is more than you'll be able to do in an arena, it's 7.5mp5.

[Naive]

2% chance for 300 mana. IF you cast 30 times in a minute, which is more than you'll be able to do in an arena, it's 7.5mp5.

My GCD in 2s is never up. So I don't know the exact number, but I cast the maximum amount of casts possible per minute. And 7.5mp5 is better than a chance to cast 1/2 time when you're in the top bracket playing mostly mirrors teams and rogue/priest teams (i.e. teams that mana drain). I'd much rather have the mp5 to be able to keep spamming rank 1 FoL on my teammate or myself. I play with a warlock, so Fel Armor + BoL + rank 1 FoL is like 900 heals.

[Phiers]

The max casts possible is 40 in a minute. Without the use of stop casting macros, it's about 35.

For you to correctly use *every* GCD, you'd have to never move, never have anyone go out of LoS, or have debuffs to cleanse 100% of the time, as well as never get CCed yourself. 30 was an over-approximation for the sake of arguement. Just because you *feel* like you're always doing something doesn't mean you literally use every single GCD, and to say so is stupid.

Drinking for 2 seconds every minute is equivalent to 40mp5. Or, comparing it to your meta gem, drinking for 2 extra seconds out of every 5 mins 20 seconds is equal to your meta gem. Any fight that you actually get the chance to drink effectively makes your meta gem useless by comparison, while having a reduced cast time on a spell can let you get off a huge HL or fake heal a lot easier.

[Naive]

Just because you *feel* like you're always doing something doesn't mean you literally use every single GCD, and to say so is stupid.

Not exactly. Whenever I play any kind of mirror team, I'm constantly either dispelling myself or my partner and/or healing. There never is a time when I'm not dispelling or healing. You can dispel on the run, so whenever I'm moving (pillar kiting, etc.), I'm dispelling and whenever I'm standing still, well, I'm healing. I don't think it's stupid at all to say that I'm using my GCD all the time, because I am (or at least 95% of the time).

I can see MSD to be good in lower brackets (against mages and shadow priests), but having just hit 2430 yesterday, the only teams I face are mirror teams and/or warrior/druid. For warrior/druid, I could care less about about having a faster cast time and against mirror teams, I'm constantly being pressured and rarely can drink unless we kill the pet. Getting 300 mana is much more important. But, that's my playstyle, it might be different for you or others.

[Aldain]

2% chance for 300 mana. IF you cast 30 times in a minute, which is more than you'll be able to do in an arena, it's 7.5mp5.

30 * 2% = 60% chance per minute.
300 mana * 60% = 180 mana per minute.
180 mana per minute = 15 mp5.

[Naive]

30 * 2% = 60% chance per minute.
300 mana * 60% = 180 mana per minute.
180 mana per minute = 15 mp5.

Yeah, that sounds more like it and 15 mp5 > chance to cast faster, in my opinion.

[Phiers]

For you to correctly use *every* GCD, you'd have to never move, never have anyone go out of LoS, or have debuffs to cleanse 100% of the time, as well as never get CCed yourself. 30 was an over-approximation for the sake of arguement.

My math was obviously bad.com, but what I said here stands. I'd be surprised if anyone uses more than 20-25 casts per minute on average. Again, because you ignored it the first time, you'd have to never be CSed or CCed, never pummeled or kicked, never use any cast longer than 1.5 seconds, and never have any type of slow on your attacks (tongues for example). That's not going to ever happen.

[Saffira]

The 300 mana back gem rocks. When you are low on mana it seems to always proc imo. Say u have 200 mana, gem procs, u have 500, divine illumination comes up with divine favor, thats a lot of healing with the chance of crits and more meta gem procs. I would never change it for anything in the smaller arenas (2v2 and 3v3).

5v5 however I think the spell haste is better because 4 dps teams are dumb. >.<

[Injunfeller]

MSD beats every other meta out there by leaps and bounds. IED can be overcome by simply drinking. MSD however is a game breaker and game breaker > a little more mana that can be simply substituted with drinking. That is of course assuming that it's even an endurance battle between the healers...

To compare MSD in it's current state to any other caster meta is simply ignorant. Nothing compares...the gem flat out GODLY...Which is exactly why it's getting nerfed. It's going to seriously suck when it is nerfed...I am most likely going to end up with IED or DSD. Regardless, nothing will ever be the same as far as meta's are concerned and it's a damn shame it's getting nerfed.

[Keline]

30 * 2% = 60% chance per minute.
300 mana * 60% = 180 mana per minute.
180 mana per minute = 15 mp5.

That's just plain bad math there.

[Mysar]

The 300 mana back gem rocks. When you are low on mana it seems to always proc imo. Say u have 200 mana, gem procs, u have 500, divine illumination comes up with divine favor, thats a lot of healing with the chance of crits and more meta gem procs. I would never change it for anything in the smaller arenas (2v2 and 3v3).



yeah, i really want to test this gem with the new s3 head, in 2v2 it should be really strong. can it still procc off of every cast? (buffing,first aid ?)

[Kylana]

I am considering IED for S3 due to the nerf and the teams I have been running into in 2v2 lately. - specifically, warrior + partial pve geared paladins with massive mana regen. For example, I know one pve paladin that is sitting at 132 regen in combat without BOW. In comparison, I am sitting at 29 mana/5 without BOW. My mana cannot outlast pve geared paladins in these mirror matches and we generally lose. I am working to increase my mana efficiency by downranking and other strategies so maybe we can improve on this issue before S3 hits.

If, after 2.3, MSD remains the best for 5v5, I may use MSD in my S3 helm but put IED in my S2 helm and use that for the time being in 2v2 to see how it goes.

I have also been running with +81 healing on my weapon. I am considering spellsurge. But, a typical pve geared pally will be running 2100-2200 healing whereas I am at 1650. I am not sure I can take that healing hit.

[hoedog]

Now that 2.3 has been out for a couple weeks, has anyone done any testing as to which meta is now better for Holy Pally in 5s. I'm currently using the MSD and picked up the s3 helm today. So now I'm deciding whether to go back with the MSD or IED in the new helm. Any input?

[Rakeash]

MSD is pretty much a guarenteed proc about every 45 seconds (hidden cooldown)... I have it go off alllll the freaking time when I'm buffing myself in the starting area in 2v2 when I only have 4 spells to cast (2 blessings, RF, conc).

If you buff early on, it will be cooled down by the time the match starts and usually you'll have a focus proc early, which is handy in 4 or 5 dps 5v5 matches.

MSD can really be a game winner and yeah, drinking gives you all the benefits of the IED so MSD is a pretty safe bet, but on the PTR before, I was getting tons of IED procs when compared to the MSD so for now, I'm going with IED and hopefully the Scarab of the Infinite Cycle (damn thing never drops) for a while and see how much I miss the MSD.

[hoedog]

That is what I've been seeing for the past couple weeks, it would always proc in the prematch time while buffing. Thats what was making me doubt it, because if I needed it for a focus target then it would still be on the 45 sec hidden timer.

Plus we run alot of 4 dps, in a 4 dps setup as the only healer when do you have time to drink? unless 2 or 3 people on the other team are dead, someone is always needing healing or dispelling. Or I have a pet on me and can't get out of combat unless we're in BEM. Even then you take a big chance by jumping under the bridge and not being able to get back to your team in time. Unless there is something I'm doing wrong?

[Rakeash]

Oh... then hell. Go for the MSD metagem.

[Arias]

I run IED (of course, I use my t5 helm soooooooooo). MSD with the nerf just doesn't seem reliable enough, kinda like the new 4pc t5 bonus. It may proc at a great time, or it may proc at a terrible time when it's just wasted, whereas IED procs are never useless unless you're at full mana.

Yeah, it might be nullified by drinking, but I don't ever see a lot of opportunities to drink, even in 5s, unless the match is pretty much already over. If the opposing team is letting me drink it means they fucked up and are probably pretty bad. Whereas an MSD proc might be nullified by being CC'd during the proc.

[Neb]

I switch between the arena helm and my engineering helm. I throw MSD in my engineering helm since I wear it primarily for 5's and with our setup getting back 300 mana wouldn't be nearly as beneficial as getting a HL off in 1 sec. I usually put 18 stam 5% stun resist in my arena helm but I think this year I'll be going with IED. I'm sure if I looked back at the times we lost there were more because of me being low on mana than there are because I was stunned at a wrong time (excpet maybe 2's; fuck mace warriors).

I agree with Arias that if you are allowed to drink it's either one of three things; either you're bad and are drinking while the other team doesn't care cause they just dropped your warrior, they're bad for letting you drink while no one is in danger, or the match has already been decided but you drink for safety reasons. For the record I'm not talking drinking for 1 or 2 sec, I'm talking actually drinking because you need the mana.

[hoedog]

I run IED (of course, I use my t5 helm soooooooooo). MSD with the nerf just doesn't seem reliable enough, kinda like the new 4pc t5 bonus. It may proc at a great time, or it may proc at a terrible time when it's just wasted, whereas IED procs are never useless unless you're at full mana.

Yeah, it might be nullified by drinking, but I don't ever see a lot of opportunities to drink, even in 5s, unless the match is pretty much already over. If the opposing team is letting me drink it means they fucked up and are probably pretty bad. Whereas an MSD proc might be nullified by being CC'd during the proc.
That is some very valid points, I know there has been many times where the MSD has proc'd at completely useless times and has gone to waste. Thats even more painful now with the 45 sec hidden cool down.

I think I'm really leaning toward the IED

[Jynx]

This has been said previously, but I felt I could reiterate the point.

I focus mainly on 5v5 and the deciding factor for me was that the MSD can proc and it does proc a lot during times when I absolutely don't need it. I really can't think of any time when I don't want 300 mana.

The other thing thing that pushed me toward IED was that a lot of matches in 2v and 3v lately have come down to spam dispelling (damn locks/hunters) and keeping my mana up against steady dmg.

As far as the "well you can drink and accomplish the same thing as IED" arguement.... what teams have you been playing? This is an all gladiator forum right? Sure you can get 1-2 ticks off here or there, but if you're team is pressuring the other team enough for you to drink 4+ ticks then I don't think either gem would matter in that match. Most of the matches that the IED will matter the most I have something keeping me in combat.

[Vilu]

MSD is great if we'd have some offensive cast time abilities (soulfire,mindcontrol,manaburn come to mind) that you could use every time you get a focus proc. But since supports' job is mainly reactive type, those procs end up going to waste a lot of the time.

Mana is mana on the other hand, you never have too much of it and you always run out of it.

[Vigaut]

I was a champion for MSD for a long time. Since the nerf, it doesn't seem all that great so i switched to IED, and not looking back. It isn't as flashy as half cast, but that 300 mana adds up. Think of it as more crit in terms of mana regen.

[Rakeash]

Yeah, picked up my season 3 helm back on Tuesday and put an IED metagem in there to test it out and.... I'm not going back to MSD.

More mana is useful in every situation (unlike MSD) and you can get a *lot* of procs in a game. I think the only time now where I would use an MSD is if I were on a 4dps 5v5.

[Xanzibar]

I switch between the arena helm and my engineering helm. I throw MSD in my engineering helm since I wear it primarily for 5's and with our setup getting back 300 mana wouldn't be nearly as beneficial as getting a HL off in 1 sec. I usually put 18 stam 5% stun resist in my arena helm but I think this year I'll be going with IED.
My thoughts were exactly the same about this. I'm using engineering head for 5s and vengeful headpiece for 2s. With rogues now chasing you like crazy, the additional stunresist from talents and metagem really adds up.

For 5s, Mystical gem just seems to be the better choice (imo at least), since bursting out heals at an early stage of the match is usually more important than the manapool/regen.

[Ryo]

Since the nerf to MSD, I've switched it out for PED.(18 sta + 5% stun resist) I don't find opportunities to drink hard to get as my team is usually doing a wonderful job kiting / avoid damage. During these long kitefest(since I run war/pal/priest) there is a great deal of time I'm not casting, and either drinking, or moving into a better position(time when I wont be getting mana back from the meta)

But when I need to be healing I need to be as reliable as possible(5% resist to bash, mace spec, Skillherald proc, intercept, charge, rogue stuns, blackout, and even more mace spec procs is far more valuable . . . at least to me).

[Kawklee]

I run PED as well. Stoicism+PED adds up.

[Nynaeve]

Still MSD here. It might be that I'm just lucky, but it's proc is never wasted for me, and seems to happen at delicious times, like triggering off BoP.