Curious about a 4dps spec

[Wurmkrank]

Since we lost our holy priest on our 5v5 we have hit quite the rough spot, we replaced him with a resto druid but due to his inexperience in 5v5 it's not working out too well.

This week we are going to try a 4 dps setup with War/pal/ele sham/ua lock/spriest. With the upcoming talent changes I've been trying to come up with a solid build that will work well with this setup. my biggest concern is my survivability with only a paladin as the main healer. I plan on using defensive gems/enchants on my gear to boost my hp/resilience, so i will run at about 12,800 unbuffed hp. Since I will take a hit in the offensive department, I will probably spec for endless rage to make sure i can put out decent damage and keep my rage generation high to keep that MS up on high armor targets.

The build I've been considering is 45/5/11, I figure this will be the best build to use because last stand combine with the new 1750hp clicky trinket will give me enough survivability to live through high DPS if my paladin gets CCd at a bad time.

If there's any advice anyone can share about running this kind of setup, or if you have any thoughts on a talent build, please share.

[Meets]

His inexperience? Doubtful. A 5v5 team needs to cater to a druid not the other way around. Just as a 5s team would need to cater to a rogue you guys need to protect him properly

[Wurmkrank]

I would call constantly LOSing the paladin, switching to caster form to heal himself while he has two warriors attacking him, not calling shit out in vent... inexperience

[Olaf]

I would call constantly LOSing the paladin, switching to caster form to heal himself while he has two warriors attacking him, not calling shit out in vent... inexperience

Actually, all of that falls into the "you didnt protect your teammate" category and that you guys just need to learn to play with a druid.

[Wurmkrank]

please enlighten me, what can we be doing differently that we weren't already doing for a holy priest.

[Ebonics]

Actually, all of that falls into the "you didnt protect your teammate" category and that you guys just need to learn to play with a druid.

actually they dont all fall into that "category". his druid sucks get over it dont try to defend the druid who you have never even seen play. probably the biggest problem is not calling shit out on vent which is a lack of communication and communication in 5s in #1 to winning imo.

[nubbey]

His inexperience? Doubtful. A 5v5 team needs to cater to a druid not the other way around. Just as a 5s team would need to cater to a rogue you guys need to protect him properly

I would say that he has a better idea of the skill level of his druid than you do.

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anyway, i don't thing gemming defensively is the answer. 4dps is about applying so much offensive pressure that the enemy can't really attack back without getting gibbed (i.e. forcing warriors in defensive stance, preventing spellcasts, etc)

the one thing your paladin really needs to understand is that it's fucking importand that he bubbles BEFORE he gets cc'd....but in the same regard, if you can't kill something before his ability to keep the team up runs out, you're somewhat fucked. the ele shaman can always backup heal, i guess...but if he needs to heal, you probably already lost

[Wurmkrank]

what kind of targets should i be focusing on? I want to make sure that the enemy MS is out of the equation so blowing up the other warrior is obviously a good plan, but what about CoT? should we worry about warlocks even more so?

I also re-worked my gear and I'm at 386 resilience and 13,400 hp unbuffed, yet my hits are only about 5-6% less than what they were with a full dps outfit, the extra 2k hp has worked out far better than the extra 60 damage (before armor) per swing

[nubbey]

warrior is of course a good target, as is elemental shaman, priest, etc. basically, if it's killable, and going on it prevents it from accomplishing its goals, it's a good target.

[JarL]

What is the big hype about 45/5/11, drop 3 points from 2h spec and get the new defiance. 6 weapon expertise will greatly enhance your dps as it will function the same way +hit does, it just lowers your targets chance to dodge/parry instead of your chance to miss. Nothing is more frustrating than a clothy dodging a MS.

[Wurmkrank]

What is the big hype about 45/5/11, drop 3 points from 2h spec and get the new defiance. 6 weapon expertise will greatly enhance your dps as it will function the same way +hit does, it just lowers your targets chance to dodge/parry instead of your chance to miss. Nothing is more frustrating than a clothy dodging a MS.

3 points from 2h spec is like dropping 140ap, and the defiance bonus only works in defensive stance.

[JarL]

It shouldn't, the talent adds 2/4/6 expertise rating and I find it very hard to believe that 3% = 140ap. Even if it does 3% dmg is very minimal. That would mean that 3% dmg = 10 dps. Either way I don't feel that you can mathematically compare % dmg to AP.

[Wurmkrank]

It shouldn't, the talent adds 2/4/6 expertise rating and I find it very hard to believe that 3% = 140ap. Even if it does 3% dmg is very minimal. That would mean that 3% dmg = 10 dps. Either way I don't feel that you can mathematically compare % dmg to AP.

I wouldn't be so quick to underestimate 2-h spec. It is very easy to compare % damage to AP, next time you respec, look at your damage range in the character sheet and watch how much your damage goes up with each point, then calculate how much AP you would need for that same amount of damage. 14ap=3.8 damage for you, because of your weapon speed.

if you want an example, compare our armories.

I will log out with my deep thunder on so you can compare easily, I have 1424 attack power and you have 1514 attack power, a difference of 90ap, but if you notice, our damage ranges are almost exactly the same, mine being slightly higher, so we can say that the 3 extra points I have in 2h spec is an additional 100ap.

It's not as much as I had originally stated, because i pulled that number out of my ass, but if you were to look at the rest of my gear you will notice that I have 13700 hp, because I have 5/5 2h-spec I hit just as hard as a warrior who gems and enchants for attack power with 2/5 2h spec, but I have 2200 more hp.

also...

if you have been on the ptr you would know that the defiance expertise bonus only works in defensive stance, they intend it to be a tanking stat.

[Smerk]

I'm in a #1 4 dps team with the same comp you plan on running and I just roll with the normal cookie cutter spec, 33/25/3. It's very very rare that they go onto me, and if they do I put a fresh MS up and intervene my paladin, popping shield reflect liberally.

[JarL]

I wouldn't be so quick to underestimate 2-h spec. It is very easy to compare % damage to AP, next time you respec, look at your damage range in the character sheet and watch how much your damage goes up with each point, then calculate how much AP you would need for that same amount of damage. 14ap=3.8 damage for you, because of your weapon speed.

if you want an example, compare our armories.

I will log out with my deep thunder on so you can compare easily, I have 1424 attack power and you have 1514 attack power, a difference of 90ap, but if you notice, our damage ranges are almost exactly the same, mine being slightly higher, so we can say that the 3 extra points I have in 2h spec is an additional 100ap.

It's not as much as I had originally stated, because i pulled that number out of my ass, but if you were to look at the rest of my gear you will notice that I have 13700 hp, because I have 5/5 2h-spec I hit just as hard as a warrior who gems and enchants for attack power with 2/5 2h spec, but I have 2200 more hp.

also...

if you have been on the ptr you would know that the defiance expertise bonus only works in defensive stance, they intend it to be a tanking stat.

You have 1300 more HP not 2200 and 3% less crit. And the debate isn't 2/5 vs. 5/5, it is 5/5 vs. 3/3 defiance (assuming that it does work in all stances). Your comparison of our dmg actually supports my point. Our damage is virtually the same! Why wouldn't you take the new defiance (that is a lot of reduced enemy avoidance) if it works in all stances and according to the wording it would. I haven't been on the PTR and I don't plan to, but I'll wait for it to go live to before assuming that it won't be applicable in all stances.

[nubbey]

i don't really think defiance will be better than 3% damage increase