Blizzard gave Mutilate rogues 1.8 OH for S3

[brron]

Vengful Gladiator Mutilator

http://www.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2007/october/s3/rogue-vestments.jpg

Do you think this will end the shiv vs shanker debate or will majority of rogues stay with shiv?

[Teirisias]

I think a lot will stick with shiv for the lower energy shivs... even though I'm not mutilate, I use shiv almost as much as I use sinister strike, it's just an amazing ability.

Looking at your link though, the hit on the legs, helm, and chest is really nice and has me pretty excited. I'll finally stop missing specials against frost mages! Personally, I'd love to see all the crit converted to hit, but that's just a pipe dream.

What's really exciting is all the armor penetration this season. Maybe next season we can get some haste (anything's possible!).

Oh, and here's the link to the mutilator... you linked to the rogue armor instead: http://www.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2007/october/s3/mutilator.jpg

[JayRath]

I think I am going to use my S2 Shiv and have the S3 Shiv with a weapon chain on it alternate between them. You would benefit more using the S2 shiv on anytime you have to fight teams where your getting kited/chasing druids etc. The S3 shiv with weapon chain will be nice against warriors/rogues with riposte/And unfortunately hunters. That's just my opinion on things right now I'm sure it will change.

-Jay

[brron]

I think a lot will stick with shiv for the lower energy shivs... even though I'm not mutilate, I use shiv almost as much as I use sinister strike, it's just an amazing ability.

Looking at your link though, the hit on the legs, helm, and chest is really nice and has me pretty excited. I'll finally stop missing specials against frost mages! Personally, I'd love to see all the crit converted to hit, but that's just a pipe dream.

What's really exciting is all the armor penetration this season. Maybe next season we can get some haste (anything's possible!).

Oh, and here's the link to the mutilator... you linked to the rogue armor instead: http://www.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2007/october/s3/mutilator.jpg


oh whoops, i dunno how that happened. but thanks for relinking.

[Xasha]

Seems to me that the Shiv is better for longer matches, such as 5s where you're likely to be using Shiv a lot. Mutilator would be good for short matches... I dunno, maybe 2x-DPS team in 2s, and games that you know will be decided quickly in 3s?

I dunno, I'm having a tough time thinking of a situation where you know for sure you're not going to have to Shiv a lot and could thus use the Mutilator.

[Hershram]

Personally I don't find myself Shiving much if at all. I only have 2 points in Improved Poisons and 34% chance to apply poisons to your target. I find between White Damage and Mute I rarely have to Shiv, and it seems by taking the Mutilator I will be using Shiv at a higher energy cost.

In comparison, I'm sure the Mutilator will hit harder on Mutilate, but you will lose pushback, cheaper Shiv's, and an increased need to use Shiv.

In nearly every bracket I find that if a player doesn't trinket my stun, and does not get cleansed, I can stack a full set of 5 Wound Mutilating and landing white hits before they leave a CS~>4/5 point KS.

[Hershram]

Personally I think the real discussion should be the armor value on gear and the loss of agility.

I think its a good idea; I have thought about it for a bit and welcome the idea. Resilience mitigates quite a bit of damage taken in Melee, but I still find myself getting hit for nearly or over 2k by a well geared character. This is with 400 Resilience, mainly speaking of Warriors and Rogues of course.

/discuss?

[Xasha]

In nearly every bracket I find that if a player doesn't trinket my stun, and does not get cleansed, I can stack a full set of 5 Wound Mutilating and landing white hits before they leave a CS~>4/5 poing KS.

Try playing a decent Druid or Shaman. Druids in the 2200+ range abuse Abolish Poison so much it's not even funny. In certain situations I dual-wield weapons with Wound on them and even then I'm lucky to have more than 2 stacks of Wound on a target if they have a good Druid.

[Hershram]

I have come across situations like this multiple times and it is a pain, these situations are some of the few times I use Shiv. For the most part my Druid partner CCs a player for quite a while allowing me to get a couple up though, so it's not the biggest problem, and at this point I can for the most part stack as fast as they can cleanse and heal simultaneously.

[buena]

I'm usually using shiv when I first get on a target or when it has gotten away from me or I have gotten CCed and I just catch up. In either cast I'd have plenty of energy to shiv with any speed weapon. It's a little wasteful of energy maybe, but isn't mutilating with a 1.4 also wasteful?

[Ilyria]

Try playing a decent Druid or Shaman. Druids in the 2200+ range abuse Abolish Poison so much it's not even funny. In certain situations I dual-wield weapons with Wound on them and even then I'm lucky to have more than 2 stacks of Wound on a target if they have a good Druid.

In 2v2, I MH wound OH crip with 5/5 vile and 1/2 master psner, and I don't have a problem sustaining a stack of 5 against a druid team as long as I don't get kited. The problem lies in getting 5 up there in the first place :/

And it's about time they added a cheaper Mut offhand.

[Fallen]

What's the point in making an offhand for mutilate rogues, when we can just go would double shanker ?

Did blizzard think they where smart or ?

[Hershram]

I'm usually using shiv when I first get on a target or when it has gotten away from me or I have gotten CCed and I just catch up. In either cast I'd have plenty of energy to shiv with any speed weapon. It's a little wasteful of energy maybe, but isn't mutilating with a 1.4 also wasteful?

I find my OH doesn't hit too far off from my MH considering the .4 speed difference. Sometimes there's a huge gap in the two hits, but for the most part they are within 2-300 of each other and I find the benefit of pushback from the OH useful in most situations.

What's the point in making an offhand for mutilate rogues, when we can just go would double shanker ?

Did blizzard think they where smart or ?

I think this is for people who don't accumulate very many points each week; where as say you or me earn 1k a week some players may not even receive 400.

[Fallen]

ah, didn't know it was a difference in price :>

Well, good thing for the gimps :D

[brron]

ah, didn't know it was a difference in price :>

Well, good thing for the gimps :D

I want to point out for fallen that Mutilator has a higher dmg range than Shanker does. For that reason, Mutilator will be a better offhand than any shanker/shanker combo (even if it costs shanker price).

I believe that bigger range is to offput the 75% dmg on offhand.
Shiv will be nice if you want to switch between 30/0/31 and 41/20, but mutilator will be there for hardcore 41/20s

But Mutilator dmg will be nothing to scoff at...even if it is high shiv cost.

[Xasha]

Which is better, 10-20 or 14-16? Mutilator is not "better" than Shanker. G'day.

[brron]

Which is better, 10-20 or 14-16? Mutilator is not "better" than Shanker. G'day.

can you then explain (on ur behalf) the purpose of having a bigger dmg range on a mutilator? are you then saying a bigger dmg range will gimp mutilator?

[Xasha]

can you then explain (on ur behalf) the purpose of having a bigger dmg range on a mutilator? are you then saying a bigger dmg range will gimp mutilator?

There isn't any difference. The range is wider, which means it's both possible to hit for higher max, and lower min. The average on Mutilator is the same as Shanker.

It's smarter to get Mutilator than Shanker, because Mutilator costs a fraction of the arena points, but it's not going to be higher DPS.

Personally, I'm still inclined to take the Shiv since smart Rogues use Shiv extensively (when fighting a Rogue who pops Evasion or Ghostly Strike, when trying to stack your OH poison very quickly, when disarmed, etc).