Retribution, in 2.3 and season 3.

[Krona]

Currently there are a few things I feel that are holding myself back in my most important team, 3v3. I play with a Mortal Strike/Death Wish/Tactical Mastery war, and a resto shaman.

Purgeable seals, having my damage being dispel able before it is even played is unbelievably horrid. It is not just purge, or dispel. Its also the felhound's devour magic. At any random time my seal will go off and I may be swinging a shot that I need to hit hard, but it won't even have a chance if the seal was just dispelled. 2.3 will fix this.

Resilience, I find myself a main target against double healer teams with a warrior, or physical damage oriented teams. These teams use my lack of resilience against me. Against a long running battle vs. 2 healers, the fact that I am more crittable than anyone else roaming around makes me by far the best target. There is no question, a ret paladin is a great target to burn a healers mana. Ret paladins do not blink, do not run, they take the hits and cost the healer a lot of mana.

Against physical damage oriented teams my lower crit avoidance is a HUGE plus for me to be targeted. Because we all know crit affects physical classes mostly. I say mostly because RIP, destruction locks. Season 3 will have resilience, and this will not be an issue anymore, though honestly, it never should have been.

The next 2 major changes in 2.3 are pursuit of justice and 30 second vengeance. I found the 15% speed bonus when combined with judgment of justice to be more than ample to deal with kiting mages and locks. The only classes that can kite us, and should not be able to.

With 30 seconds on vengeance duration, it simply did not run off from the minor BG/world pvp tests I did on the PTR. This change helped a lot in both pve and pvp. You can now, hide behind a pillar :P, toss a heal, whatever, and still keep the buff running.

Longer/more constant vengeance coupled with undispelable seals will make us a disaster compared to now for purge/spell steal spam. Honestly I wouldn’t be one to complain with what 2.3 has brought retribution.

I think the future holds a much easier life for us in the arena.

[Xios]

ret pallies lack the ability to do anything when their mana is gone. Instead of being the frontal force of an attack a few mana burns/drains will take care of you. Unless you are on some weird gib team ret pallies will still be just as useless.

[Baconn]

You don't need an incredible amount of mana to put out significant damage. Whenever a fight starts to drag, I throw wisdom on myself and my shaman, and downrank Seal of Command. SoC is only 55 mana at rank 1, and I usually time my Crusader strikes along side SoC procs to put out the most burst I can.

The changes next patch will definitely make Ret paladins a lot more viable, giving us staying power against anything attacking us, and with 6 sec CD on Crusader strike and 30 second vengeance, we'll put out a lot more damage as well.

[Kags]

ret pallies lack the ability to do anything when their mana is gone. Instead of being the frontal force of an attack a few mana burns/drains will take care of you. Unless you are on some weird gib team ret pallies will still be just as useless.

If a priest is sitting and manaburning the paladin in a 3v3, chances are hes about to get assraped first.

[Amplified]

I was a hater until I went on the PTR and saw the sick burst this class does. My money says gib teams are going to be paying pallies to join up, especially with that +3% crit.

[Phiers]

With a shaman, a well timed mana tide fixes most of the mana sensitive issues. Gaining 200+ resilience is going to be huge as well. Running faster is obviously going to help a melee class, as will increased damage.

I don't see a 2000 team hitting 2400 with everything being relatively close to the same other than the ret pally changes, but there's going to be an opportunity significant upward mobility. Basically going to be the same as it is now, only your weakest char is less succeptible to damage, and does more damage. Win/win.

[Kags]

I don't see a 2000 team hitting 2400 with everything being relatively close to the same other than the ret pally changes, but there's going to be an opportunity significant upward mobility. Basically going to be the same as it is now, only your weakest char is less succeptible to damage, and does more damage. Win/win.

I can see my 2v2 hitting 2200 from 2k right now. Seriously, a 7% speed increase and about a 10-15% damage increase combined with resilience. GG

[Ultramagnus]

With undispellable seals, along with the changes to the s3 gear and resilience. I think us retadins will really be able to live up to our potential in the next season. Very excited about it. :) My 3v3 team is the same as the op's.

[Foredoomed]

ret pallies lack the ability to do anything when their mana is gone.

Wrong, it's vice versa. The retribution paladin is one of the few DDs who actually can put out some dmg though their mana is gone. Rank 1 SoC + Auto Attack (+ WF) while Mages, elemental Shamans, SPriests etc. need to drink.

@Topic: I am really looking forward to 2.3, Retribution will definitely be a viable talent tree for arenas.

[Keline]

I'm pretty sure Ret paladins will continue being useless. They don't have MS, so that means you can't replace your warrior with them, so you need two melee dps.
They don't have the CC that you'd expect from a DPS class that doesn't have MS either.
It's pretty simple, what will Ret offer over a shadow priest?

[Ultramagnus]

I'm pretty sure Ret paladins will continue being useless. They don't have MS, so that means you can't replace your warrior with them, so you need two melee dps.
They don't have the CC that you'd expect from a DPS class that doesn't have MS either.
It's pretty simple, what will Ret offer over a shadow priest?


Well a ret paladin can still BoP, BoF, cleanse, and throw a heal when needed. You wont be able to judge/crusader strike as much while doing this, but its worth it if you have wf for example, your auto attacks still have the chance to proc wf and seal of command.

If your going to ask, ret or shadow? I assume it would depend on what you already have in the group. Ret pallies dont expect to replace ms wars, but be in the same group. Maybe 2 melee dps is a bit much but that doesnt mean it cant really work in my opinion.

[Saffira]

Ret Pally, Combat Rogue, Ele Shaman.

Redic amount of stuns which ups the dps by the ret pally. Basically there is an MS on the target due to wound poison and the ele shaman if left unchecked can insta gib someone with the two other classes on them.

In addition you have purge, cleanse, WF, grouding and tremor totems. BoF and BoP. I think this combo will be a new 3 dps 3v3 team.

[Keline]

Well a ret paladin can still BoP, BoF, cleanse,
Well they have to BoF themselves, so you'd still need a second paladin to BoF the warrior. The Cleanse is nice - BoP is ok.
and throw a heal when needed.
Heh, no. They can't. 500 hp FoLs or 2000hp HLs won't mean shit.


If your going to ask, ret or shadow?
I'm asking shadow because that is the only other class that has very limited CC for a DPS class without MS. Oh and Shamen, but Bloodlust, totems and Purge are obviously excellent utility that ret can't compete with anyways.
Ret is also lacking a pummel, that's yet another extremly important ability.

[Ultramagnus]

Well they have to BoF themselves, so you'd still need a second paladin to BoF the warrior. The Cleanse is nice - BoP is ok.

Heh, no. They can't. 500 hp FoLs or 2000hp HLs won't mean shit.



I'm asking shadow because that is the only other class that has very limited CC for a DPS class without MS. Oh and Shamen, but Bloodlust, totems and Purge are obviously excellent utility that ret can't compete with anyways.
Ret is also lacking a pummel, that's yet another extremly important ability.

Ok well in all fairness, while that is true. I would like to say that you rarely ever have to bof yourself. I play ret in arena and its usually safe to keep it on the warrior and just cleanse yourself. It may take a few tries but a good pally can work around it. When you do have to bof yourself chances are the warrior wont need it, or you can just cleanse the warrior. That has been my experience at least. Hoj, repentance, and arcane torrent all work as good interupts. Its not as much as pummel but its something.

Am I comparing a ret paladin to elemental shamans/other classes? No, I am saying though that it does have its uses. When a ret pally and a ms warrior jump on someone and they both have windfury, the damage can be surprising.

I have actually saved people in my arena team while playing many times, by squeezing out a few 2k heals man. More commonly actually me and the warrior will try and burst someone down, then right after that I help cleanse/heal us all to full just to lock the win. So yes it can mean shit buddy.

[Injunfeller]

what xios said...

I doubt anything is going to change. It's real nice that ret pallies might be able to do burst, but arena's arent about semi-random burst. You call a target, and blow it up at the push of a button. Not..oo that didnt crit and this didnt proc and o crap..im out of mana.

Besides, if we go in and start 2-4 shotting people (really doubtful) blizzard wont hesitate to break out the nerf bat, cause players will whine...a lot. They have bubble..they have bop..he healed himself to full..blah blah blah..

Then again..they've let druids sit virtually unchallenged since TBC came out..

[Cerana]

Ok well in all fairness, while that is true. I would like to say that you rarely ever have to bof yourself. I play ret in arena and its usually safe to keep it on the warrior and just cleanse yourself. It may take a few tries but a good pally can work around it. When you do have to bof yourself chances are the warrior wont need it, or you can just cleanse the warrior. That has been my experience at least. Hoj, repentance, and arcane torrent all work as good interupts. Its not as much as pummel but its something.

Am I comparing a ret paladin to elemental shamans/other classes? No, I am saying though that it does have its uses. When a ret pally and a ms warrior jump on someone and they both have windfury, the damage can be surprising.

I have actually saved people in my arena team while playing many times, by squeezing out a few 2k heals man. More commonly actually me and the warrior will try and burst someone down, then right after that I help cleanse/heal us all to full just to lock the win. So yes it can mean shit buddy.


Thats the right and only way to play in Ret in 3on3, otherwise you'll loose in higher ratings :)

Most Ret's forget that they even can Cleanse / BoF on other Players / Heal...sometimes just a crappy 2k holy light can save a life, for eg. if your Healer is feared/cc'ed.

[Baconn]

I do significantly more damage than I did last patch, having cleanse on a 40 yard range is great, vindication is great for eating up dispels, and having SoC be undispellable is awesome. In season 3, the resilience gear will make it easy to stay alive.

As for offhealing: if a paladin ignores his ability to heal, that team will fail. Many times I switch to tossing out heals to save our warrior when the shaman gets silenced/CS'd, or just to try and fake out their mage and make him counterspell me instead of our shaman. The best is being able to turn around and crusader strike after you've been silenced.