Speccs, Weapons, Gems, Enchants, Arena Combos for season 3

[Fallen]

So season 3 ain´t that far away, it´s up on PTR together with Zul Aman and the awesome Rogues changes!

Lets see what I have learned from my two seasons of arena games aswell as honor farming (BG´s ain´t serious PvP).

-Shadowstep sucks
-Backstab specc is dead (baby jesus cries when backstab dosen´t crit and he is crying a river atm)
-We are mini warriors with full combat specc, no need for support until our cooldowns says otherwise. Can also get really boring after some time, spamming SS like there is no tomorrow.
-Mutilate helps to keep the poison up, makes us easier to heal, snare resist, increase other people´s dmg with one of our skills for x seconds etc etc.

One specc gives something the other specc dosen´t give ofc, that´s why we specc after what we want.

So what do we want for season 3 ?

What will be the main stream specc, Gems on gear, enchants on gear ?

This depends on what setup and specc you are.
if your Mutilate, your gonna enchant surefooted on boots, since minor speed increase dosen´t stack with fleet footed and maybe snare resist meta gem.

if your combat, are you gonna go for gems to increase your survival or gems to increase your dmg ? say you stand toe to toe on a warrior, do you want hp or dmg ? (both you and him got healers ofc)

Myself are using different gems, 4agi 6 sta, 24 ap and 18 sta from JC, 4 agi 4 hit and 18 sta meta gem.

With the new gear we will get more dmg, more hp and more resilience, maybe it´s time to go full out dmg gems and enchants ?

Personally I love playing Mutilate. Great and funny specc in whatever setup for 3v3, but for 2v2 maybe AR/Prep is better in a double dps setup.

What setup in season 3 will be considered as the most versatile aka the best to play with as a rogue.

Currently I see Rogue, Warlock, Druid as the best setup, but with the big hit warlocks are getting in terms of drain life and drain mana, maybe not.

So I ask the members of this forum for their ideas about arena combos, enchants on gear, gems on gear aswell as what specc would be awesome.

A think tank for the upcoming patch with buffs and nerfs !

[Teirisias]

I'll be sticking with combat maces in season 3 unless something changes. I'll alter my spec a little, but I've been meaning to do that for a while, just needed an excuse to spend the 50g. As for gems, I'm already gemmed fully for dps and am still at 436 resilience, and as I don't see resilience going down with season 3 gear, it's likely I'll gem for dps in season 3 as well. I'm definitely keeping my stam/stun resist meta-gem and boar's speed. With 2.3, I should be breaking 1400 attack power fairly easily in pvp gear, so hopefully I'll get to put some hit gems in. (I can't stand missing occasionally against frost mages - plus hit's good for dps anyway.)

For me, the biggest change in season 3 will be arena team-mates. I already have my teams worked out for next season and it's people who I feel will be a lot more willing and able to play more games at a more competitive level, which should be great since right now most of my teams are of the 10 games a week mentality.

[buena]

I am combat maces and will go mutilate in s3. It already seemed appealing as a more fun playstyle, and fleet footed buff kind of seals the deal.

I wish they'd make the arena weapons slower than 2.6 so I could go double AR hemo spec with the new dirty deeds buff. But that seems extremely unlikely. If I raided with my rogue and could get a Syphon of the Nathrezim I would definitely do it.

It's annoying because I love the sneakiness of the subtlety tree and would definitely spec it if it was at all viable. But resilience killed backstabbing and 2.6 weapons killed hemo - you are left with needing to have 41 points in another tree just to have a viable attack. QQ.

[Teirisias]

I wish they'd make the arena weapons slower than 2.6 so I could go double AR hemo spec with the new dirty deeds buff.

It's annoying because I love the sneakiness of the subtlety tree and would definitely spec it if it was at all viable. But resilience killed backstabbing and 2.6 weapons killed hemo.

I feel the same way, subtlety is by far my favorite tree - it just feels a lot more fluid and skill oriented than spamming sinister strike as combat maces. Oh well.

[phuzed]

Was mutilate for the longest time then jumped on the bandwagon and did combat maces for awhile.. now trying Sub tree/ assass/combat maces and nothing is as fun as mutilate was.

Even though mace stun is awesome for pvp I think im gunna go back mutilate in S3 when I get the new pvp daggers.

[Pau]

Coming from the view of a healer, Vile Poisons is a must in every sort of build, your gimping yourself by not maxing it out

[koroshi]

Vile Poisons is a must. I cry when rogues have it, pallies get even more boned. It closes the gap between wound poison and MS and your gimping yourself by not taking it in every build.

It'll be tough, right now you have to choose between riposte and vile poisons and it's a pretty easy choice, but next season riposte will become a lot stronger vs. warriors and rogues.

[Xasha]

Riposte won't be a lot stronger, it will just attract poor Rogues to waste 6 talent points.

[Hershram]

It'll be tough, right now you have to choose between riposte and vile poisons and it's a pretty easy choice, but next season riposte will become a lot stronger vs. warriors and rogues.

While we're wasting our 6 talent points, we might as well mention Ret Pallies, Hunters, and Enhancement Shammies. Not saying specifically that you'll be stuck in brackets with these players... but its not completely unlikely.

[phuzed]

Riposte won't be a lot stronger, it will just attract poor Rogues to waste 6 talent points.

What im trying to decide is whether to still rock the mongoose/weapon chain or just go duel mongoose now that weapon chain just reduces the time of disarm.

I was thinking id like to have weapon chain still for 2v2 figuring without my weaps in 2v2 all hell is broken loose.. but for 3v3/5v5 I dont think I get targeted all that much to be disarmed a whole lot. And since im gunna be done with 2v2 pretty soon because it blows balls im just gunna gear up for 3v3/5v5. Duel mongoose just seems more worth it in this case.

Dunno though, still thinking about it and might have to test to see how much ill actually be disarmed by these damn warrs.

Anyone givin some thought on the whole weapon chain change?

[brron]

What im trying to decide is whether to still rock the mongoose/weapon chain or just go duel mongoose now that weapon chain just reduces the time of disarm.

I was thinking id like to have weapon chain still for 2v2 figuring without my weaps in 2v2 all hell is broken loose.. but for 3v3/5v5 I dont think I get targeted all that much to be disarmed a whole lot. And since im gunna be done with 2v2 pretty soon because it blows balls im just gunna gear up for 3v3/5v5. Duel mongoose just seems more worth it in this case.

Dunno though, still thinking about it and might have to test to see how much ill actually be disarmed by these damn warrs.

Anyone givin some thought on the whole weapon chain change?

Why not both? If you still have your weapon from the previous season, just put weapon chain on that. Buy a new offhand and equip that with mongoose/executioner. I'm not really afraid of warriors disarming me, but I am more frightened by rogues which is only one class. Going riposte as mutilate is still going to be iffy...

[buena]

Coming from the view of a healer, Vile Poisons is a must in every sort of build, your gimping yourself by not maxing it out

I have it in a combat build because I also play healers and thought likewise. But I have read that is bugged to not resist the ticks of abolish poison, which makes it useless against the class most commonly dispelling. QQ.

Riposte... ehhhhh.... how often does melee target you anyway? Usually they're all over the clothies.

[Ilyria]

I'm Mut and I'm pretty sure I'm going combat maces next season. I love QR, Vile Poisons, and the CP generation, but I hate how difficult it is to get a hold of an opponent with Mut. Blade twisting, no positional requirement, and a passive stun call me to maces, as well as a REAL cooldown in the form of Adren Rush (Cold Blood sucks, it should like ignore resilience or something) and less dependency on crit.

In 5v5, my job is to hold the warrior in place while my casters beat on him. Mutilate may seem like a better choice for this, considering Imp Kidney Shot and the CP generation, but all mut has is CS and KS for stuns. Warriors can and do resist one or both often, and I think the mace procs would be really useful as backups.

The fleet footed buff is a joke. While running after a ranged class, both unsnared, the 7% speed boost isn't enough to close the gap between you. You'll chase them to the edge of the map or to a pillar before you catch up to them, and then you can cut corners or force them to get close with LOS to catch them, which is basically what we're forced to do right now. The buff needs to be 20-30% in order to be effective at all.

Weapon Chain: I'll carry one in my bags. A 6 second disarm from Riposte is 3 energy ticks (60 energy), while a 3 second disarm after weapon chain is 1 or 2 (20 or 40). With 110-120 energy, I think it's safe to say with a weapon chain no energy will be lost, but without one it's risky. I'm more concerned about a warrior's disarm than a rogue's however, especially without a weapon chain. I'll be using Mongoosex2 for non-disarming teams most likely.

Gems: Mutilate meta: 3% critical damage, because crit % is so high. Maces meta: 3% critical damage, because it's resilience penetration that stacks with the 5% from mace spec for 160 "penetration." Concerning dps gems vs defensive gems, I'm looking to increase my resil by about 70 (to 450) and hp by 1000-1500 (to 11500-12k), and then the rest to dps.

[Fallen]

So with the upcoming hemo buffs in 2.3 and a whole lot of other stuff we care a little less about, what do we prefer, for 3v3 and 5v5 ?

(Heavy sub for 2v2 as double dps and heavy combat for 2v2 with a healer)

I can't seem to find anyone who has done calculation on what specc which will rock/have the advantage/reign supreme etc etc and Im not that big of numbers fan to figure it out myself :P

It also depends on the setup ofc, but most of us rogues either play double dps + healer or triple dps (haven't seen anyone playing with two healers yet, and probably for a good reason).

So the options are between:

Mutilate (41/20/0)
Full combat mace/sword/fist
AR/Prep specc spamming hemo
AR/Prep specc spamming sinister strike

(Even with the new dirty tricks, CB/Premed is not good enough for dps in a double dps + healer, and damn uncertain about it in 3 dps since you wont be doing much dmg without using some 5 cp cb evicerate when the targer is under 35%)

Will dmg increased to hemo be it to save the specc, making it popular for 3v3 or are we stuck with Mutilate / Full Combat speccs (Since atm it's a cd specc with no lasting power when cd's are out :/)

Probably forgot something I was supposed to write, but I guess I need to fill it in later !

PS: 68 hit rating with full s3 arena and honor gear + badge cloak, so surefooted would make it enough for blind not to miss ! or a hit gem or two.

[buena]

The fleet footed buff is a joke. While running after a ranged class, both unsnared, the 7% speed boost isn't enough to close the gap between you. You'll chase them to the edge of the map or to a pillar before you catch up to them, and then you can cut corners or force them to get close with LOS to catch them, which is basically what we're forced to do right now. The buff needs to be 20-30% in order to be effective at all.

I disagree with this statement. I have PvPed long enough that I definitely notice who has a runspeed enchant and who doesn't, and this change is going to make it feel as if my rogue does and everyone else doesn't. Except retadins. LoL.


Also, hemo: 2.6 weapons basically break it. All the hemo and sub buffs are saying is that rogues in BT guilds get to totally own now while the rest of us with arena weapons only get to be a watered-down version, or go mutilate. I'll be going mutilate.

[krosis]

whats every one thinking of shooting for as far as a hp range goes for s3 because I know I definitely need to re-tool my gems and replace my strictly +stam trinket because as far as 3s and 5s go I go down last or pretty much last and more AP would definitely be a nice change.

[Fallen]

Hemo is rocking on PTR for sure, though im still not convinced, since doing AV's against people in gimp pve gear dosen't show much.

the change of weapon skill, mace talent, dirty deeds, hemo and so on are damn great buffs to make this specc viable for every bracket.
Tho missing out on stuff like QR, Fleet Footed, Poison Talents, Relentless really hurts.

Anyone found any numbers about AR/Prep as it is on ptr, vs full combat or mutilate ?

(I really regret passing on mace from supremus now :( )

[eviscerater]

s3 mace will be best for hemo. hemo will be normalized and syphon will be on par with s2 mace if you are going for the ar/prep build with hemo.

[buena]

The thing I love about hemo becoming viable is that it opens up literally dozens of possible specs to try out, theroycraft, and math about. As opposed to this season where the only viable attacks require 41-point talents, severely limiting your creativity.

Other than the obvious AR maces + deadliness spec I can tons of assassination / sub hybrids that are potentially viable. Even involving... dare I say... SHADOWSTEP?!?! O_o

Shadowstep hemo spec: lol?
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=foebRZZxReo0GRsest

[herreth]

Wow. Hemmorhage doing 125% weapon damage along with the +36 damage debuff.

It opens up for so much talent build speculation that i just have no idea what to spec when 2.3 comes.

I read up on a thread at elitist jerks, this one - http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t14321-rogue_combat_vs_hemo_point_inflection/p20/ - And at aproximately page 20 it seems is where the 125% hemo damage buff has been released and that just changes the ball park completely.

There are so many pages in there and its late over here so havent read it all yet, but it would seem Deep combat might have a heavy competitor right here.

Ill ask a simple question now, because i havent yet discovered it myself, - Which build will have the best sustained DPS come patch 2.3 ? Because the thread i linked above would have it seem that some of the hybrid tri-specs might be capable of performing sustained damage that actualyl excells combat

So much exciting new stuff

[Teirisias]

I'll be sticking with combat maces in season 3 unless something changes. I'll alter my spec a little, but I've been meaning to do that for a while, just needed an excuse to spend the 50g. As for gems, I'm already gemmed fully for dps and am still at 436 resilience, and as I don't see resilience going down with season 3 gear, it's likely I'll gem for dps in season 3 as well. I'm definitely keeping my stam/stun resist meta-gem and boar's speed. With 2.3, I should be breaking 1400 attack power fairly easily in pvp gear, so hopefully I'll get to put some hit gems in. (I can't stand missing occasionally against frost mages - plus hit's good for dps anyway.)

For me, the biggest change in season 3 will be arena team-mates. I already have my teams worked out for next season and it's people who I feel will be a lot more willing and able to play more games at a more competitive level, which should be great since right now most of my teams are of the 10 games a week mentality.

I made this post right after the thread was made, and wow, the first sentence says it all. So much has changed since I made this post - I'll be phasing out my 18 stam/5% stun resist meta gem in favor of a dps oriented meta gem (12 agi, 3% crit dmg, or perhaps 24 AP and minor run speed). I'll still be gemming for dps, but also enchanting for dps as well. Attack Power and Hit gems in everything since I'll be speccing AR/Prep and have maxed out deadliness. I'll be gearing similarly to Ming (as much as I hate to say it), but I'm going to use either 5 agi/5 hit BT gems that I'll buy from guilds on my server, or 8 hit gems in the yellow slots instead of Wicked Noble Topaz.

I'll have a 0/31/30 build, which will probably be pretty close to this: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhfVbbVt0b0oZxMeoMhRox

If the hemo buffs persist, it's definitely going to be an enjoyable season for me, as I'm an avid dueler, and it'll be great to be able to both arena and duel with a top of the line spec.

[Fallen]

Hemo on PTR is tested and I do approve ! It´s a damn awesome specc if you tell me !
I literally raped an SL/SL warlock with void walker, standing with full hp at the end of duel (bandage lol! Just had to rub it in on the warlock).

Tho I really want to play Mutilate :( I love daggers, but seeing this specc on ptr, makes me lean towards it.

Teirisias, I see you are thinking of hit gems instead of ap/crit gems, how come ? The new arena gear will be giving 78 hit with surefooted (Tho maybe you will use another enchant on boots, making hit gems worth it imo. I really don´t understand Rogues who neglect hit for PvP, since it does make your blind miss if you don´t have enough hit rating :<)

and your specc ! how come your taking endurance, when you got prep :>? and blade twisting over weapon expertise (which is getting changed, making your attacks dodge and get parried less). Tested blade twisting myself, and it´s great for when it proccs but since it only works on SS, Backstab and Shiv, and your going to be spamming hemo it wont procc much :P

and skipping Heightened senses in Sub ain´t to smart either ! It´s great against other rogues, since a lot of rogues will be going AR/Prep (rogue vs rogue duels will just be totaly retarded, as they are now :D) and it helps for sure against ranged and casters :> It´s 4% snare resist against magical snares (like CoEx, Frostbolt, Nova, CoC, Concussive show (typo?) Roots, Cyclone! and many more prob :P

This is my 0/31/30:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhjV0bVt0M0oZxMjoMGRoL

You can ofc change one Senses with Deadliness :>

[herreth]

I made this post right after the thread was made, and wow, the first sentence says it all. So much has changed since I made this post - I'll be phasing out my 18 stam/5% stun resist meta gem in favor of a dps oriented meta gem (12 agi, 3% crit dmg, or perhaps 24 AP and minor run speed). I'll still be gemming for dps, but also enchanting for dps as well. Attack Power and Hit gems in everything since I'll be speccing AR/Prep and have maxed out deadliness. I'll be gearing similarly to Ming (as much as I hate to say it), but I'm going to use either 5 agi/5 hit BT gems that I'll buy from guilds on my server, or 8 hit gems in the yellow slots instead of Wicked Noble Topaz.

I'll have a 0/31/30 build, which will probably be pretty close to this: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhfVbbVt0b0oZxMeoMhRox

If the hemo buffs persist, it's definitely going to be an enjoyable season for me, as I'm an avid dueler, and it'll be great to be able to both arena and duel with a top of the line spec.


Teireisias is this for your 2v2 rogue/priest team? the reason i ask is that i run the same setup and im heavily considering speccing into a build like the one you proposed.

[MentalPROblem]

I got loads of questions xD
How come many of you skip the Sleight of Hand talent and go for Camouflage? 2% crit reduction (or is it reducement or reducing) equals to loads of resilience, and what's so cool about running faster in stealth? Normally I only restealth if I'm feared far far away and a lock is sitting on my driud on another side of the bridge and it's so far away that I'd rather mount sometimes :P I suppose it's gonna make gouge-->restealth combo much easier or something, though normally when I have an opportunity to restealth I usually have stealth off cooldown.
I also see most of you going for Ghostly Strike there (though I've been always under imprission that it sucked completely in pre-tbc when I went for 21/8/22 or something like that :P) I still took that on PTR and haven't quite figured out how to use it xD When do you guys use that? When someone is melee'ing you and you want to get more dodge or mostly for the damage done by this ability (if so, wouldn't spamming hemo be better since it costs less energy and does more damage?)
Was also wondering on how terrible do you reckon hemo mace specc will be in PvE? The current situation from my point of view is that combat daggers/swords are topping the damage meters, I'd say that maces CAN possible compete with the daggers/swords, meaning that if I crush someone on the damage meter with daggers I probably will with maces, and Mutilate sucks completely at raids, though I still somehow manage to stay Mutilate at raids (probably because or CL is Mutilate -.-) but it's still like 80% of what I could do with daggers.
It's rather a funny situation here on the weapon chains enchant xD If we all think that 'HELL YEAH, WEAPON CHAINS ARE THE GODDAMN ABSOLETE VITAL MUST' well I just won't take Riposte since the ones who worth disarming are immune :P and otherwise if we all say 'RIPOSTE FTW' I'll get the weapon chains since everyone is spamming Riposte, I mean from what it seems now at s2, many people think 'screw riposte, they are all imunne anyway' so if they all are passing Riposte talent I won't bother with Weapon Chains :P (I hope you got my idea xD) I think I'm going for neither Riposte nor Weapon Chains
Another thought here: I believe that playing as Mutilate really trains a rogue to always be behind the target and always have crippiling poised shiv'ed to the target, same thing for pve: if you used to be daggers and decided to respecc to swords you will have a habbit of getting behind the targets.
I still didn't give hemo mace specc a good test on PTR, just playing around with all the new cool stuff but nothing really serious which would enable me to arrive at a definite point on what's better.
One more question here: My plan for the next season was to get helm/gloves right away (having 5k points ofc) raising the team rating to 2k in 1-2 weeks, getting the shoulders, it will leave me with around 1,5k points, at that point I will have 3/5 s3 2/5 s2 and some nice daggers (Fang of Vashj-Merciless Shanker) So I was thinking of getting the s1 maces for honour and giving it a good test, but do you think that the degrade from changing the weapons to crap will be less than upgrade to better (which we ain't sure about yet) specc?
Thanks.

[Teirisias]

I actually switched my 2 filler talents to weapon expertise and improved kick. Originally I had skipped over improved kick because it would've actually been detrimental with silence DRs in a shadow priest rogue team, but since they revoked that change, it's useful once again. (7 seconds of chain silence results in quite a few druid kills) I also dropped blade twisting for weapon expertise because of the change to weapon expertise making it expertise rating instead of weapon skill.

I'm opting for hit gems over AP/crit because hit isn't mitigated by resilience, whereas crit is, and druids and priests have new anti-crit talents which actually hurt you for critting them. As such, I also opted for Deadliness over Malice. I've never been a big fan of crit anyway. Not to mention, hit helps with poison applications, increases sustained dps (not as useful for 2's with an spriest, but useful in 3's and 5's which I plan on playing more heavily in season 3 than I currently do), and helps pushback spells.

I did end up picking up 1 point in HS. The build I'm going to be using in 2.3 is my current build on live (armory is up to date talent-wise).

I'm gemming and enchanting extremely offensively because it's very rare for me to get focus fired, so I feel that a lot of my stamina and resilience can be phased out for dps, which will help in every bracket. I should jump from my current ~1450 attack power to around 1800 attack power once I'm fully S3 geared, in addition to picking up a significant amount of hit while losing only a small amount of resilience (about 30 max) and retaining about the same amount of hp.

[Teirisias]

I got loads of questions xD
How come many of you skip the Sleight of Hand talent and go for Camouflage? 2% crit reduction (or is it reducement or reducing) equals to loads of resilience, and what's so cool about running faster in stealth? Normally I only restealth if I'm feared far far away and a lock is sitting on my driud on another side of the bridge and it's so far away that I'd rather mount sometimes :P I suppose it's gonna make gouge-->restealth combo much easier or something, though normally when I have an opportunity to restealth I usually have stealth off cooldown.
I also see most of you going for Ghostly Strike there (though I've been always under imprission that it sucked completely in pre-tbc when I went for 21/8/22 or something like that :P) I still took that on PTR and haven't quite figured out how to use it xD When do you guys use that? When someone is melee'ing you and you want to get more dodge or mostly for the damage done by this ability (if so, wouldn't spamming hemo be better since it costs less energy and does more damage?)
Was also wondering on how terrible do you reckon hemo mace specc will be in PvE? The current situation from my point of view is that combat daggers/swords are topping the damage meters, I'd say that maces CAN possible compete with the daggers/swords, meaning that if I crush someone on the damage meter with daggers I probably will with maces, and Mutilate sucks completely at raids, though I still somehow manage to stay Mutilate at raids (probably because or CL is Mutilate -.-) but it's still like 80% of what I could do with daggers.
It's rather a funny situation here on the weapon chains enchant xD If we all think that 'HELL YEAH, WEAPON CHAINS ARE THE GODDAMN ABSOLETE VITAL MUST' well I just won't take Riposte since the ones who worth disarming are immune :P and otherwise if we all say 'RIPOSTE FTW' I'll get the weapon chains since everyone is spamming Riposte, I mean from what it seems now at s2, many people think 'screw riposte, they are all imunne anyway' so if they all are passing Riposte talent I won't bother with Weapon Chains :P (I hope you got my idea xD) I think I'm going for neither Riposte nor Weapon Chains
Another thought here: I believe that playing as Mutilate really trains a rogue to always be behind the target and always have crippiling poised shiv'ed to the target, same thing for pve: if you used to be daggers and decided to respecc to swords you will have a habbit of getting behind the targets.
I still didn't give hemo mace specc a good test on PTR, just playing around with all the new cool stuff but nothing really serious which would enable me to arrive at a definite point on what's better.
One more question here: My plan for the next season was to get helm/gloves right away (having 5k points ofc) raising the team rating to 2k in 1-2 weeks, getting the shoulders, it will leave me with around 1,5k points, at that point I will have 3/5 s3 2/5 s2 and some nice daggers (Fang of Vashj-Merciless Shanker) So I was thinking of getting the s1 maces for honour and giving it a good test, but do you think that the degrade from changing the weapons to crap will be less than upgrade to better (which we ain't sure about yet) specc?
Thanks.

I personally don't like sleight of hand because I don't get attacked much, and obviously, the feint portion of it is useless in pvp. I find myself restealthing quite a bit in arenas with this build, especially after taking full duration CCs. Also, it helps in 2v2 against mounters which are quite common. Overall, I'd say it's more useful than sleight of hand by quite a bit. (That's without even taking into account its obvious dueling implications, which, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, is one of my favorite activities.)

Ghostly strike is good for when warriors or other rogues are on you, it helps mitigate damage.

Hemo maces should do well in pve, but not as the assassination hemo or AR Prep variants. You need a more specialized 11/27/23 build like this one:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0eboZ0eV0bVp0MZVrfobhMo

I'll still be using a weapon chain in season 3, and I'd imagine most other serious pvp rogues will as well. Eating a 10 second disarm from a warrior is really way too much, so a weapon chain's still fairly necessary. As such, I'm not picking up riposte because other talents will be more useful in my opinion since you're essentially wasting the 5 points in deflection (5% melee mitigation isn't really that huge) to pick up Riposte, especially for me since I don't get focus fired often.

If you want to give hemo maces a test, do it with the best weapons available. Using season 1 gear isn't an accurate indicator of how well the spec will perform. I'd say stick with mutilate rather than wasting honor on season 1 weapons.

[MentalPROblem]

Thanks for the answer, Teirisias.
I was also wondering about one more thing. I see very lot of rogues that go combat maces or hemo build picking some talent points in imp SnD. Right now that I am mutilate I'm SO rarely using it because if I have any spare points I'd use them firstly on KS, then on Rupture or Espose Armour and by the time I used those I normaly have KS off the cooldown again. Can this possible be due to the reason that combat builds generaly have more spare combo points? I've been looking at the damage meter details at raids and noticed that combat swords do much more damage with Eviscerate or Rupture than me, so assuming that we have equal gear and each rogue aims firstly to have SnD ALWAYS up they just have more spare combo points. Does it work the same way with combat maces and hemo for pvp compared with mutilate? Will I feel that I'm having loads of spare points which I'm wasting on Eviscerate once I respecc?

[Fallen]

SnD is 30% more white dmg

Use it!

[Teirisias]

Mutilate generates more combo points than combat. Don't be afraid to use less than 5 point slice and dices, usually 1-3 points is all you need. I try to keep it up as much as possible in arenas.

[Gabel]

Fallen, you know Davetheone? I just noticed your 3v3 name and reminded me of him.

[Fallen]

Fallen, you know Davetheone? I just noticed your 3v3 name and reminded me of him.

yes I do :>

[Gabel]

Haha, tell him to diaf and transfer his belf to TH. :)

[Hoove]

Rogue on my teams is going AR/Prep with the new Dirty deeds is hawt. We've done a lot of Arena on PTR. We run a 3 dps team in 3v3 on live and it's real nice. This spec should fit in perfectly with our combo. Mage/Lock/Rogue.