Talents for 5v5

[Qor]

As the world of arena continues to evolve, many of us become bored with our specs and look for any reason to fudge around a point or two. Now, I run a sorta-typical 4dps team (Pally, spriest, UA lock, WE mage, me). I have been running the same spec all season: 18/43 combat.

Current Spec (18/43/0):

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fbeboxZG0EzrVt00hRt

As of recently, I have come to question whether my points in Deflection/Riposte would be better spent elsewhere. As a rogue in a 4 dps team, I am very rarely focus fired. It is generally a mistake if an opposing team focuses me first as our spriest/lock will dump alot of damage very quickly. So, with that said, I very rarely use deflection and riposte. So, where else could I use these points?

Spec Idea (19/42/0):

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=wheboxZGcV0rVt0bhRt

Now, obviously the 3/3 imp evis and 3/3 SnD will be quite handy. SnD is a very powerful finisher in 5s, especially for a combat rogue and finishing off Imp Evis is a no brainer. However, picking up 2/2 blade twisting is not something you see often in rogue specs. Is it worth the 2pts? Well, the daze effect cannot be countered by BoF and I believe blade twisting can proc while a target is affected by BoP.

thoughts?

[MatsT]

Some comments:

Blade twisting daze effect is removed by BoF just like blastwave daze and other player slows. It's not connected to mob daze effect apart from the name.

Is imp SnD really that good in a 4 dps team? I thought it was mostly KS with the first 5 points and then finish it with eviscerate.

Isn't vitality a quite good talent? Though i suppose it's not perfect if you are not focused in a 4 dps team, but it still gives agility.

[Skooter]

Some comments:

Blade twisting daze effect is removed by BoF just like blastwave daze and other player slows. It's not connected to mob daze effect apart from the name.

Is imp SnD really that good in a 4 dps team? I thought it was mostly KS with the first 5 points and then finish it with eviscerate.

Isn't vitality a quite good talent? Though i suppose it's not perfect if you are not focused in a 4 dps team, but it still gives agility.Ok the daze can be removed by BoF but can it proc while BoF is up? I've heard from some people yes but I've never been able to test it.

[Nortix]

I too run a 4 dps 1 healer setup. The team that I am on is comprised of an Ele Shaman, a Shadow Priest, a Mace Rogue (me), Affliction Warlock, and a Holy Pally. I find that it is rare for a team to focus fire me, so this means I will rarely get hit and parry so riposte will hardly ever be up. Also, the vast majority of decent warriors will have the talent that makes them immune to disarm so again riposte will be less useful. As you and most know rogues are not too common, so the chance that there will a rogue on you, giving you things is parry is low, in addition most rogues who are in the higher levels of 5 v 5 will have a weapon chain on their weapon, so disarm will be useless too. (I don't but I have my lazyness as an excuse.) So, in my opinion putting points into parry and riposte is a huge waste, the points would be better spent elsewhere.


Now to address Imp. SnD:

Imp SnD is semi-useful but 3 points? That is a waste. It will be rare for a target to be alive for a gurenteed 25 seconds unless you play a 3 healer team or unless your job is to prevent mana burns / CC instead of DPS. Devoting points to SnD over Evis / Envenom / Rupture / Kidney Shot will slow down your DPS in a burn team situation. Think of it this way: Cheapshot, SnD, Abbacus, AR, Blade Flurry and at this point you begin to shiv wound or Sinister it will be about 10 + more seconds after your inital opener that you are able to apply your first 5 pt kidney shot. Now, for a burn team I personally find the only reason to bring a rogue along is to eliminate a player without killing him or her.

A rogue on a target locks him down, making it a 4v5 of sorts, during this lock down wound poision is being applied. So our DPSing is also CC...add in mace stuns / dazes you have a decent lock down of a player. So I believe that this too will be a waste of points, I like having 1 - 2 pts at very most in SnD. I only use 1 because of my build which is not the traditional combat mace rogue setup, infact I am the only rogue with this setup that I can see, especially in the top 10.


Daze:

Daze is good, I love it. Downsides are that is just like hamstring in terms of being dispelled / removed. It also over rides Crippling Poison but that imo is not a bad thing, Cripp can be dispelled daze can not, and when it wears off you will probably have applied a cripp shortly after so if you think about it this is a very, very good thing. In the order of posions it could go either way without daze, but after you get 5 wound and 1 cripp and then a daze, crippling will be over ridden, after daze wears off you apply cripp and that will be cleansed BEFORE wound so there is a longer duration of wound that wont be removed as fast as it normally would.

I'd revise your build imo, a very points that you can spend elsewhere.

Thanks for reading, sorry for the maaaaaasive amounts of errors.