Mongoose vs Savagery

[theradol]

Im a hunter who does nothing but arena and pvp and I just got the s2 axe.

If i really want it, i can get the mats(void crystals, ugh) for a mongoose enchant, but it'd be too expensive for me to try out and not like. So i was wondering what you guys think of Mongoose for arenaing, and whether its better than savagery. (mongoose does proc on ranged attacks right? otherwise this isn't gonna be a very difficult decision)

thx

[Alkacharr]

as far as i know mongoose does not proc from ranged... if it did i think it would be better considering its 2% haste 120 AP and like 3-4 crit. A lot of warriors use it and imo agi for a hunter is far superior to agi for a warrior. So if it did proc off ranged it would be better but im pretty sure that it doesn't.

[Faerun]

No, Mongoose does not proc off ranged. You should be going with Agi or Int on your weapons - if you're using 2H, go 35agi, otherwise go 2x20 int like CAPSLOCKCREWS's hunter. You want the crit, AP, dodge, etc from the 35agi, which is better than simply 35more AP.

[Megatf]

No, Mongoose does not proc off ranged. You should be going with Agi or Int on your weapons - if you're using 2H, go 35agi, otherwise go 2x20 int like CAPSLOCKCREWS's hunter. You want the crit, AP, dodge, etc from the 35agi, which is better than simply 35more AP.

[Hexagon]

You all speak like marksman hunters, am I the only BM hunter in here? As a non-marks hunter, I recommend savagery for your 2h over agility. I focus on dps as my main stat in the arena, and the best formula I've found for calculating overall dps (which includes the crit chance from agility) is

1agi = 1crit = 1.818 ap (I found this a while back from the math wizards on the hunter forums, and they all seem to agree on it)

I know, the formula is flawed, because there's no 100% accurate way to calculate crit chance into dps, because obviously the more attack power you have, the more your crit gear will be worth.

That being said, 35 agil = 63.63 ap. Savagery gives 70 ap. If you want to give up 7ap for some dodge and armor, then go with agility. Personally, I'd rather the extra damage.

Also, there is a debate going on in the warrior boards, where half of them say mongoose is best for a 2hander, and half say savagery. The ones who prefer savagery believe that attack power is the single most important thing for a warrior to have in the arena. I've seen top rated warriors with mongoose, and top rated warriors with savagery, so I don't know.

Anyway, that doesn't matter, because we are hunters. Savagery ftw.

Oh, another thing... I believe you should always use a 2 hander in pvp, for the raptor strike, but like I said, I don't play as marks, maybe that double intel on 1 handers is good for that spec? I have no clue.

[Faerun]

If you focus on DPS, how does crit =/= DPS? Not only do you get increased damage over time, you get more burst and those little amounts of agi everywhere really add up (35 on wep, 15 on gloves, gems, etc). Even as a BM hunter, you should have 20 pts in MM which means you pick up the 2 biggest talents for MM hunters in terms of crit, meaning you need them just as much as we do. The reason for int enchants is that hunters are built for endurance setups and hunters run OOM waaaaaaaaaay too fast. Granted, I only know of one good hunter with those enchants, but I'm imagine w/ the AotV change coming, he will be switching over to 2x 20agi.

[Hexagon]

crit does = dps. It is calculated into the formula when I compare agility to attack power. When I say 1agi = 1crit = 1.818 ap, I mean that 1 agility (with the crit from that included) = 1.818 ap.

Actually, the biggest reason I prefer attack power over agility is because your agility converts to crit for YOU which does not carry over to your pet. Your pet only gets extra dps from the attack power that agility gives you, not the crit.

[theradol]

If you focus on DPS, how does crit =/= DPS? Not only do you get increased damage over time, you get more burst and those little amounts of agi everywhere really add up (35 on wep, 15 on gloves, gems, etc). Even as a BM hunter, you should have 20 pts in MM which means you pick up the 2 biggest talents for MM hunters in terms of crit, meaning you need them just as much as we do. The reason for int enchants is that hunters are built for endurance setups and hunters run OOM waaaaaaaaaay too fast. Granted, I only know of one good hunter with those enchants, but I'm imagine w/ the AotV change coming, he will be switching over to 2x 20agi.

Im bm too, and i actually try to spec myself out for 2's and 3's believe it or not. So mana's not a big issue. All the research and math i've done gives me that 70 ap ~ 35 agi, ones better than the other im sure, but i don't sweat the small stuff. I kinda figure that resilience makes crit less important than it used to be. Not so much for the reduced chance, but the reduced dmg from crits.

I actually ended up putting 35 agi on my weapon last night though, because i had 6 greater planar essences and 0 dust on me. Though i miss the savagery enchant effect, it was the leetest.

[theradol]

Actually, the biggest reason I prefer attack power over agility is because your agility converts to crit for YOU which does not carry over to your pet. Your pet only gets extra dps from the attack power that agility gives you, not the crit.

and that too

[Pacer]

I prefer Savagery due to my high base crit chance, my lower AP, and the influence of Resilience. Personal preference IMO, but no Mongoose.

[KennyEU]

AP gets affected by resilience just as much as crit. After all, you do still crit, even if you take +AP items over +crit items, and then when you do crit, the % reduction will be bigger for you, because you make bigger crits -when- you crit, cause of lower crit and higher AP.

[Harmann]

Let's say you auto shoot every 3s for 1k with 15% crit rate against a 400 resilience target:

Base DPS:
3 crits @ 1833 dmg + 17 noncrits @ 1000 dmg per minute = 22500 damage = 375 DPS

Adding 1% crit = 1/100 chance to add 1000 dmg to an attack, but only 833 after resilience. A 0.83 DPS% increase.

Your DPS would go from 375 to 377.75

Adding 1% dmg = 10 damage to every auto attack, 18.3 damage to every crit.

Your DPS would go from 375 to 378.74

Quite a marginal difference between adding 1% more damage and 1% more crit (which without resilience = 1% more damage). 1% crit is roughly 74% as effective as adding 1% more damage in this example.

Stacking AP absolutely circumvents the Resilience mechanic and is what people should be doing.

Having said that, I feel like Agility > AP. Mostly I'm a fan of the dodge it adds. Dodging Hamstring and Rogue attacks with poisons = win.

[crazylegss]

I like the +35 agility enchant because it adds more options than just damage, once s3 starts my 2hander axe will have +35 agi