Beating the Micros

[Elruhir]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78/micro-stakes-full-ring/complete-guide-beating-micros-430637/


Pretty awesome guide imo. It took me a while to finally start making money at the micro levels, but I adjusted my play to pretty much exactly what this guy says.

Solid Guide for Beginners.

[Nether]

Probably okay basis to start with as a beginning player , but as you improve your game youll realize this guide is really limited.

You dont need a hand as strong as two pairs , set , straight.. to take three streets of value against a fish. Understanding this is probably enough to double your winrate in microstakes.

[Hollatime]

I would also advise against starting off with full ring. Really shitty profit ceiling plus playing 6max/HU = playing more hands = developing as a player faster.

[Vander]

I would also advise against starting off with full ring. Really shitty profit ceiling plus playing 6max/HU = playing more hands = developing as a player faster.

you can play more tables at once playing 9 headed tho

[Hollatime]

you can play more tables at once playing 9 headed tho

This is another common mistake made by those starting out. Sure, you can 8 table Nl50 till your eyes bleed and make like 3k a month...or you can play 4 tables, focus on getting better and moving up, making more money long term.

Don't become a rb pro!

[n3rdrage]

id rather slam my dick in a door than play FR

[facebiter]

you can play more tables at once playing 9 headed tho

you can play hands faster at 6 max though, so there isn't much of a difference. 12 6max tables should be the same amount of hands as 18 full ring.

[Vander]

you can play hands faster at 6 max though, so there isn't much of a difference. 12 6max tables should be the same amount of hands as 18 full ring.

blinds will pass you more often tho

[Knix]

Personally I prefer 6 max, because you get to play more because you have to play more aggressive. I know people have said to play more tables if you get bored, but it seems if I play more than 2-4 my playing ability goes out the window.

[n3rdrage]

blinds will pass you more often tho

You can play more hands profitably in 6max than you can FR. Plus I've seen a lot of people who play full ring are set miners. I'm just switching over to heads up and heads up SNG's, lovin it so far.

[Knix]

You can play more hands profitably in 6max than you can FR. Plus I've seen a lot of people who play full ring are set miners. I'm just switching over to heads up and heads up SNG's, lovin it so far.

I've read(Harrington on Cash Games) that 6max is harder to profit from than FR. Do you think that's true?

Another possibility is me reading the book wrong, but I think that's what he said.

[n3rdrage]

I've read(Harrington on Cash Games) that 6max is harder to profit from than FR. Do you think that's true?

Another possibility is me reading the book wrong, but I think that's what he said.

What I'm saying is, you're going to be in position more often than you are in full ring. Which means you can play a wider range of hands profitably in position. Example, AJo, you would raise with this UTG, possibly fold to a 3bet, but you should actually consider mucking this in FR UTG. I think there is more variance in 6max and the players that focus on 6max are better than the players who focus on 9 max. 9 max even up to mid stakes can be covered with short stacking set miners.

[Knix]

What I'm saying is, you're going to be in position more often than you are in full ring. Which means you can play a wider range of hands profitably in position. Example, AJo, you would raise with this UTG, possibly fold to a 3bet, but you should actually consider mucking this in FR UTG. I think there is more variance in 6max and the players that focus on 6max are better than the players who focus on 9 max. 9 max even up to mid stakes can be covered with short stacking set miners.

No, I understood what your original post said, about 6max having more profitable hands, my question was in general is 6max more profitable, but you seemed to have answered that already.

[Nether]

Knix : The "reachable" winrates are larger in shorthanded than in fullring

[Dropout]

This strategy is all fine and dandy until people notice you never go in and don't call you when you have a good hand, or simply don't hit a hand when you hit one and fold. :) OR, your hand doesn't hit and you have to fold to their bet.

Pretty shitty strategy imo.

[Hollatime]

This strategy is all fine and dandy until people notice you never go in and don't call you when you have a good hand, or simply don't hit a hand when you hit one and fold. :) OR, your hand doesn't hit and you have to fold to their bet.

Pretty shitty strategy imo.

Your opponents at these limits are not even close to being considered observant. Also, the guys playing 12/10 do not have bluffs/air etc in their ranges - they're only playing legitimate hands.

FR winrates are typically higher than 6-max winrates for a few reasons (overall strength of absolute/relative ranges, preflop edges shrinking in today's MSNL+ 6max games etc), but that doesn't necessarily mean it's easier to beat because conversely, HU winrates are much higher than both.

Sure, it's a lot easier to play super tight at FR and turn a profit than HU/6max when your first starting out, but you have to think about how that will hinder your progress. There is virtually no games once you break through the micros and SSNL. Just taking a quick peak at the stars lobby, there are all of two 5/10+ games running right now.

Additionally, learning poker from a 6-max or HU perspective forces you to develop as a player. If you're just a FR nit who grinds till their eyes bleed, you're going to run out of runway sooner or later with no where to go. Where as if you have an actual understanding of poker andsee a juicy spot in a FR game, you can adjust your game accordingly and do just fine.

[facebiter]

mass tabling actually allows you to learn quicker about ranges at the stakes you play and other stuff like that, but gives you less time to make decisions and impairs your ability to take in info and reads on your opponents-but at the same time your taking in more info on your opponents than you would only 4 tabling.

I'd advise people starting out to go through microstakes playing as many tables as you can without it timing out, after a while you'll get the feeling that information is being downloaded into your head at a really fast rate. You'll get used to tendencies that players have super quick, and you'll gain awesome almost instinctive like plays. You won't be able to show off your bb/100 to all your nerd friends but it really is the best way to get through microstakes. At least it was for me.

[n3rdrage]

mass tabling actually allows you to learn quicker about ranges at the stakes you play and other stuff like that, but gives you less time to make decisions and impairs your ability to take in info and reads on your opponents-but at the same time your taking in more info on your opponents than you would only 4 tabling.

I'd advise people starting out to go through microstakes playing as many tables as you can without it timing out, after a while you'll get the feeling that information is being downloaded into your head at a really fast rate. You'll get used to tendencies that players have super quick, and you'll gain awesome almost instinctive like plays. You won't be able to show off your bb/100 to all your nerd friends but it really is the best way to get through microstakes. At least it was for me.
terrible idea for a beginner. This is by far the most -EV statement I've ever seen lol.

[Dropout]

terrible idea for a beginner. This is by far the most -EV statement I've ever seen lol.
What about for someone who understands the game? Granted, I'm new to online poker, but I think I'm pretty decent.

[Hollatime]

What about for someone who understands the game? Granted, I'm new to online poker, but I think I'm pretty decent.

It's almost never going to be a good idea to mass table when you're first moving through the limits. Making an extra $2 an hour is not going to be worth actually getting better for a long, long time.

Mass tabling is used to "sink in" to a limit and make money. If you have no aspirations of moving up, or are comfortably beating a limit and need to pad your roll to move up - add tables. Basically you're accepting a lower winrate for a higher hourly.

[Knix]

I seriously must be missing something. I've been hovering around $25 for 4-5 days now, playing at most 3 tables for around 3 hours a day.

If I take my opponent as a thinking player, then I overestimate them and fold when they bluff and end up losing money.

If I treat them like fish, then I end up losing huge hands to shit like slowplaying trips.

I really have no idea what I'm doing wrong.

Playing 1c/2c 6max, btw.

[facebiter]

I seriously must be missing something. I've been hovering around $25 for 4-5 days now, playing at most 3 tables for around 3 hours a day.

If I take my opponent as a thinking player, then I overestimate them and fold when they bluff and end up losing money.

If I treat them like fish, then I end up losing huge hands to shit like slowplaying trips.

I really have no idea what I'm doing wrong.

Playing 1c/2c 6max, btw.

The majority of micro stakes is made up of either total fish, or nit regulars. neither play observantly. just give them credit for what they are. Never assume they are a thinking player until they prove otherwise. First clue will be their stack size, 2nd clue and a huge clue it will be is their bet size, and the way they've played their hands..

The short stacks at micro stakes usually open jam any ace/x card and low pocket pair like 3/3- easy way to beat them is to just call their open jams when you have a/j or a highish pocket pair. ace higher kicker dominates short stacks 80% of the time which is good hehe.

Almost every player at microstakes, everyone except nit regulars will call a bet from you trying to peel flushes, open enders and even guttys-even if you bet pot size into them. 4/5 pot size bets is a good way to go. Also a lot of these players like to call you with mid pair, bottom pair, 4th pair, underpair, and even 2 unders sometimes lol. Really all you have to do against these guys is barrel them 3 times and collect huge amounts of money when they don't hit gin.

When a player overbets to the max at microstakes they almost always have the nuts.

When a player minbets you it is unprofitable to try and bluff them off their shitty hand, because A, people are calling stations and will call you down, and B, because people will sometimes minbet pocket aces like a retard.

so basically you'll wanna be playing quite tight and aggressive and abuse the fact that you'll always have the better kicker than they will. Also feel free to steal the nitty players blinds. Take note of the tendencies these microstakes players have and abuse it to the max. They are all very abuse-able, sexually.

i think that sums up the most important information you'll need to know about the micro's

[Knix]

The majority of micro stakes is made up of either total fish, or nit regulars. neither play observantly. just give them credit for what they are. Never assume they are a thinking player until they prove otherwise. First clue will be their stack size, 2nd clue and a huge clue it will be is their bet size, and the way they've played their hands..

The short stacks at micro stakes usually open jam any ace/x card and low pocket pair like 3/3- easy way to beat them is to just call their open jams when you have a/j or a highish pocket pair. ace higher kicker dominates short stacks 80% of the time which is good hehe.

Almost every player at microstakes, everyone except nit regulars will call a bet from you trying to peel flushes, open enders and even guttys-even if you bet pot size into them. 4/5 pot size bets is a good way to go. Also a lot of these players like to call you with mid pair, bottom pair, 4th pair, underpair, and even 2 unders sometimes lol. Really all you have to do against these guys is barrel them 3 times and collect huge amounts of money when they don't hit gin.

When a player overbets to the max at microstakes they almost always have the nuts.

When a player minbets you it is unprofitable to try and bluff them off their shitty hand, because A, people are calling stations and will call you down, and B, because people will sometimes minbet pocket aces like a retard.

so basically you'll wanna be playing quite tight and aggressive and abuse the fact that you'll always have the better kicker than they will. Also feel free to steal the nitty players blinds. Take note of the tendencies these microstakes players have and abuse it to the max. They are all very abuse-able, sexually.

i think that sums up the most important information you'll need to know about the micro's

Thanks for all that. I'll try to play more TAG. Another question I have is about table selection. I read somewhere that I should look for tables that have high post flop percentages and decent sized pots, is that about right for micros?

[Nether]

In 2nl the only thing you should care about is the stack size of the players on the tables , aim for tables with no shortstackers (less money to take from them) ; the rest doesnt matter , they will (almost) all be fishes anyway.

[Nether]

The majority of micro stakes is made up of either total fish, or nit regulars. neither play observantly. just give them credit for what they are. Never assume they are a thinking player until they prove otherwise. First clue will be their stack size, 2nd clue and a huge clue it will be is their bet size, and the way they've played their hands..

The short stacks at micro stakes usually open jam any ace/x card and low pocket pair like 3/3- easy way to beat them is to just call their open jams when you have a/j or a highish pocket pair. ace higher kicker dominates short stacks 80% of the time which is good hehe.

Almost every player at microstakes, everyone except nit regulars will call a bet from you trying to peel flushes, open enders and even guttys-even if you bet pot size into them. 4/5 pot size bets is a good way to go. Also a lot of these players like to call you with mid pair, bottom pair, 4th pair, underpair, and even 2 unders sometimes lol. Really all you have to do against these guys is barrel them 3 times and collect huge amounts of money when they don't hit gin.

When a player overbets to the max at microstakes they almost always have the nuts.

When a player minbets you it is unprofitable to try and bluff them off their shitty hand, because A, people are calling stations and will call you down, and B, because people will sometimes minbet pocket aces like a retard.

so basically you'll wanna be playing quite tight and aggressive and abuse the fact that you'll always have the better kicker than they will. Also feel free to steal the nitty players blinds. Take note of the tendencies these microstakes players have and abuse it to the max. They are all very abuse-able, sexually.

i think that sums up the most important information you'll need to know about the micro's

Exactly , and dont wait for a set or two pairs to take 3 streets of monster value.. just bet 75-90% of the pot with your top pairs on all three streets. And learn to fold when passive fishes raise you (bet/folding is an absolute key concept to rape fishes).

Also , dont play TOO tightly against fishes , some months ago i decided to build a bankroll for fun on pokerstars starting with 40$ , and i actually found myself playing like 27/22 (in shorthanded) in micro stakes (i play ~22/18 in my regular stakes).

[Knix]

Alright, I'm getting pretty sick of the micros. If I have the money(I do) should I just deposit $100 and go to 2c/5c? I'm going up statistically playing 1c/2c, but yet at the end of the day it feels like I'm going no where. I've been hovering around the $25 mark for around 3 weeks(I started with the $10 min deposit).

[Nocorras]

If you're beating the limit and feel comfortable why not move up? Although you probably shouldn't be $25 for 3 weeks unless you're just learning poker. I found another pretty good video that I think is really good. He's playing 4 table 50nl 6 max.

http://dealttohero.com/i-has-an-instructional-poker-video/185

I think he is a full time online player how is at 3/6 nl now and trying to get into 5/10 nl. He made $9200 in a week playing 1/2 and 2/4. He plays more aggressive then he usually does at his normal stakes and pulls 170 profit in 1000 hands. I suggest bookmarking his site dealttohero.com because he will be doing another video at 100nl and 2 separate series, one where he turns 8700 full tilt points to 1k (has a balance of 0 in his acct) and another where he coaches a student that 2-5nl from 10nl to 100nl. I know I'll be watching he explains what he does and what he's thinking the whole way. His videos pretty much changed the whole approach I was going to take at poker. At first I thought about being a grinder and going for Supernova Elite. But he's only at 300,000 points vs 1,000,000 and will probably pull the same profit because he actually learned the game and doesn't just mass table like a zombie. I also feel like I will actually enjoy the game only 4-8 tabling at most and learning the game, it will also benefit my live play too.

You should also get used to the micros for a while... You just don't go from 2nl to 50nl over a short period unless you have studied the game for a while before playing and crush the limit..

[n3rdrage]

Alright, I'm getting pretty sick of the micros. If I have the money(I do) should I just deposit $100 and go to 2c/5c? I'm going up statistically playing 1c/2c, but yet at the end of the day it feels like I'm going no where. I've been hovering around the $25 mark for around 3 weeks(I started with the $10 min deposit).

not everyone progresses fast

even professional players have 50k hands breakeven stretches

[facebiter]

patience is key. Being impatient can be a leak that can cost you tons and tons of %'s of profit. So i think it would be best to practice being patient and grind up to $100. That's a leak that even world class players suffer from. If your breaking even a good thing to do is try picking up on the many leaks the fish at 1c/2c have, write all the leaks down in notes for each player.

One of the most common leaks at micro stakes that a lot of lap fish have is that they bluff the river if you check to them when they miss a draw. 2 barreling top pair on flop and turn then check-calling to induce a bluff can get more profit than 3 barreling all streets because they will fold if they miss their draw on the river and you barrel again.